JadeGiant

Another piece for my Bob Larkin Hulk painting homage gallery - by Paul Pelletier and Rick Magyar. http://www.comicartfans.com/galleryPiece.asp?Piece=1354676&GSub=0&GCat=14768&UCat=14768

In a logical world, that would always be the case. However, if the art belongs to a certain dealer there's a better chance of it going up on the site or on eBay for double the reserve it never hit in this auction. So true, in htraE, everything is opposite. A price not realized means that it is immediately worth double now. If you ask to negotiate downward, the price immediately increases.

Pedigree wasn't even on my radar before this thread but after reading all this, they still aren't on my radar. Avoid Avoid Avoid

This is a fiasco and rather comical. SMH

I am glad I am not a big player in the auction environment! I haven’t bought via auction since the shilling fiasco (except eBay) and the more I read, the more I am not interested in bidding. This “auction house” sounds even more treacherous than HA and the other auction environments. The owner is a disbarred lawyer for deceptive practices? A history of deceptive practices in the comic arena? Throw the heavy coolines presence (arguably, the most deceptive selling practices in the art dealer pool) into the picture and it smells like a recipe for disaster. Ironic choice of name for this business if we aren’t to look at what the owner’s track record. ped•i•gree ˈpedəˌɡrē/ noun 1. 1. the record of descent of an animal, showing it to be purebred. o 2. 2. the recorded ancestry, especially upper-class ancestry, of a person or family.

Agreed, once you pass the point of no return the art is completely undesirable.

Well, that is the Golden rule of collecting commissions

I am no lawyer either, but this is a pattern and seems clear that the pattern is clear attempt to defraud buyers

I would not let it go. I would follow the advice given and pursue the commission with the artist's rep (if they have one). Did you ever see a picture of the piece that was completed but the artist was not happy with the colors? As long you remain factual with how the situation has played out, I don't see a reason why you can't ask if others have commissioned this artist and their experience. Good luck!

Alright, enough bumping this thread (after this bump, this one is OK) ... I keep thinking there is a new podcast!!!

This has been a long time coming but, wow, so worth the wait! More details on CAF. http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=1345459&GSub=115616

This has been a long time coming but, wow, so worth the wait! More details on CAF. http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=1345459&GSub=115616

Great podcast, as usual. Thanks for doing these. Already anxious to hear who is up next.

Ah yes...DOACAM may have been the first. I pity those collectors who are looking to buy from artists whose markets get pointlessly inflated by the Destroyer... any examples of artists who's work has been caught by the 'destroyer'? Good question!

This is a rather broad statement. Sorry, but just because you can see it, doesn't mean that for the right price, it can be obtained. Actually, it does. Whether you are willing or able to MEET the price it would take, well, that a whole other kettle of fish. Again, sorry, no. Maybe that might seem like a good theory but it doesn't reflect reality. I can think of a bunch of collectors with varying levels of collections (smaller collections up to BSDs), and they each have pieces that are "unobtainable" at ANY price (often because they are tied to strong nostalgic feelings). Even in my own collection, there are pieces that literally no amount of money could make me part with them. It has nothing to do with their value and everything to do with factors like nostalgia, the years of effort it took to obtain a piece and/or the years of regret I'd have if I ever let the piece go. If the offer was outrageous enough, they will sell. Again, it may be a price that no sane person would think could ever be made. To obtain the piece, would require meeting a ridiculous amount few people even had access to, much less would actually offer. But it could be done. It may be IMPROBABLE, but not IMPOSSIBLE. But with a "black hole collector," whom you don't even know who they are or what they have, even that remote improbability becomes impossible. No, no, no, no, no, a thousand times no. No matter how outrageous the offer, it's not improbable, it's impossible. I recall a conversation at dinner at last year's NYCC where someone at the table said that he would never sell a particular cover (worth about $25k) since it was the cover to the first comic he could recall reading and that got him hooked on comics. And when asked if he received an offer of $1million on it, he replied in seriousness he still would not sell, no matter how much money was offered. Sorry, such people and views do in fact exist. For the benefit of readers and my own sanity, this is my last post to you on this point. Sorry, man, you'll never make me believe it. All that tells me is that $1 Million wasn't his price. Maybe it was $10M, or $20M. But he has one. I've seen and heard too many tales from people who got a piece from some who "absolutely will never sell this." They met their "price." However ridiculous it is. People say all kinds of things they might think they mean in the moment. I believe that YOU believe those people, who say "I'll absolutely never sell this at ANY price." But that is only because they don't believe anyone would be crazy enough to offer the price it would take to get them to relent. And 99.99% of the time, they will be correct. But that .01% can and does happen once in a great while. I've seen it. I've heard about it. So, you'll never get me to believe as you choose to. And it just gets away from my point that only in a "black hole collection," where you don't know who they are and what they have, does even that highly remote possibility become an impossibility. And that is how you define a "black hole collection/collector." If you can see the art, a possibility exists, no matter how remote, that you can obtain it (minus my "museum exception"). Only in a true "black hole collection," is that impossible. this is bordering on the absurd and you are missing the point. Of course if you could offer world peace to someone in return for art, they would do it. If their family was held ransom, they would do it. We aren't talking about scenarios that would never play out. Time to insert the reasonability clause here for the question at hand.

This is how I have always thought of it as well - that there are 2 primary types. A black hole doesn't have to be unknown to exist IMO

The cabal, that's the next mystery I hope to unravel

This would fit my definition of a black hole collector and would also seem to fit with the definition of the term in general: black hole - noun - ASTRONOMY ~a region of space having a gravitational field so intense that no matter or radiation can escape. informal ~a place where people or things, especially money, disappear without trace. Makes sense and aligns with my thought that I am not a black hole collector.

What is your definition of a black hole collector? Someone who never sells, but will share art on CAF, in person, etc.? In this case we know where the art is but also know it is not going anywhere. Someone who never sells and has no online presence or attends shows, etc.? In this case the art is completely unknown as far as where it resides. Have you ever unearthed a black hole collector/collection? Have you ever convinced a black hole collector to part with something? I have been collecting for 8-10 years and have never sold anything so I started to wonder if I would be considered a black hole collector and wasn’t sure. I have gifted art to people but never sold or traded. I don’t feel like I qualify but I think I might. PS: if you are a black hole collector and have Hulk art that you want to share with a fellow passionate collector (not selling), please feel free to inbox me as I would love to talk Hulk art!

Awesome - will check it out soon!

GLWTS!

Wow. I LOVE this page! Sal at his best! Congratulations!

Congrats - great Wolverine page

Congrats to you as well! It really is a cool feeling to finally snag something you regret missing:) Far sweeter than having gotten it the first time! Thanks. VERY cool to get the piece after the regret the first time around. My situation was slightly different as I was the under bidder on the item and I was willing to go higher so I have kicked myself these years for not bidding my max.

Congratulations! I always enjoy a good art acquisition story that involves a tremendous hunt. This surely qualifies! It’s always great to hear art end up in a collection where it is likely most appreciated by that one collector. And paying “too much” is a matter of perspective – I am sure you don’t consider it to be too much (and glad nobody held you for ransom on the piece). I lost out on a piece in a similar manner 4 years ago and it recently popped up and I snagged it. I was happy to have it, even at a slight premium above market value. Great story!