jick

Right now, $435 seems modestly tempting for a DD#1 9.8, but from my country and our weak currency, it's a pass.  I think in the end, when slabbed comics will continue their nosedive in value, the non-vintage ones will mostly make nice display.  In that case, I still think that Groo #1 Pacific is the issue to have because it is Groo's "first cover appearance."  While Groo Special #1 is much more rare, and is much better composed image - I think Pacific #1 will be the "go to" issue for both collectors and those looking for wall hangers when the values really nosedive.

Speaking of Groo original art, I am actually in disagreement that they did well.  Vintage Marvel Groo covers have sold for roughly $10k but remember that is Heritage and there is a buyer's premium.  So the money the buyer takes home is considerably less maybe $7k or less when you take away buyer's premium and percentage.  Meanwhile, Groo covers from the Dark Horse era are going for only $3k to $4k, so the take home of the seller is actually $2.4k to $3k - more or less.   The Dark Horse era of Groo is already 20 years old, and Groo original art is perhaps the last remaining one up to this day where the lettering is still done on the actual board.

Speaking of lettering, Groo's letterer - Stan Sakai actually sells for more than Sergio's Groo art.  His creator-owned character Usagi Yojimbo's original art sells for considerably higher than Groo.  Then you have Mike Mignola's Hellboy - even his simple pencil sketches non-published sell for roughly the same amount as a modern Groo cover.  Then another indie character - Nexus - has art that sells for more than Groo art.  Finally, consider also that Aragones has been holding original art supply of Groo as he still keeps majority of the complete issues' original art (he is kinda like Walt Simonson or Jerry Ordway or David Mazzuchelli or McFarlane to Spawn) so there is very little in the market.  That should artificially inflate Groo original art prices, but it hasn't.

In summary, Groo CGC 9.8 keys are going the bargain bin way and his original art goes for considerably less than other independently owned characters despite the limited supply.  Either Groo is terribly undervalued (which I doubt!) or very few people really care about Groo.  I guess it's only us.  

If the prices continue the nosedive, I will buy more slabs of Pacific and DD#1.  And if the OA prices maintain but my disposable income miraculously expands, I will definitely get more Groo OA.  All because of my love for the character and not because of some market speculation or false hope!

I am just looking at my old notes, just for the Groo "investors" here.

The population as of GCG 9.8 as of mid-2021:

Groo #1 Pacific = 126

Destroyer Duck #1 = 99

I don't have notes for DD, but by 2022 the population for Groo #1 rose to 174.

Now, we are 2023 and the population is:

Groo #1 Pacific = 193

Destroyer Duck #1 = 157

Also for what it's worth, right now there are eBay BIN's on these issues that are currently not moving:

Groo #1 @$190 and DD#1 @435.

The last DD#1 sale at open eBay auction went for $338 last September 18, 2023 with 4 bids.

The drastic increase in population in both issues is clearly caused by people having their copies graded after that aberration of a result when a DD#1 went for over $1k a few years ago.  But even today, the raw number of 193 and 157 copies respectively is still relatively low for a major character's first appearance from perhaps the greatest cartoonist of all-time.  Groo has also been around over 40 years and is the poster child for independent creator-owned characters.  So the long term possibility could be that Groo can still pickup eventually if his popularity will somehow surge into other media.  If that happens, supply seems relatively low in terms of raw numbers.  Another is the total opposite, and Groo will be what he is - a humor genre character where there is little interest - just like you can buy even 1900's to 1920's newspaper strip original art (over 100 years old) for relatively nothing.

With so much CGC 9.8 Groo #1 Pacific and DD#1 on the Bay, what price do you think will be the fair or low price where one can have the go signal to just get them all?  I think it's still too high now.  I mean if DD #1 were less that $200, I'd probably grab them all...

On 11/14/2022 at 10:20 AM, MAR1979 said:

Destroyer Duck1 now under $600 in 9.8, $500 threshold to be tested next.   My opinion is it will be a $300-$375 book in 3-6 months, which may be is going rate for a while.  I do not think it will drop further. Look for Pacific #1 to ride the downward coattails to find its new level as well.

Groo price levels falling to where they probably should have organically been all along is good news as Groo will be working its way in the hands of true collectors.  Speculators and Flippers had their day one year ago after the nothing burger news of animation exploration rights, but now those days are gone. Long Live Groo!

 

Amen!  Just saw an eBay sale for $565.55 in an open auction for Destroyer Duck 1 CGC 9.8.

I sure hope the Groo Pacifics will drop too so I can hoard on them even more.  Right now they are at $280 in CGC 9.8 without any takers.

I just picked up a Groo #1 Pacific CGC 9.8 yellow label sergio signed. There's only 41 in the census at that grade and no recent sales, so I have no reference if the price I paid at $450 is decent. What's importantb is that it's a price I can live with, even if it will lose half its value tomorrow. I'm more a Groo and Aragones fan than a speculator.

No more action in this thread for two months.

Groo Pacific #1 CGC 9.8 now below $300 in eBay completed listing.  There is a listing for $319 BIN but now moving.

Destroyer Duck 1 CGC 9.8, no sale since that $710 on July.  Current lowest listing is $1,200 and remains unsold.

Speaking of $1,200, I think that money is better spent with Groo original art.  I just got three new drawings from Sergio Aragones, who just turned 85 years earlier this month.

I think virtually all the hype of Groo and the movie rights acquisition has died down, and Groo is destined to be like most other vintage comic strips whose original art isn't worth much.  After all, when we are all gone, do the younger generation or incoming generation of collectors even know Groo?

On 6/1/2022 at 1:06 AM, whetteon said:

Yeah, not paying that much for a duck comic.

That's why I think the Pacific Groo #1 is the comic to get.  Kinda like how it's Hulk 181 instead of Hulk 180 (sorry don't mean to open that can of worms), or how it's ASM #300 and not that early issue where Venom made a cameo (was it #298?).

On 6/1/2022 at 2:28 AM, Bronty said:

Yeah,  I'd much rather buy the PC series or the Eclipse special if I was going to buy groo slabs.   The four page first appearance is neat, but you can't see it in a slab and the destroyer duck cover is hard to look at.

 

It's can't be THAT hard to look at.  I mean it's Jack Kirby inked by Neal Adams - it's not often you get to see two living legends work on the same cover and have the interiors contain the first appearance of comics' longest running independet character.

I haven't visited this thread in a while.  Here are updates that I am aware of personally.

Destroyer Duck #1 CGC 9.8 just sold in open eBay auction for $710.

Groo Pacific #1 sold recently at a Buy It Now for $299.  It looks like there are listings of a couple of those with new registry numbers so I did a certlookup.  CGC 9.8's of this first cover appearance of Groo has now hit a population of 144 copies, still very small.

Is Sergio working on a new Groo book?  It looks like there has been no news on that front although I understand they will make a final installment in their "Gods" series of mini-series.  Serio and Mark have also been quiet in YouTube, no new Q&A's.  However, Sergio has been drawing a lot of new Groo artwork that has been posted in the "Aragones Cartoons" FB page presumably run by his daughter.  I'd say over half the artwork have sold out.  All those with ships have sailed, and most of the ones in size 3" x 17" are gone.  The artworks are fully rendered (aka more than just a sketch of scribble) and are usually in 8.5 X 11 although a few were are 9 x 12 and 11 x 17.  If I recall correctly the 11x17 were priced at around $3000. 

Carsten Laqua - a dealer in Europe who sells Aragones art - has sold out of virtually all his Groo art.  There have been at least two new waves (meaning they appeared in two separate advanced catalogs) of Groo published art that did not even make it to be listed to his website but were all gone.

So while Groo is a niche character, it seems the available Groo collectibles out there (original art and CGC 9.8's) are also so few and far between that they can still get sold out meaning the number of niche collectors are more than enough.

Even without a movie, I don't think Destroyer Duck #1 will continue its freefall because the original art keeps getting sold out.  Groo has more fans than we give him credit for.

Yes, looks like all the Groo hoopla has died down.

Groo#1 Pacific CGC 9.8 with a rare double cover just sold in an auction for only $300.

There are many Destroyer Duck #1 9.8's on eBay now without any movement.

The end of the pandemic has made values of virtually all collectibles crash.

There is no talk about the animation rights.  I guess it's time to check out from this thread and check back in a couple of months.

Been a while since I replied to this topic, but been monitoring the Groos on eBay.

The Groo #1's Pacific that have no movement with the asking prices are:

CGC 9.8 - $495 (listed April 12)

CBCS 9.8 - $449 (listed April 3)

CGC 9.8 - $449 (listed Feb. 23)

The Feb.23 listing started at $499 and has been reduced with still no takers. So the actual real world value should be something significantly lower.

There are also three Destroyer Duck #1's at CGC 9.8 at $1700 and not moving.  The real world price is around $990 as that's what it sold for in April 24 and $999 on March 1 in open bidding.

So not only are the keys showing up on eBay, they are also not being purchased at their asking prices.

There is a Groo Special on open auction, it will be interesting to see what that one will net.

In the meantime, still no word from Mark and Sergio on YouTube and nothing new on the movie animation ights front.  It smells like things are not right on that end.  I mean who would make something called "Did I Err Productions"?  Well, only a Groo fan and it obviously is a company with no animation experience but made specifically to animate Groo.  I am sure they encountered more obstacles and stumbling blocks along the way, hence, the eerie silence.

Looks like the momentum caused by the Groo animation rights announcement has cooled off.

CGC 9.8 Destroyer Duck #1 just had its most recent auction sale at $999, first time it's gone below $1000 since it's high of $1800 months ago.

There is also a Pacific Groo #1 CGC 9.8 with a BIN of $475 that has been parking on the bay for a few weeks now.

Still no new YouTube video from Sergio and Mark acknowledging the movie rights.

On the good news side, if you check their FB pages - Sergio is offering 8.5" x 11" ready made Groo sketches.  More or less, all the ones with a ship have already sold out.

Groo #1 CGC 9.8 was snagged in Buy-It-Now for $439 last week.  But curiously enough, there is another 9.8 there for BIN $474.95 (been there a week already), but no takers.

There is another live auction for DD#1 CGC9.8.  This should be a good test to see how the market value is moving.

There seems to have been no momentum or new news regarding the animation rights or the development stage of it or if it will really even happen.  Thus, maybe Groo can go to a slow downslide and that would be the right time to buy.

I am not sure if I mentioned this already, but a comic art dealer Carsten who sells a lot of Groo original comic art, has sold out of all the Groo covers he was offering.  That sold out months ago, around the same time the animation rights announcement was made.  So perhaps some collectors are already hoarding on Groo original art since not many make it to the open market.

Finally, it's worth nothing that Mark E and Sergio A have not done a YouTube Q&A lately.  Their most recent Q&A did not discuss the animation rights yet.  Hopefully the next one will, so we get a better picture of what will really happen about all that.

On 2/2/2022 at 10:34 PM, MAR1979 said:

My opinion

Generally when a bubble begins to burst on a former hot Copper/Modern book the first to drop is the lower high-grade of 9.6. The 9.8 will maintain for time before it too follows suit.  While it does not answer your question it's along similar lines I guess.

BTW in the situation I mentioned the only people still buying the 9.8's at top price are; the oblivious, the uninformed, the ignorant, or those with more dollars than sense.   During that time is when those trying to manipulate the market on a book tend to go all out knowing it's all about to cave in. Is the $1650 one of the cases, I don't know but it is certainly plausible and explains that alleged sale perfectly.  The manipulation also does not need to be for internet sales but to beef up a book's going rate for private sale or trade.

The same situation has already occurred with Starslayer #2, 9.8's can now be purchased for less than 9.6's were selling for from late Sept - Mid Nov.   It why never purchase a book when hot, never ever at hot market price, is a collecting rule i live by.  I simply move on to another book that interests me.

Totally agree with most of what you're saying here.  I am posting the results of sales here more to document and archive them permanently so I will know the best time to sell what I have.

On 2/1/2022 at 3:48 AM, Jaydogrules said:

$1650 for this one.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175045348407?hash=item28c1840c37:g:aG8AAOSwo3NhpyY-

‐J.

On 2/1/2022 at 10:50 AM, MAR1979 said:

Highly suspect.

 

The last two auction results for CGC 9.8 were $1025 and $1047.  I do agree that the sale for $1650 is highly suspect.

Around the same time, a CGC 9.6 just sold for $202.50, which is lower than the last 9.6 auctioned maybe a month or two ago that netted just a shade over $300.

Is it possible for the 9.6's to be dropping in price while the 9.8's will somehow boom?  I am not so sure.

As a massive Groo fan, regular contributor to this thread, and investor in slabbed Groo comics, I'd like to add more info from recent completions in the bay.

Unless otherwise noted, I usually refer only to the CGC 9.8.

Destroyer Duck #1 CGC 9.8.  Six months ago, there was a population of 99.  Now it stands at 107.  It means people are still digging up and sending for grading minty copies of the issue.  If you read earlier in this thread, it went for a record sale at $1850 in an open eBay auction.  The only other open auction after that yielded a result of $1050.  Maybe up to six months ago, it was selling is the $500 to $600 range.  Hence, the announcement of the Groo animation rights only doubled it.  CGC 9.8 is still the top population.

Groo #1 Pacific CGC 9.8. To me, this may be a better one to get because it's Groo's first cover appearance.  The population six months ago was at 126 and now it stands at 129 so not many submissions.  It was regularly selling in the $200 range before the animation announcement.  The most recent two sales last week were $350 buy it now, and $430 in an open auction.  Consistent with the Destroyer Duck 1 price increase, it looks to have doubled.  CGC 9.8 is also still the top population for this book.

I think the $1850 result was an aberration or a shill.  I think the actual market price is closer to the $1050 it sold for after the $1850 sale.

Right now, there are three Destroyer Duck #1's on ebay listed between $1700 to $1995 with no takers.  But it seems everyone is holding on to their Groo #1's as there are none (or one) on eBay right now.  I will monitor and keep this thread updated as I come across more sales. 

On 12/27/2021 at 9:11 AM, MAR1979 said:

My guess is noticeably more of each this time next year.  Not the first time Groo has been warm but when the dust settles it will again go back to it's full niche status

BTW Groo's rarest early 1980's #1 in High Grade remains: 

Groo Special 1 = 46

For over 2 decades it was most "valuable" single Groo issue in the Overstreet Guide. I believe that only changed a few years back. When Pacific #1 overtook it by a mere 2 dollars.  The print run was far lower on the Eclipse Special than any of the 1980's Pacific or Marvel issues that also includes the heavily printed Destroyer Duck 1. But it's all about 1st appearances now not scarcity...

 

It was the most valuable for the longest time when "print run" was the key.  Now, the key is "first cover appearance" as seen by a slew of other comics.

It seems the pecking order now would be: (1) first appearance, (2) first cover appearance, and (3) some key issue like death or low print run or thereabouts.

Having said that, Groo Special #1 is such a great investment.  There was a seller selling 6 9.8 copies on eBay for $199 each. A couple of people have snagged it but then a couple still remain and the seller has it at $399 each now.

While Groo is very niche, he might become big if the animation rights are well handled.  Isn't Hellboy also niche?  And none of its movies come within whiffing distance of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in terms of box office sales. Meanwhile, anything Mike Mignola Hellboy, even from a simple pencil doodle sell for quite high. 

Groo will have his day!  

On 12/27/2021 at 2:25 AM, DWL said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the Man of Steel mini series one of the first books to use variant / alternative covers?  I am trying to remember when variant or alternative covers became "a thing" and this series seems to be one of the first I recall.

It was also perhaps the first direct reboot of Superman, or perhaps any major A-list comic character.  This is what started a slew of reboots.  I think Superman's original has been rebooted 100 times since this one.

Of course Superman went through an indirect, soft reboot when there was that transition from Earth One and Earth Two crossing over from the "leaping" Superman of Siegel and Schuster to the "flying" Superman -mostly from the Boring to Swan era?

But Man of Steel 1 is the first comic to make reboots fashionable, and it was a template for thousands of other reboots that have since followed - both from Marvel and DC.  So I guess it is a key issue in that way.  And the population is only 74 at 9.8 which is crazy low!

Just as a benchmark, as of today December 25, 2021 (and will probably remain the case at the end of the year) population census ar CGC 9.8 are as follows:

Groo 1 Pacific = 129

Destroyer Duck 1 = 107

I am just posting this as reference to see how it b will grow in 2022 with the announcement.

On 12/25/2021 at 1:20 AM, MAR1979 said:

Low-ish census due to low values in past. Now after decades it's finally worth it to some to submit for grading.  We've seen this before as the census numbers climb on a large print run DC book values will drop as demand sinks.  Yeah in short term especially it will go up, but IMHO it is not a good investment for very long, it will fall below $100 in 1-2 years. It's huge print run Non Batman DC after all....

 

BTW folk I'm not anti-DC, in fact from mid 80's until I stopped collecting in 2011 due to the hubris of Lee, Johns, Didio.  I was a huge DC buyer with my purchases easily outnumbering Marvel + Independents combined. I was a fan of DC's deep rich tapestry until that was destroyed by the aforementioned who trio actions showed they cared merely about increasing their short-term Corporate Bonus amounts at the expense of the future and then current fans. 

On 12/25/2021 at 11:43 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

This book? 

Yes this book.

I just checked census report, there's onlly 74! That could perhaps be the smallest population for a key 80's era Byrne book.

It's actually the special collector's edition version that has a much higher population at cgc9.8 with 191.

So I think this Byrne book is a sleeper. It just crossed the $200 mark for the first time in the last eBay sale and I think it is heating up. It's just that not many are out there and these hardly pop up on eBay.

Man Of Steel #1 by Byrne.. the regular cover. Low census report (I think around 100 at 9.8), and Byrne's Marvel stuff been getting lotsa love lately. His DC Man of Steel hits the nostalgia spot for many. 9.8 already hit $200, I think this has nowhere to go but up.