mikenyc

I got a strike, I deserved it, like every single other person who gets a strike does. Whining about it is ridiculous, period.

All the above rests on the VERY flawed premise that every person who got a strike or warning was violating the rules as obviously as when one speeds. Why is it flawed? Because speeding is black and white."You were going 61. The limit is 55. By definition, you were speeding, even accounting for variances in speed detection technology." Moderation HERE, however, depends solely on your OPINION, and the opinions of your team. Unfortunately, when you refuse to moderate according to your own policies, when you ignore your own policies, when you are radically inconsistent in enforcing your policies... Well. Your assertion that "every single person was speeding" doesn't really hold much water, now does it...? For the most part, people aren't stupid here. For the most part. People know when they're being overpoliced. They know when they are being underpoliced. They can see for themselves whether or not things are being handled even-handedly, "confirmation bias" or not. For you to claim that every single person who ever got a strike or warning was clearly and obviously "speeding" is ludicrous, because it would make you perfect! Are you really claiming you have been perfect in your moderation here...? I know you're not, and I only need Diggler's "nipple" strike to prove it. You didn't even give Diggler a CHANCE to explain, you just struck him, that's that, end of story. It took a virtual uprising from everyone ELSE to get you to back down and admit that you had issued a strike IN ERROR. And if that one example puts the lie to your claim that "everyone who got a strike or warning deserved it", what else is there that is not so black and white..? The hubris! No. It's not. Is it tedious? Oh yes. Yes, indeed. Is it HARD? No. You treat everyone the same way, equally, all the time, and you do it within the parameters of your stated rules. You do this so that certain areas of the board...like comics general, like the water closet, like modern comics...don't become cesspools of personality, where everyone is on edge, with a hair trigger outlook, where every single post that CAN be taken wrong IS, where people are taking endless shots at other people, and they don't even know why. Otherwise...you get this never ending cycle...going on for ELEVEN YEARS NOW...of over moderation, then under moderation, then people complaining because you aren't doing your jobs so clearly that it's painfully evident to even the sunniest board member, then you have to...AGAIN...step in to say "moderation is HARD!!" You may be able to convince most of the people, Mr. Oz...but some people are capable of looking behind the curtain, believe it or not. Hi RMA, From a moderator perspective, I've put the things you have said above in red that are wording or emphasis that inflame other people. I also highlighted quotes you used that I didn't say. You can extend things I said to mean that, but that extension is more about you artificially teeing up a ball you can hit than about real communication. These things weren't necessary to make your point. Practices like that tend to create boards that "...become cesspools of personality, where everyone is on edge, with a hair trigger outlook". If you talk to everyone like you have above I think you will find most of your time at this board or any other a place you go to be a place where "every single post that CAN be taken wrong IS, where people are taking endless shots at other people, and they don't even know why". Hope it helps in your other interactions and cuts down on the need to not speak, and/or feud with everyone. Apart from that, I'll give a one-time response to your points for the general readership. Moderation is not wholly consistent and especially will not appear wholly consistent without all of the information. These factors guaranty some inconsistency and some perception of inconsistency: 1. The tendency of the community to sometimes and sometimes not notify mods. 2. The way that various violations are buried in very large threads. 3. The individual interpretations of a team of moderators of both the guidelines and their interpretation of the specific intent of the posters. 4. The necessity in a thread that is way out of control to pick off the few worst offenders to rein in back in rather than banning everyone. 5. The application of the pattern of behavior (or lack thereof) of particular posters to the moderation decisions. i.e. recidivists get less leash. 6. The fact that some moderator actions (wrist slaps, private warnings) are not visible to anyone but the mods and the offenders. 7. An observer's own variances in interpretation of all of the above, as well as limited attention to the posting patterns of people. Moderation is based on opinion, yes. Just like the verdicts in courts, the discretion of the police, etc.. There are mistakes, yes. You have cited one that was corrected quickly from a number of years ago - I don't remember how many years. I don't think that necessarily deserves the outrage treatment you give it, but then again your opinion of moderation opinions is based on... opinion. Was that english? Probably not. I'm not speaking in absolutes here. It's too squishy a process. I do think that by and large we try to lean towards a benefit-of-the-doubt stance that means that more often then not if someone get a strike, they deserved it. We do get new mods in from time to time and that introduces additional fluctuation. Ccgmod0 is new, for example. If the rules say not to do something, just avoid doing it. It's really not that hard. If you're going to respond again, RMA, turn the volume on the outrage down. It's not constructive.

That's why paying with WU is always a crapshoot. Did you contact other buyers in his thread and see if they recieved their books?

A wardrobe? If you didn't have so many great Fiction House books I'd demand your Man Card be revoked. Nice job. Do you do kitchens? You should see what he did with his bidet.

I don't know where you heard this, but it isn't true. Yeh, it is. But I'm interested - what conditions do you think drive the capture of sales data by GPA? What do you think they search for and where? "My father would womanize, he would drink, make outrageous claims like he had invented the question mark. Sometimes, he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy."

Here's the correlation: the most recent PL cadidates (from April 2012 and newer) and their post count: YUJIRO (added 8/30/12) = 124 Xalechim (added 04/24/12) = 29 Winter Soldier (added 12/26/12) = 7 WDMARVELCOMICS (added 6/16/12) = 1550 vacantpassenger (added 11/11/12) = 509 tangelwood42 (added 11/28/12) = 388 pmahoney74 (added 12/22/12) = 78 picklepuss (added 11/27/12) = 64 phobalicious aka darkness4life (added 07/19/12) = 120 Joey21 (added 5/11/12) = 71 Jackstostart (added 7/30/12) = 1461 Goosie (added 6/6/12) = 34 excelsior1986 (added 9/09/12) = 2076 Campbelljh3 (added 9/14/12 & 1/4/2013) AKA Soup1998 = 528 Babygorilla (added 2/2/13) = 74 50s Horror Buff (added 05/24/12) = 543 56% of the previous years' PL members have less than a 200 post count. I would hardly say that the idea of creating a post count rule for selling is "stupid" - considering over half of the people who end up on the list are people who have spent little time interacting in the community. If the idea of keeping things the way they are is fine with everyone - I have no issue with that. But there is a correlation between post count and who ends up on the PL list. It may not be that big of deal to everyone else, however. What would *really* be helpful is a way to track all sales and see how many PL things actually come up in general. In all things in life - there's bound to be some problems, and perhaps in terms of overall sales - the PL problems might be very, very minor in comparison to the successes sellers experience in the day-to-day happenings around here. A logical argument, supported with facts, board brain cannot compute.

This is unequivocally a probation worthy act of douchebaggery by a regretful seller, period. The terms were hammered out through a volley of PM's. Another clown shoes member, either a typical washer woman gossip or a spiteful buyer who thought he deserved the book, sticks their wet nose in the anus of this transaction. Buyer graciously, yet unwisely, agrees to compensate for a portion of shipping costs. Seller continues raising his handjob status until reaching his climax and canceling transaction. Done deal, and the 30 days should be waived in the event either party clearly states they have no intention of completing a mutually agreed upon sale. Stop being such bleeding hearts, not everything requires extensive debate, some facts are clear and actions should be swift. In my CALtopia my will is severe and punishment just.

Who's a "neophyte"? Is he talking about AF? AF had the bad deal with Supapimp and then this. I don't know. Is this English? Perhaps you need a Chianti prism to understand me. I was empathizing with AF that his past screwing caused him to lay off the boards, only to return and find himself being screwed, part deux.

This discourse has been exhausted, no reliable outcome is expected, the solution is unavoidable, nerd lust must be satiated, burn the neophyte. Sorry that you came back after having a sale situation and now find yourself embroiled in yet another.

Thanks Cheryllnn, I bought your Pook off the bay!! The pictures don't do it justice, it is so cool. I meant to PM but my little brain couldn't retain it long enough for me to act. ::

Just got these back from framing!! Convention Sketch Commissioned this for my daughter, who is 3 and a huge pirate fan.

You will stay single forever if you keep comic book up skirt posters on your bedroom wall.

C'mon counselor, you know better than that, I need to be paid to use my brain power. My cerebrum don't work for free.

You know I never I never seen you look so good You never act the way you should But I like it And I know you like it too The way that I want you I gotta have you Oh yes, I do You know I never I never ever stay out late You know that I can hardly wait Just to see you And I know you cannot wait Wait to see me too I gotta touch you Cause baby we'll be At the drive-in In the old man's Ford Behind the bushes Until I'm screamin' for more Down the basement Lock the cellar door And baby Talk dirty to me You know I call you I call you on the telephone I'm only hoping that you're home So I can hear you When you say those words to me And whisper so softly I gotta hear you Cause baby we'll be At the drive-in In the old man's Ford Behind the bushes Until I'm screamin' for more Down the basement Lock the cellar door And baby Talk dirty to me

That is the entire board and the vast majority of participants. I don't understand how calling out a seller for being a seller constitutes any of that. Unless of course you were directing that at GOT. This was directed at no one, rather a general commentary on the SS community. I personally believe that their butthurt threshold is lower then the general class of comic nerd. Call it passion, call it ferver, call it obsession, call it paranoia, call it excess, call it what you will, the intensity for the good and the bad is amplified.

This SS group is like watching an episode of Days of Our Lives, except with much more drama, whining, crying, belly aching, sandy cooters, man babies, neediness, virgins, complaining, chest pumping, axes to grind, uncomfortable cheese odor, accusations, bad posture, blubbering, back peddling, rabel rousing, finger pointing and lack of female presence. Sorry, you were saying.

There's blood in the streets it's up to my ankles, Blood in the streets it's up to my knee; Blood in the streets, the town of Chicago. Blood on the rise, it's following me. Just about the break of day. She came, then she drove away, Sunlight in her hair. Blood on the streets runs a river of sadness. Blood in the streets, it's up to my thigh. The river runs down the legs of the city; The women are crying red rivers of weeping. She came in town and then she went away, Sunlight in her hair. Indians scattered on dawn's highway. Bleeding ghosts crowd the young childs fragile eggshell mind. Blood in the streets of the town of New Haven; Blood stains the roofs and the palm trees of Venice. Blood in my love in the terrible summer; Bloody red sun of fantastic L.A. Blood screams her brain as they chop off her fingers. Blood will be born in the birth of a nation; Blood is the rose of mysterious union. There's blood in the streets it's up to my ankles, Blood in the streets it's up to my knee; Blood in the streets, the town of Chicago. Blood on the rise, it's following me.

I don't think anyone believes you are a thief or a fraud or anything like that, but not being a complete shyster does not absolve you of any wrongdoing. I am not the quickest shipper myself but I don't make excuses. I believe that if you just admit you were remiss in the handling of returning books and apologized, it would ring more sincere than claiming only one of the many people, who's shipments were delayed for weeks and weeks, complained. You are a passionate guy and take the time and effort to get these opps started, don't let something as silly as going to the PO, be an issue.

But what difference does it make if its a mystery box or a single issue? the difference is a mystery box is tougher to validate. Scenario 1: User A buys Action 1 from User B User A ends up with the stated book, User B ends up with correct ammount of $$$. Pretty straight forward. Issues might be around non-disclosed restoration, or grading disagreements, which can be raised, and dealt with. Scenario 2: User A buys one of 20 mystery boxes from User B who stated that one box would contain a Saga #1 RRP, the rest would be Image books worth $50 or so. User B keeps the RRP and doesnt put it in any of the 20 boxes. User A gets his books(no RRP) and assumes he didn't "win" the RRP, but the other 19 buyers also make the same assumption. How does this get checked? All it takes is 1 buyer to not reveal his mystery box contents for the Seller to say "and thats the one that got the RRP!" As others have said, buy from long standing users you trust and they arent going to sacrifice their board reputation for a few scammed bucks. Buy from a new seller with under 100 posts? Avoid.... Right, I understand that you don't know what you are getting, but you can still loose your $$ the same way you can if you buy a single comic. Banning them just because of the unknown is like buying a raw off of ebay you just don't know. Its not even close to the same. You get a book with a grade and price. A scan is usually provided as well. You can inquire ask questions and pretty well know what you are getting. You can do the same on ebay with a raw book. What you cant do is any of the above usually with a mystery box auction unless its done in an almost transparent fashion which makes it more like selling a lot. Alot of very picky buyers on here. Listen, you walk into a whorehouse and leave with crotch rot, who should be blamed? Much like the Nigerian Mining Minister's wife who needs money to free up the millions for you, if you buy a mystery box, with the possibility of a big money bonus, from a complete stranger over the Internet, your stupidity should be rewarded with a big 'ol serving of schadenfreude. Don't punish the majority for the naive and mentally defective minority.

That is a pleasantly philosophical kind of statement but it doesn't actually say anything. It does put the "passive" in "passive aggressive". Just call me Ghandi then. I like that term. It is a completely overused and inaccurate term but to each their own. You are an idealist if you believe this does not occur with consistent regularity. Manipulating people, prices and to some extent the markets. Quite a few probation worthy activities never make this discussion thread because the offended are "discouraged" from coming here or "encouraged" to go elsewhere. There have been a multitude of comments claiming a boys club. All too often they are simply dismissed. There are a few boys clubs, for lack of a better term, and in all honesty it makes the probation list a joke. Then instead of getting on my case (not just you but all the eye rollers) for not visiting the Modern Sales thread (why would I?) why not DO something about it? It would make an ideal topic for the General Discussions thread inside Forum Only Selling. http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1976814#Post1976814 Because he's one of the Mafia Pov! Jeff wtf are you on about? You are one of the main protaganists. Larry - You ALWAYS 'accidently' disclose how many 9.8's you have of a certain comic. People are nicely polite to you because you are Canadian?? No, you have stock that people want. Your popularity is in your inventory. No stock - no love. Quite a few people don't like you - it's a shame because deep down I think you are an OK guy. Sorry dude, but thats how it is. Playing the "psst - hey mods,wanna tell you a story", come on fella - geez. Beachbum just sells his stuff - no issues, fair and an open seller. You,Jenious and Larry would sell your mothers ovaries for a 9.8 WD #1. Sad but true. 1. Who are you of any standing to call someone out as being a shyster? 2. Your 6 months on the boards affords you the ability to speak for everyone's feelings about Jeff? 3. You are not the Fonzie of the boards yourself my friend. 4. Jeff has been hoarding WD for years and years, his bragging about his 9.8 hoard is not only done in jest, but has been encouraged since before I joined the boards. 5. If you had any experience being a part of this community, other than trolling the free stuff thread, you might learn a thing or two about the way it functions. 6. Jeff was named forum tool long before you decided to be a meanie. 7. Playing nice with others makes your own experience more enjoyable.

Why bring this to the boards if you don't want to release the name of the seller? If the general consensus was overwhelmingly in your support would you then feel comfortable? If you have conviction behind the complaint you should say, this person agreed to sell me these books and then backed out of the deal. Nice and simple, the seller comes and defends himself/herself and then the general conversation ensues, hopefully with a justified resolution. My

PL worthy, probably not. Someone I want to deal with, certainly not. This thread is worthless without naming the seller.

If he goes on the list, there needs to be a way for him to get off the list. If you resell the comics, what options does that leave him? I know it's probably not a popular position, but I'm thinking if you resell them, he's off the hook. The PL isn't about punishment, it's a public place for people who've screwed up to linger until they make right. I don't know Speedy. When I'm selling, I usually need the money to fund some other waste of money... like food, water, gas or my wife. Its should be ok to sell something if the "runaround" is evident. And toyman, I'm not doubting you either... if you say you sent a check and he didnt get it, then maybe that happened. In fairness, all you would have had to do was stop payment on that check, then just send another correct? Easy peasy. But if this is non payment then the majority of us (me and the dogs) feel non payment is PL worthy. I personally want to know this about a person if im the next guy he decides to purchase from... and the PL list is really the only way to know. Heres a way to get him off the list... and I've bought it up as an option to the only person I've ever had to put on the list... Pay whatever the amount owed to a deserving good cause or charity with proof to back up that payment. Right now the Flatrock family would be a logical choice. Of course, theres always the CBLDF or the Hero Initiative that need monetary help too. Just food for munchin' I'm not a fan of the charity route. Yeah, it's a great thing to do, of course. But this is commerce, not charity. It doesn't seem fair to force someone to "throw their money away." They're here to buy comics, let's stick to that. The issue was exchanging money for comics. Why is it fair for the buyer to be forced to exchange his or her money for something he may not want, i.e. the warm fuzzies of charitable giving? I'm still of the opinion that the PL is about getting specific transactions between two people completed. Yeah, I hate charity also. This is the imperfect nature of the PL list. A seller shouldn't be expected to sit on a book indefinitely waiting for a buyer to make good. A buyer should get something for their money, other than a rising Karma meter. If someone should get the raw end of the deal it should be the individual who was naughty. That being said, it should be left up to the two parties involved to come to an agreeable compromise. The issue with that is when one party doesn't want to acquiesce and agree to a PL removal, even after an effort is made to correct the situation. In those cases, the PL list should absolutely be used as a punishment. Bunch of tree huggers in these parts, rainbows and puppies types. If I have to jump through hoops and be stressed out because a seller screws me on a deal and doesn't send my books, why should I be forced to accept future penance. Sometimes there are permanent repercussions to your actions, accept personal responsibility and move on. Sidebar, this is not in response to the above situation, simply the list as a whole. Because that's how the PL works. If you don't like it, or you don't think it'll work in a particular situation, then do something else. Flame them in CG, in all their threads, troll them ... do whatever you want, it's a free country right? But the PL is what it is, and it seems to do a pretty good job. And as we've said before many times, if you're looking for permanent punishment, nominate them for the HoS. The PL is not permanent, it's about putting someone in a holding pen until they've completed their transaction. NOW, GET OFF MY LAWN!!! You New Yorkers have attitudes. sorry mikesf You New Yorkers fold like a tent. :: I want the PL list to be like the Salem Witch Trials. You go on the list, you never see the light of day again.

If he goes on the list, there needs to be a way for him to get off the list. If you resell the comics, what options does that leave him? I know it's probably not a popular position, but I'm thinking if you resell them, he's off the hook. The PL isn't about punishment, it's a public place for people who've screwed up to linger until they make right. I don't know Speedy. When I'm selling, I usually need the money to fund some other waste of money... like food, water, gas or my wife. Its should be ok to sell something if the "runaround" is evident. And toyman, I'm not doubting you either... if you say you sent a check and he didnt get it, then maybe that happened. In fairness, all you would have had to do was stop payment on that check, then just send another correct? Easy peasy. But if this is non payment then the majority of us (me and the dogs) feel non payment is PL worthy. I personally want to know this about a person if im the next guy he decides to purchase from... and the PL list is really the only way to know. Heres a way to get him off the list... and I've bought it up as an option to the only person I've ever had to put on the list... Pay whatever the amount owed to a deserving good cause or charity with proof to back up that payment. Right now the Flatrock family would be a logical choice. Of course, theres always the CBLDF or the Hero Initiative that need monetary help too. Just food for munchin' I'm not a fan of the charity route. Yeah, it's a great thing to do, of course. But this is commerce, not charity. It doesn't seem fair to force someone to "throw their money away." They're here to buy comics, let's stick to that. The issue was exchanging money for comics. Why is it fair for the buyer to be forced to exchange his or her money for something he may not want, i.e. the warm fuzzies of charitable giving? I'm still of the opinion that the PL is about getting specific transactions between two people completed. Yeah, I hate charity also. This is the imperfect nature of the PL list. A seller shouldn't be expected to sit on a book indefinitely waiting for a buyer to make good. A buyer should get something for their money, other than a rising Karma meter. If someone should get the raw end of the deal it should be the individual who was naughty. That being said, it should be left up to the two parties involved to come to an agreeable compromise. The issue with that is when one party doesn't want to acquiesce and agree to a PL removal, even after an effort is made to correct the situation. In those cases, the PL list should absolutely be used as a punishment. Bunch of tree huggers in these parts, rainbows and puppies types. If I have to jump through hoops and be stressed out because a seller screws me on a deal and doesn't send my books, why should I be forced to accept future penance. Sometimes there are permanent repercussions to your actions, accept personal responsibility and move on. Sidebar, this is not in response to the above situation, simply the list as a whole. Because that's how the PL works. If you don't like it, or you don't think it'll work in a particular situation, then do something else. Flame them in CG, in all their threads, troll them ... do whatever you want, it's a free country right? But the PL is what it is, and it seems to do a pretty good job. And as we've said before many times, if you're looking for permanent punishment, nominate them for the HoS. The PL is not permanent, it's about putting someone in a holding pen until they've completed their transaction. NOW, GET OFF MY LAWN!!! You New Yorkers have attitudes.