mysterio

What I understood from what you wrote is that you bought (i.e. paid for) the book, and then the creative team signed it. Sure, the signatures added value. Not disputing that. But unless I missed something you bought the book and then they signed it for no additional charge. That is not selling signatures, that is providing signatures on an item you purchased at no additional markup over what you would have paid at your LCS for the same item. The creative team created value for you at no extra cost to you. That scenario + CGC + eBay = creators thinking they need to charge because they create value with signatures.

I’m not saying you should have walked away, I’m saying you could have. 20 years ago no comic creator would have charged for the signature only. Stan signed for free for decades Did you get any books you already owned signed in the same line? Did they charge extra to sign them?

If you walked away after buying the book you would have paid the same amount, so I’d say the signatures were free unless they charged extra for them.

Rereading this I can see your point and I misread it earlier. Yes, a guy hawking secret sports info for people to buy for bets isn’t that different than a guy selling an auto. They are both selling something that may create value for those that buy. My point was that if both the guy selling those betting tips and Liefeld really believed what they are claiming then they should put their money where their mouth is. Bet those tips and make bank, and corner the market with their own SS books and buy a yacht. Piece of cake.

Nobody charged for signatures prior to CGC that I’m aware of. This is a recent phenomenon.

I’m lost, you said the guy on the commercial betting on their own picks. They can lose money. Isn’t that what you meant? Maybe I misread your point, but if I did how was your point the same as Liefeld’s position in this?

That’s the point I was making. Signing any random copy of NM #98 isn’t going to increase value by the same amount. Signatures add more value in a 9.8 holder than they do to an 8.0 because the condition of the book matters more than the signature does.

True, but that fee is based off of his belief that his signature makes books worth more money. It’s all about capturing some of those Benjamins he thinks he’s generating for others.

How is that not the same as what I said? The people on the commercials would assume risk, creators getting guaranteed money for a signature assume no risk unless they submit books for SS themselves.

That’s my point. The book is going to determine the value. The signature is a factor in that value, sure, but different grades for the book (the preservation) drive value more than the signature does.

To an extent, but the creator doesn’t see it that way. They think their signature = guaranteed value. The creator assumes no risk, the person getting the signature assumes all of it. Handicappers betting on their own calls assume all the risk. So in your analogy the handicapper is not the same as the creator.

Alternatively, buy a graded 9.8 and have it come back a SS 9.6. Would you make money in that scenario?

Ok, then get the data for an 8.0.

It's probably rhetorical but I'll bite. Because NM 87 and 98's are already well known to the market unless he can source them super cheap, he'd still only be making the difference between what he would have to pay for a copy and sell with his signature. This way he doesn't spend all the time hunting them down and money buying and selling them (not to mention grading/shipping fees). He just sits and let people pay him the difference for his signature Exactly, why do the work of finding a nice copy (not to mention learning to grade), paying a couple hundo for it, keeping it high grade, paying admission to the show, standing in line, hoping the creator doesn’t manhandle the book while signing, paying CGC fees, paying shipping, crossing your fingers the grade doesn’t change, then do the work of finding a buyer. Why do all that when you can just charge what you *think* your signature is worth because your perception is that everyone is making money off your signature you’re giving away for free. Because it’s just so easy to sell SS books and buy a Porsche with the fat stacks you’ll take in.

Not quite. Handicappers are still betting on an uncertain outcome, while Liefeld and others think that their signature has a guaranteed effect on the value of a book. The issue here, previously argued by others like @RockMyAmadeus more eloquently than I’ll argue it, is that the value of a signed book is driven much more by the preservation of the book than it is by the signature. Liefeld and others have gotten the impression that their signature turns everything to gold (other than just label color) and that everyone is making bank off their previously free scribbles on a comic cover. They feel they’re contributing significantly to the book’s value. The point I was making is simply that if their signatures are so valuable, then they could capture 100% of that value by submitting and selling SS books themselves. Any artist can do that, and someone like Liefeld can certainly afford to buy some 87s and 98s to reap the windfall. SS value isn’t only about the signature. The value a signature adds to a 4.0 is quite different than it would be to a 9.8. Many books aren’t increased in value simply because they are in yellow labels, and many yellow labels won’t ever be sold by the people getting them done. Charging blanket fees for certain books shows a misunderstanding of the value that signatures create, and trying to sell some SS books may educate creators on that.

Anyone heard anything else about this show? If it’s a “tour” are they planning any other dates/cities?

Next weekend! I’ll be set up.

Quite a few guest cancellations for this show. If you’re going for a specific guest make sure to check the list.

It’s a shame that none of the celebrities will be there on Monday to drive attendance.

Since his signature is obviously so valuable, why isn’t he buying up all the NM #87s and #98s to turn into yellow labels and make zillions if it’s so easy?

ACE Home Page Pretty incredible lineup of guests, but really goofy dates (Sat-Mon)...

They may lobby to get you a strike for that suggestion! I get that they buy tickets, but I do miss the good old days before "professional" cosplaying showed up.

This show will be in the Alamodome going forward. They're getting a lot of complaints on FB over this move.

What do the cosplayers at coin shows dress as?

Home Page Guest list so far: Celebs Michael Rooker Sting Amy Dumas (WWE) Jason David Frank Ryan Hurst Amy Jo Johnson Charles Martinet Sean Schemmel Mark Sheppard Trish Stratus (WWE) Creators Jason Aaron CW Cooke Geoff Darrow Chad Hardin Freddie Williams II Jae Lee Megan Levens B Clay Moore Jai Nitz Kyle Strahm