Heronext

Many sellers of SA books list/ask for 1/2 to 2/3 of what CGC books go for (or auctions end by the same calculus).  Why?

- they want a quick sale

- they don't want the up front investment (fees), wait time, uncertainty, and risk of submitting to CGC

- buyer is willing to assume above, given an attractive price on the raw that makes it worthwhile

- book is often unpressed & even given that, seller often grades conservatively to make sure buyer is happy

Given all that, after pressing, yes, the CGC end-product often ends up twice as valuable as the "raw material"

I'm okay with Gal Gadot signing privates even though it's not my thing

On 7/20/2021 at 2:35 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Don't be that guy.

"Chest compressions!"

Dude just handled all 6 infinity stones. He dead.

He conscious and breathing.

Movie deaths a real pet peeve of mine.  Always Shakespearean

On 7/20/2021 at 10:09 AM, drotto said:

I pretty much loved 90% of it though Endgame

Endgame did not wrap things up in a way I found satisfying.  The Avengers never gelled, never came together as a team, even after 20 films about the destructive consequences of competitive male egos.

And Pepper calmly telling Tony to "rest now" as he was dying?  How about calling an ambulance

On 7/20/2021 at 1:57 PM, Gatsby77 said:

In which The Washington Post questions whether Black Widow’s poor performance means people are tired of Marvel films as a whole.

No

On 7/20/2021 at 1:35 PM, Rhymenoceros said:

I'm going to wait to see the grade before reaching out again 

Good approach

On 7/20/2021 at 1:02 PM, Rhymenoceros said:

 I've emailed and called and no one will tell me what sources or method they use to determine value - only that by submitting I agree to their sole determination of value. Awaiting grade and will update 

How much were 9.8s going for when they received the book?  Has it changed?

Over the years, I've categorized several books into a lower grading tier where it could have gone either way.  This is accomplished easily, honestly and with no sinister motive, by a conservative raw grade estimate and/or internally justifying ignorance of certain pricing & valuation sources.  I've never had any of my submissions adjusted to higher tiers.

Frankly, the value of a book can rise (and fall) dramatically from the time a book is submitted to the time it's encapsulated.  If they tried to raise the tier in a scenario like this, I would contest the change strongly, saying it was such-and-such a value when I submitted it, it's not my fault it takes you so long to grade etc etc.  Likewise if I thought it was a temporary valuation "bubble", I would challenge their methodology/sources for the valuation.

I would probably ask them to justify the decision by citing specific sales or sources.  That failing or not being if interest to you, I would simply wait to see if it's a 9.8, and accept their adjustment if it is.

On 7/20/2021 at 9:09 AM, Gary Strange said:

I don't see how sellers aren't going to just wait 6 days till they actually have money to ship anything, slowing down everything. Thoughts?

I don't think it works this way.  Sellers don't get the money until they ship (& item is recorded as delivered, I believe).  If they wait for the money before sending the item, they'll be waiting forever.  (If I understand it right).

Note, when buying, you can still use PayPal as a payment option.  EBay however does not allow buyers to set it as the *default* option.  You presumably have to select it at every checkout opportunity.  For buying, I recommend continuing to pay with PayPal.  They have a much longer return window than eBay/credit card combination, which is only 30 days.  I realized this the hard way.

This is just the way it is now.  It's worse for sellers, because they used to get their money sooner, but presumably better for buyers, because eBay holds the money in escrow until the item is delivered.

It's also annoying for sellers in other ways, in that you now have to provide more personal info to ebay (that you provided to PayPal anyway). I preferred the old way too.

17 hours ago, Wolverinex said:

First few seasons of games of thrones were perfect.  The last 2 were trash

Agreed, except for that guy with his wife & baby we had to follow around forever

Just think of villains who are important in the comics that sell for a fraction of those that have already broken out.  Bentley Wittman, King Cobra, people like that.

Liked the series a lot.  Biggest issue was, they presented a 'Wow' moment when Kang is killed, causing the timelines/multiverse to go nuts.  Hadn't the writers already used that trick in episode 2, when Sylvie bombed the timeline?  They never really showed the consequences of that.

Many of these shows would benefit from more editing. I'm not sure I've seen a perfect show, other than perhaps Mad Men.

1 hour ago, Wolverinex said:

I thought the time keepers were fake and he made it all up...

2 hours ago, Xenosmilus said:

Were the 3 Time Keepers real and Kang killed them off?

I don't think it's been made clear.  Could be either

On 7/17/2021 at 1:45 PM, MAR1979 said:

Nice Book!  Good to see Pollard getting some love even most of those now seeking the issue have no idea who he is

I don't know much about him either, but I did note reading ASM 194 that the interior art is really cool.

47 minutes ago, Scrooge said:

Please do let us know when you have the money on hand. We do care that you get it back.

Sincerely, thanks for your input. Peace.

Just now, Scrooge said:

Please don't follow up a compliment re: happy ending with throwing shade about the book being at auction. That shade is reflecting back on you.

Glad you got the money coming your way to close this transaction.

I never complimented them.  And thanks for sharing your views on what I choose to post.

Again, fear of dealers.

2 hours ago, G G ® ™ said:

If I received a book I was not happy with

People keep throwing around judgemental terms like "unhappy", "complaining" and "problem customer."

Frankly, I sense fear of dealers and dealers' power.  Last I checked, this is the CGC Collectors' Society.

Happy ending: Sharon just reached out, said they are sending back my money and addressed a few other things.

It makes me laugh when dealers put books in auctions.  It's like they lack confidence in their own ability to sell, or judge a market.  But that's another subject.

Thanks to everyone who listened and weighed in.  I'm satisfied with the conclusion but it sure didn't need to take this long.

6 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

Did you request a refund when you sent the book back, or did you send it back to be reviewed? If you didn't ask for a refund, then the book still belongs to you and the dealer had no business sending you a refund check.

In my convention example above, when I say "say" it refers to something that was communicated via email.  I don't doubt that sellers believed I was returning the book for a refund.  I did not know this would come down to a "possession is 9/10ths of the law" sort of scenario.

As people have said, seller had the right to keep the book upon return back to them.  I'm not disputing that.  However, seller never informed me they had decided that, and that it could not be offered to me again.  It was left open-ended.

6 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

Am I to understand that this dealer listed the book in a Comiclink auction without having it regraded even though he knew that it had sustained damage in the slab?

I have used the term "damage" to describe what happened to the book.  I believed it had been damaged at the time, it could have been damaged.  In fact I could not see the staple through the staple hole when viewing it from the spine side, so I thought, 100%, this cover has become detached.

What may have happened is the following: Imagine you take a legal-size piece of paper, fold it in half, and put a staple in the "spine".  Then, pinch the spine on either side of the staple, and make a tear in the "cover" 1/4 to 1/2 inches long, one just above the staple, one just below, through both the "front" and "back".  Then, poke the staple with your index finger so hard that it "inverts".  It is still attached to the cover, but has some play/range of motion afforded by the pair of tears.

That may be what have happened here.  There could have been additional damage done when the staple was inverted (extension to tears) that would reduce the grade, or maybe not.  What I can say is that I personally would not be comfortable selling this on to someone else without having it regraded.  A professional seller who has dealt in tens of thousands of transactions and has perhaps seen this type of thing happen before?  I can see see how they might be comfortable with the "pop-into-place-and-resell" maneuver.

11 hours ago, Sensei Ryan said:

what was the purpose of mailing the check back to them that they sent you as the refund?

This key event seems to interest many.  I think this is the best way to explain.

Imagine this takes place at a convention.  Seller has book for sale.  It is the first appearance of Namora.  I say, I'll take that please, and pay by credit card.

Seller hands book to a third party to hand to me, say, a collector friend of theirs, and they drop it on the floor.  Book is damaged as illustrated previously.  I pick it up, look at it, and can't believe what has happened.  I'm in shock, and extremely disappointed.  I hold up the book, point out the damage, and ask the seller what they think.

Yep, looks damaged, they say.  Gee, I thought that friend of mine was really good at handing comics to people.  Wasn't our fault.  You can get a full refund.

I hand it back to the third party, who holds it for a while.  Still dumbfounded, I say to seller, OK, I'll take the refund I guess.

While third party is still holding the book, I take out my phone, search the Internet, and can't find another copy for sale.  Seller has his back to me but is within earshot.  I say Hey, on second thought, what do you think you'll do with that book?  If you crack it out (I assumed it would be cracked out and inspected), can I have first shot at buying the book again?  I am confident seller heard.

(Call me old school, but I think given that seller/intermediary failing to deliver to me comic in state it was at time of purchase, seller might feel some obligation to give me some kind of satisfaction by say, considering my proposal seriously and obliging if in any way he can, even if just to say Look, I popped it back into place.  Looks good to me.  Do you want it for the same price you paid the first time?). 

Seller is handed the book, goes behind a curtain, and comes back.  He puts a check on my side of the table.

I'm confused at this point for 2 reasons: 1, I paid by credit card so why didn't they process the refund that way, and 2, didn't he hear me say I preferred to keep the book, somehow, some way?

I hand the check over and say, What about the idea I can keep the book after all?

He says, When you returned this, we're out the fees the credit card company charged us from the original purchase.  When my partner comes back, I'll let him know you want to keep the book and we'll get back to you. 

If you don't understand the statement in bold or its relevance, neither do I. I'm thinking, aren't they the ones who accept credit cards? Aren't they the ones with the liberal return policy? (not that the appropriateness of a return in this situation is in question).  Won't they no longer be out the credit card fees if we ultimately agree to just leave the original sale in place, unreversed?

Even though I didn't understand the thing about the credit cards, I say Hey, I didn't know this thing about the credit cards.  In the future, I'd be happy to pay with Zelle, Venmo, or personal check.  Are you set up to accept those forms of payment?

Sellers go away with the book and the check.  Someone runs up and screams, HEY EVERYONE!  NAMORA IS GOING TO BE IN THE BLACK PANTHER MOVIE NEXT YEAR!

I wait for the seller to come back, but never hear from them again.  Much later, someone tells me they have consigned the book to an auction house.  What I thought was pretty serious damage appears magically fixed.

This part is pure speculation, but maybe sellers thought, This is now a problem book.  Instead of reselling it on our own site, let's consign it to a dumping ground auction that doesn't report to GPA.  There will be no record of the sale.  It will fit right in with the books with problematic back covers consignors hope to pass off to unseasoned and undiscerning collectors. Plus, now certain rumors regarding Namora are spreading, maybe it will sell for a lot more than we got from that other guy. (Not saying this happened, but maybe it did.  If this book had been, say, Grape Ape #11, I think I'd be holding the book now.)

Now, what were my mistakes?  A mistake can only be judged in the context of a desired outcome.  If I wanted to keep the book, was it a mistake to hand it back to the seller, and signal acceptance of the return idea?  That is blatantly obvious.

Was it a mistake to give the refund check back?  Only if they are never, ever, going to give me my money back.  Many boardies say the sellers are good people.  I believe those boardies, and good people would not keep my money indefinitely.  Therefore, I'm confident that handing the check back will not end up having been a mistake.

1. If the max value of your modern book is more than $400, you cannot submit it in the modern tier.  You must submit under Economy tier or Standard, or Walkthrough...

10 hours ago, Robot Man said:

Coming from a guy fortunate to own a nice copy of this book, I can feel your pain. 

Appreciate the words. I have a lot of nice grails.  There will be others.

9 hours ago, Robot Man said:

Me, I would have kept it and tried to negotiate a little. If they said full refund or nothing, I would have probably kept that one and gotton over it. A VERY tough and in demand issue.

Perhaps a visit here when I received the book would have been a good move.  This was a freak situation.  A lot was going on between the days I got the book and put it back in the mail.

Yes I regretted it and tried a Hail Mary pass, but my money doesn't deserve to be held hostage.  It also doesn't make me a "problem customer" which someone richly intimated. 

"[Seller's] poor communication is a bad look," someone said earlier. This is the key takeaway.  A refund to my original form of payment (credit card) could solve this in a snap.

9 hours ago, Robot Man said:

First you send the book back without their consent.

Absolutely not.  Not sure where you got this idea.