WernerVonDoom

Thanks all. Lots to think about. I didn't consider that the old label value would be lost if it came back a 9.4.  It's never been pressed.

I'm leaning on leaving it alone.

Hello All - Would anyone care to estimate the chances of an upgrade if this book is resubbed? It was originally submitted in Feb 2001.Thanks in advance.

 

Just kidding, but.....?

 

2 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

No. It's not a loss. 

Haters gonna hate, but that's not how it works.

Losing customers is a loss. That is exactly how it works.

Just now, Chuck Gower said:

So if I make $10 at my lemonade stand one day and only $5 the next, that means I lost $5?

What kind of math is that?

You do, if you had two regular customers that spent $5 everyday. Then you hired Rian Johnson who pissed in the lemonade in front of one those customers.

15 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

46% rating?

on IMDb.com, which has about 4 times the votes of ‘rotten tomatoes’ it has a 7.2 out of 10. 

CinemaScore which most all studios use for matching up ratings with success was at 89%.

Critics loved it.

And it was the #1 selling DVD/bluRay of the year - despite constant online backlash, plenty of people still wanted to buy it. 

And most importantly - Disney CEO Bob Iger loved it.

 

Force Awakens had home sales of $189M. Last Jedi $83M.

New Hope had home sales of $30M.  Empire Strikes Back $27M.

$100M loss, not counting missed repeat ticket sales and Solo. Disney accountants definitely are not pleased.

3 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

How do you figure?

Episode 8 did 34% less than Episode 7 domestically and about 37% less Worldwide. 

The first movie did much better than the first. 

But Episode 2 did about 34% less than Episode 1 domestically and about 37% less Worldwide. 

Its virtually the same statistical drop.

The time between the first movie of each of those trilogies automatically builds up a strong desire to see them multiple times. 

And realistically both 2nd movies performed about the same percentage down from the first. 

No one lost money - that’s just how the business works. 

 

 

Are you honestly trying to say that if TLJ had an 90% audience rating it would have made the same as the one with a 46% rating?  That the only factor was that it was the second movie?  Come on.

If you want to argue the amount of drop, that is a discussion. But there is no way there was no loss of money.

Kathleen Kennedy has been involved with too many amazing movies to count. Unfortunately, she also oversaw the steaming pile that was TLJ and cost the studio likely $500M to $1B.  If she was anyone but KK, she be fired and deservedly so.

 

7 hours ago, zhamlau said:

So I took a look now that the dust has settled a little at the final numbers for TLJ and TFA. I predicted TLJ would not only lose almost 1 billion dollars off the pace of the last movie, but that it would cause such a fan revolt anything Kathleen Kennedy put her hands on would be boycotted too.

 

Numbers are in, judge for yourself.

• The Force Awakens: (Domestic Gross) $936 million , (Foreign Gross) $ 1.31 Billion........TOTAL: $2.23 Billion
• The Last Jedi: (Domestic Gross) $621 Million, (Foreign Gross) $712 Million.....................TOTAL: $1.33 Billion
• Solo: A Star Wars Story: (Domestic Gross) $213 Million , (Foreign Gross) $179 Million....TOTAL: $ 392 Million

Solo is actually a pretty good movie, like on par with TFA and night and day better then TJL....fans who saw it liked it. But i personally know many fans who didn't want to see it after the "TLJ" debacle of a film. People actually followed through and boycotted the film which many people were laughing at, as if it wasn't possible. Yeah, turns out it was very possible.

For Comparison, Rogue One (also an actually good movie) did over a billion dollars total domestic/foreign.... As a spin off story it made almost as much as TLJ, let that sink in. After Episode 8 however, the fans turned on KK and Disney. Now all future films are reportedly on hold and the studio is trying desperately to find someone willing to take over for KK but all suitable candidates are afraid of the media/twitter backlash of taking over.

So, here we sit. The universe we love has been likely mortally wounded. The product itself is goofy, poorly written, and unrecognizable to fans. The future of it is compromised and its options limited.

 

I think in final review the "fix" (whats even possible at this point) is simple:

• Kathleen Kennedy needs to go. Her judgement and vision are flawed which leads to bad/boring places.
• TLJ must be scrubbed and negated in the next film even MORE then TFA was by TLJ.
• Rian Johnson needs to never be put on true Star Wars again. Give him some hepster stupid side film with the star wars logo that has no tie to the actual main universe and let him fail off in a corner.
• Find a way to undo Luke dying, or make him a HUGE part of the next film like Obi Wan on steroids.
• Find a way to have Leia pass away early (cant have a full digital character) but DO NOT LET HER REVERT TO DEMI-GOD state again, no more Carrie Poppins blowing up bulk-heads with her mind and flying like Space Ghost. Give her a dignified way out.
• Find a way to make it so the hyperspace missile option cant happen again. It would make every space battle pointless. It was on some level the worst part of all star wars combined.
• Let Rose die, she is a poorly written character who goes from zapping cowards running away to potentially ending the resistance to save one dude who she barely knows. She leaves orphans to suffer but risks all to save space horses...flawed and pointless.
• Give Finn something to do other than being a bumbling fool. He almost did something heroic but Rose stole that from him. Every other time its just him failing with fate magically saving him without him actually assisting meaningfully.
• Poe is almost interesting, almost. Tone down his goofy cavalier attitude and make him more aware of what he is supposed to be doing as a leader. Let him grow to be more than a "Bart Simpson with a blaster" character.
• Turn down Rey from a full fledged god to just a normal Jedi Knight. She beats Sith Lords in duels with no training, kills scores of elite force wielding assassins again with no training, lifts mountains with no training, basically could take out Vader in his prime based on her previous acts...all without a lick of training or experience. She is the DEFINITION of a "Mary Sue" and that gets old after 2 films. Watching an immortal all powerful god as a protagonist is boring, you know they will win anytime they want. Change that up.
• Undo the back story of Rey's parents. That's just such a smack in the face. Make that whole part of TLJ a lie or something. Doesn't have to be Luke but has to have some tie to the story.
• Kill Hux...omg i just feel bad for this guy now. Just have him trip and fall down a flight of stairs and out an airlock. He is a clown the way he has been written. Just let him die and replace him.
• Kylo needs to have more of an emotional center. His motivation cant just be "I wanna be like me Unca' Vader!!!" Give him some gravity, let his motivation be "The republic is corrupt, it controls while not actually solving anything. Its weak and wont stand if any real external threat arises (like they have in the books). I must instill order and defense. I must save the Galaxy. Make him believe what he is doing is for the greater good. Makes for a more compelling foil.

 

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

 

 

 

 

Great post! And you can count me as one of those who boycotted Solo specifically because of TLJ.  5 years ago, if anyone had said i wouldn't see a star wars movie in the theater, I would have laughed in their face.  

10 minutes ago, WeR138 said:

If it was more than just  jokes, then Disney wouldn't have had to fire him, because people in jail don't usually show up for work.

But what you seem to be proposing, is that Disney didn't have the right to fire him for some disturbing jokes.

A corporation has the right (and the obligation to it's shareholders) to dismiss any employee that they feel in the long or short term, will cost that corporation money.  It happens all the time.  

I don't get to go to work all week, and then on the weekend make a public tool out of myself, and expect my employer to keep me on the payroll.

I understand that comedy is supposed to be edgy.  It's up to the comedian to know what their employers, or future employers, will tolerate.  

 

Before jail, there could be accusations.  There are none, unlike Harvey Weinstein, who is not in jail either.

Of course Disney can fire him, they can fire him if the CEO doesn't like the color of his tie.  That doesn't mean people (and the cast of GOTG) can't think it is a stupid reason.

If Disney is consistent, Carrie Fisher's scenes should not be in Episode IX

These are JOKES.  There is absolutely zero evidence of anything inappropriate. If there was, it would be a totally different story.  Again, using the same absurd logic, anyone who has told the aristocrats joke in the past should never be allowed to work again. Here's the list of people that should be lumped in with Gunn from the 2005 Aristocrats documentary: 

Chris Albrecht, Jason Alexander, Hank Azaria, Shelley Berman, Billy the Mime, Lewis Black, David Brenner, Jimmy Buffett, Mario Cantone, Drew Carey, George Carlin, Margaret Cho, Mark Cohen, Carrot Top, Billy Connolly, Tim Conway, Pat Cooper, Wayne Cotter, Andy , Frank DiGiacomo, Phyllis Diller, Susie Essman, Carrie Fisher, Joe Franklin, Todd Glass, Judy Gold, Whoopi Goldberg, Eddie Gorodetsky, Gilbert Gottfried, Dana Gould, Allan Havey, Eric Idle, Dom Irrera, Eddie Izzard, Richard Jeni, Jake Johannsen, The Amazing Johnathan, Alan Kirschenbaum, Jay Kogen, Sue Kolinsky, Paul Krassner, Cathy Ladman, Lisa Lampanelli, Richard Lewis, Wendy Liebman, Bill Maher, Howie Mandel, Merrill Markoe, Jay Marshall, Jackie Martling, Chuck McCann, Michael McKean, Eric Mead, Larry Miller, Martin Mull, Kevin Nealon, Taylor Negron, The Onion editorial staff, Otto and George, Rick Overton, Gary Owens, Trey Parker and Matt Stone, The Passing Zone, Penn & Teller, Emo Philips, Peter Pitofsky, Kevin Pollak, Paul Reiser, Andy Richter, Don Rickles, Chris Rock, Gregg Rogell, Jeffrey Ross, Jon Ross, Rita Rudner, Bob Saget, T. Sean Shannon, Harry Shearer, Sarah Silverman, Bobby Slayton, The Smothers Brothers, Carrie Snow, Doug Stanhope, David Steinberg, Jon Stewart, Larry Storch, Rip Taylor, Dave Thomas, Johnny Thompson, Peter Tilden, Bruce Vilanch, Fred Willard, Robin Williams, Steven Wright

Make sure you bring enough torches.

This just in: Disney is not going to include Carrie Fisher footage in Episode IX due to her 2005 telling of "The Aristocrats".

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

4 hours ago, AGGIEZ said:

Exactly my thought. Seems like someone's political affiliation is getting in the way of seeing this as anything more than a sound business decision by Disney. 

No. If there was some conspiracy-theory left-wing nutjob getting conservatives fired for decades-old joke tweets, that would just as disgusting.

And as far as whether Disney made a sound business decision, that is debatable. If they ignored this and let Gunn direct GOG3, how much do they lose to people who boycott?, $25k $50K? $0?  A new director could risk millions.

6 hours ago, RedRaven said:

I'm not sure what your logic is. His tweets aren't reprehensible because of who first reported them?

It wasn't like Cernovich accidentally stumbled upon the tweets and reported them. He went after Gunn personally by digging through and cherry-picking the "worst" tweets out of thousands.

These are jokes. Bad ones, but just jokes from a decade ago. Disney knew about them before hand and is only reacting to an alt-right hit job from a dirt-bag. I find Cernovich 1000x more reprehensible than Gunn's jokes.

Disney really made a huge mistake on this one.  This attack on Gunn was orchestrated by Mike Cernovich, of pizza-gate infamy.  No one should react to this despicable character. The petition to re-hire him has over 230,000 signatures.

There's only one way I'm going to Episode IX - if Luke was a defective clone in VIII. If they want to throw in a whole bunch of evil Luke clones as the bad guys, that would't hurt.

13 hours ago, fantastic_four said:

Make her happier by holding out for a 9.6 that has a perfect wrap.  THAT'S what's really rare on that issue, a perfect wrap.  Most copies of Marvel comics issued that month have moderate to severe front-to-back wrap, with the worst looking like they came from the Arvel Omics Roup.  I can count the number of 9.6 copies I've seen with perfect wrap on one hand.

Arvel omics roup or the Thing's toes being cut off?  Personally, I find the cover better with the slight shift. 

On 4/7/2018 at 7:57 AM, c_mkv said:

Sooo due in part to your sleuthing I skipped the 9.4 and am going up to a 9.6. My wife is not impressed, but thanks again for digging this up. 

My apologies!

On 4/2/2018 at 8:11 PM, c_mkv said:

Great sleuthing/intel Werner. I’ve been hunting down an FF48 in a 9.4 for awhile. While I knew it wasn’t a rare book, very interesting to see how many there are relative to other FF books. 

FF 48 is kind of a perfect storm. Warehouse find, Silver Surfer/Galactus, Lee/Kirby in their prime.  There are so many copies, there were even a couple of years when the price went down on this book in Overstreet.  No chance of that happening any time soon though.

On 11/16/2004 at 12:46 PM, Werner_Von_Doom said:

Update of FF copies in 9.4+ (as of 10/26/04):

 

0 Copies: 169v, 172v, 185v, 186v, 187v

1 Copy: #3, 18, 173v, 183v,

2 Copies: #6, 7, 13, 110v, 170v, 171v, 184v

3 Copies: #2, 5, 12, 187

4 Copies: #1, 11, 17, 29, 37, 103

5 Copies: #8, 10, 15, 124, 179

6 Copies: #4, 21, 23, 25, 30, 34, 40, 51, 117

7 Copies: #9, 16, 19, 22, 27, 39, 120, 125, 176, 186, 199

8 Copies: #20, 31, 42, 43, 56, 115, 127, 184, 189, 196, 198

9 Copies: #36, 101, 119, 129, 137, 163, 177

10 Copies: #32, 50, 66, 79, 138, 162, 180, 191, 192, 194, 197

11 Copies: #65, 116, 132, 139, 170, 185, 190, 193

12 Copies: #24, 26, 28, 45, 49, 107, 136, 141, 143, 174, 195

13 Copies: #14, 33, 38, 90, 104, 105, 126, 130, 135, 142, 147, 161, 169, 181

14 Copies: #70, 109, 140, 152, 164, 168, 182, 188

15 Copies: #58, 80, 113, 122, 128, 133, 151

16 Copies: #63, 106, 118, 123, 153, 160, 178

17 Copies: #53, 85, 88, 89, 94, 95, 99, 110, 134, 171, 172

18 Copies: #35, 54, 62, 67, 93, 112, 114, 144, 173

19 Copies: #52, 69, 71, 74, 81, 102, 167, 183

20 Copies: #75, 92, 96, 145, 175, 159

21 Copies: #47, 55, 91, 131, 148, 154, 165

22 Copies: #41, 57, 155

23 Copies: #68, 72, 87, 149, 158

24 Copies: #83, 84

25 Copies: #77, 86, 98

26 Copies: #97, 111, 146, 150

27 Copies: #82, 166

28 Copies: #200

29 Copies: #46, 61, 121, 157

31 Copies: #64

33 Copies: #60

34 Copies: #73, 108, 156

35 Copies: #76

39 Copies: #100

41 Copies: #78

52 Copies: #44

75 Copies: #59

100 Copies: #48

 

13+ years later and only 1 more FF #1, 3 more FF #3s, and still no #187 variants.  Issue #59 passed #48.  Issues #175-#200 have lower counts than they probably should because people tend to send in 9.8s/9.6s rather than 9.4s. I didn't include the annuals way back then, but overall they seem to have really low counts.  

 

Number of 9.4+ Copies (Universal)

0 Copies: #187v

2 Copies: #185v, 186v

3 Copies: #169v

4 Copies: #3, 183v, 184v

5 Copies: #1, 172v

6 Copies: #173v

8 Copies: #6, 7, 8, 11

9 Copies: #18

10 Copies: #2, 110v, 170v

11 Copies: #13

12 Copies: #171v

13 Copies: #37, Annual 9

14 Copies: #5, 17, 23

15 Copies: #Annual 2, Annual 10

16 Copies: #15, 31

17 Copies: #40

18 Copies: #29

19 Copies: #4

20 Copies: #12

21 Copies: #10, Annual 14

22 Copies: #27, 34, 51

23 Copies: #9, 16, 19, 20, 25, 32, 43, Annual 12

24 Copies: #42

25 Copies: #117

26 Copies: #Annual 7, Annual 13

27 Copies: #22, 50, 162

28 Copies: #21, Annual 1

29 Copies: #14, 45

30 Copies: #187

31 Copies: #Annual 8

32 Copies: #36

33 Copies: #177

34 Copies: #30

35 Copies: #38, 103, 124

36 Copies: #39, 90

37 Copies: #Annual 3

38 Copies: #33, 49, 179, Annual 6, Annual 11

39 Copies: #24

40 Copies: #26, 28, 56

41 Copies: #66, 163

42 Copies: #161

43 Copies: #101, 107, 120, 184

44 Copies: #115, 153

45 Copies: #128, 137

46 Copies: #147

47 Copies: #53, 127, 138, 169

49 Copies: #52, 164

50 Copies: #104, 188

51 Copies: #35, 65, 160, Annual 4

53 Copies: #70, 186

54 Copies: #47, 57, 79, 136

55 Copies: #165, 168, 196

57 Copies: #85, 139, 190

58 Copies: #41, 174

59 Copies: #105, 135, 151

60 Copies: #119

61 Copies: #80

62 Copies: #81

63 Copies: #116, 125, 141

64 Copies: #63, 96, 109, 110, 176, 185

65 Copies: #113, 130, 192

66 Copies: #55, 132, 180, 182

67 Copies: #71

68 Copies: #198

69 Copies: #145, 189

70 Copies: #144

71 Copies: #126

72 Copies: #74, 134, 154

73 Copies: #68, 102, 152

74 Copies: #172

75 Copies: #54, 106, 193

76 Copies: #75, 142, 171

77 Copies: #61, 111, 129, 143, 155, 159, 195

80 Copies: #99

81 Copies: #93, 94, 194

82 Copies: #69, 191

84 Copies: #88

85 Copies: #62, 133

86 Copies: #58, 89, 140, 181

87 Copies: #46, 84, 157

88 Copies: #72, 197

89 Copies: #87, 118, 167

92 Copies: #122, 175

93 Copies: #123, 200

94 Copies: #83, 149

95 Copies: #92, 98, 146

96 Copies: #112, 131, 178

97 Copies: #91, 158

98 Copies: #148

99 Copies: #77, 82, 170, Annual 5

100 Copies: #156

101 Copies: #173

104 Copies: #95

106 Copies: #150

111 Copies: #67, 183

114 Copies: #64

115 Copies: #114

120 Copies: #73

124 Copies: #60

126 Copies: #86

127 Copies: #97

130 Copies: #108

132 Copies: #199

133 Copies: #78

135 Copies: #76

147 Copies: #166

149 Copies: #100

157 Copies: #44

168 Copies: #121

233 Copies: #48

286 Copies: #59

 

 

Increases from 10/26/04:

1-50: +1056 (538 to 1594)

51-100: +3208 (1090 to 4298)

101-150: +2798 (732 to 3530)

151-200: +2817 (714 to 3531)

Variants: +48 (10 to 58)

All: +9827 (3084 to 12911)

 

Books that have fewer copies than surrounding issues:

3, 11, 18, 23, 29, 31, 34, 37, 40, 42, 43, 45, 50, 51, 66, 90, 103, 117, 124, 162, 177, 179, 187

 

 

Books that have more copies than surrounding issues:

4, 14, 24, 26, 28, 35, 41, 44, 46, 48, 54, 59, 60, 61, 64, 67, 73, 76, 78, 86, 97, 100, 108, 114, 121, 150, 156, 166, 173, 183, 199

 

Top 10 Additions:

#59 (+211)

#121 (+139)

#48 (+133)

#199 (+125)

#166 (+120)

#100 (+110)

#44 (+105)

#97 (+101)

#86 (+101)

#76 (+100)

 

 

Top 10 Lowest Increases:

#187 35 Cent Variant (+0)

#1 (+1)

#184 35 Cent Variant (+2)

#185 35 Cent Variant (+2)

#186 35 Cent Variant (+2)

#3 (+3)

#8 (+3)

#169 30 Cent Variant (+3)

#183 35 Cent Variant (+3)

#11 (+4)

I really enjoyed the current X-Files reboot.  Mulder and Scully have given up and are living in a Milwaukee suburb.  Skinner spends the entire season trying to convince them to return to the X-Files, with no luck.  In the last scene, Mulder and Scully fall into a hole.

I thought this was a much needed, brave new direction for the series.

There is no possible way that a good Star Wars movie with the return of Luke Skywalker doesn't  get 90%+ of the Force Awakens.  Hell, a movie with no dialogue with Luke dicing up bad guys for two hours would have made as much as TLJ.  No exaggeration.

3 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

This is going to happen a lot as we age. These big studios are going to target the younger audience and not try to appease us 40 something plus year olds. You can't blame them from a business perspective .

  Reveal hidden contents

I trully felt sad the way Luke threw the saber away, but I knew that was a symbolic moment that the torch was being passed to the younger generation. 

 

Disney would have ended up pocketing an additional $200-$500 million with a good movie that appeased the older fans.  So, I do blame them from a business perspective (as well as a personal one).