zhamlau

Going again, will be nice to stay there versus the Empire. That place sucked room wise.

well I wouldn't call it an "outlier" price example because that implies its like a normal 4.5. This is a 5.5 hiding in a 4.5 case by all appearances. Had it been a standard run of the mill 4.5 selling than yeah. But this appears to the bidders to be a pretty clear under-grade and they are treating it as such. They are bidding as if it will get 5.5, not that they want to set a new price for a 4.5 cause "they gotta have it". Its gonna get cracked, maybe pressed, and resubmitted based on the bidding we are seeing. I agree with you its a rare circumstance if that's what you mean though.

Just saying that in the last 22 years the man has done a total of 2 interview and published 6 total drawings for various charities and for established cartoonists friends of his...As far as ive seen thats it. It would be hard to imagine that man would have contact info anyone reading this could acquire or that he would be willing to do interview 3 or drawing 7. Not saying it cant happen, but just its not likely.

And its a unique circumstance that rarely will come up. Outlier prices on standard in grade copies I think have value. But this guy isn't really a 4.5 unlike the vast majority of CGC books that are the grade they report to be (and I'm not talking a half grade off). If equal quality 4.5's come up and one sells in public auction for 30k and one for 24k within weeks of each other, that is telling a story that has consequences. Ill listen to that. It might not be the rule going forward but it didn't happen in a vacuum. But when one book is a 5.5 hiding in a 4.5 case (which is very rare obviously) than its so different it shouldn't even be considered in the discussion.

The issue is the man is beyond selective with his projects. He stopped doing the most popular strip of the decade and took many sabbaticals because of stress and lack of desire to create inferior or "corporate" type work....also being worth 1/2 a billion dollars which could be brought to over a billion if he allowed character licensing will make it hard to get him interested in a project. You would have better luck doing a deal with Mark Cuban than Watterson.

But i think the idea on this one is that its pre-press allowed graded a 4.5, and it was graded brutally hard judging be appearance. If this is as it looks its gonna be a 5.5 with ccs pressing so they are bidding accordingly. If they think that I bet its going to 30,000 on final bid.

I dont think it sucks the more i look at it. Its a good drawing and it feels very miller esque...but modern Miller. If this goes to auction, maybe 20k because its technically a dark knight series cover by miller, and its well done for what it is?

5.5 sells 41,500 6.0 sells 43,500 6.0 sells for 42,000 Was this book undervalued for so long or are there just that many more folks playing the comic market now?

I dont see putting 55k into a brand new super busy cover from a so-so series with a million variant covers on the market now.

Oh Man, its hard for me to take offense :-) Besides i totally knew were you were coming from. I think You make very solid points from start to end. Hell all im doing is speculating. Also i could have that recency bias going on, seeing how much AF15 has moved in the last 3 years I might be pulling out ranges that just aint gonna happen. As it stands, ill stay by this one. I full expect a 9.6 AF15 next time it sells to hit 2million (or very d-mn close). Call me crazy, but just watching what lower grades are doing across the board I think that same appetite exists in the ever expanding speculator class that is taking over parts of the hobby. Ive seen it in comic art, i would assume its happening here too. Again, fun topic.

Agreed on you analysis of percentages, what i was saying was that it was the price was 300% of the original price. Its not that math was hard its just there was a misunderstanding of what we were discussing :-) As for their being only one at the time, I wonder about the idea you put forward if it can be the sole justification of the price. Was the market really unaware there were multiple copies out there or could be that would grade a 9.6? I mean, its a super common book and as we have seen the population has exploded seemingly since then. Did someone bid a lifetime of earnings based on thinking "ill have the only one ever"? As for GPA, I've heard the argument before on private sales being much different that public sales, but I was going off of GPA cause its a quick easy to quantify no questions list people could see. I like the idea at looking at top 3 or so copies of each because the numeric grade almost doesn't matter its about collector/investor desirability for the book its just what to people want. I really think seeing the percentage increases we are seeing in much more common easy to buy copies will play themselves out in very high dollar ultra rare copies as well. More buyers of course for the "commons" below 40k, agreed, but there are probably also more players in the market now for the 7 figure buys today. Such a fun topic. Man i wish i could afford to buy more than one of these books lol.

Fair enough there are some golden age firsts that can out pace it on the straight away. But when you look at the numbers graded versus price on these books I think the story gets more complex. AF15 crushes each of these books in two areas: number of copies on the market graded and price paid for highest copy. I would say on some level this proves the book actually vastly outperforms all other books when taken into consideration ease to get one relatively speaking and for high grade copy potential value. That $1.1 million price occurred back in 2011 almost 6 full years ago. If you take a look at an AF15 5.5 for example. It went in that same era for $13,000 US, it now goes for $33,000 and we have had a confirmed sale of $41,500 last week. from high in 2011 to high in 2017 (just the start of the year also) its gone up over 300%. I'm sure if the highest known graded copy came up for sale now it would do about $2 million dollars. I don't think the highest copy of any of the books mentioned would go for that much, even the AA16 which i think has a 9.4 putting it more in line with top end AF15 (I of course could be wrong because speculation is just that). Depending on how you define "out perform" I think AF15 stacks up favorably to any book other than Tec27 or Action 1. Im not even looking at the ROI year after year which for the AF15 is leaps and bounds over any of these books. Issue-------------Highest Price Paid----Number of graded copies Batman 1-------$567,000 (2012)-----------------236 copies graded Superman 1---$358,000(2016)-----------------129 copies graded Marvel 1--------$227,000(2010)-----------------59 Copies graded ASC 8------------$411,000(2016)-----------------141 Copies Graded AllAmer16-----$216,000(2013)-----------------47 copies Graded AF15-------------$1,100,000(2011)---------------2656 Graded Copies Now, to be fair many of these books don't go into the 9's grade wise. But I think that's what helps the lower valued books price wise. The 5.5 for superman for example blow away the price of a 5.5 AF15...however that 5.5 Superman is the highest graded copy sold according the GPA (and 3rd highest in existence from what I read) so its not fair to compare it to the 230th best example which the average 5.5 is. Anyway, fun discussion. I'm still shocked at what this book does. Hell at this rate qualifiers removed it might end up straight up number 3 in the next few years. If all of these books had the highest known graded copy go up for sale, would the AF15 beat them all? That i think is key. Because that's the level playing field. Only 1-3 copies of each book in highest grade, curve flattens out and just straight fan desirability comes into play. Im thinking the af15 would win against any of these, no? Oh well, its a fun topic!

I think comparing the 1950's era of hockey to that of 16 year old CHL caliber players isn't overly fair. For one, the level of physical violence and checking in those games would destroy most 16 year old's today. Getting raked into chicken-wire elbows first by a guy wearing hard plastic elbow pads will pretty much end the desire to play of most 15-16 year olds. They grew up wearing full face shields and 20lb of protective gear. Put them into a game where most guys didn't even wear shoulder pads let alone helmets, you will see a different game occur. Put most 16 year old goaltenders into a game where they cant wear a mask and their pads are now only like 7 inches wide compared to 11 and they have no knee stacks (so you can feel cold impacting pain each time you drop down to block a shot low), they would be eaten alive. Also, the skaters didn't use Carbon Fiber sticks with that insane power creating flex which allows for that huge booming shots they have now. Modern sticks allow for not only much more powerful shots but also much more accurate passing. Also, the 1950's NHL had 6 teams to choose from and like what 12-15 minor league teams of note? The level of competition to even make the Minors was fierce, and to be one the 130 NHL roster players that existed at any given point was insanely hard. Nothing was watered down like it is today and the nearly 700 roster players going in night in and out in the league. Everyone who made the feeder minors and the big club was elite, they had to be competition was fierce and jobs were scarce. If you saw NHL action in the 1950s, you were elite. I don't think its fair to compare era's when you look at gear changes, rule changes, and officiating changes. Modern 15-16 year old's playing the 1950's game wouldn't eat alive the top 120 players in the world in 1952, at least in my opinion.

This book seems to have shades of 52 mantle to me. It just so outpaces everything else because its been accepted as the most important piece in the hobby to own along with Tec 27 and Action 1. Isn't it true in grade the only books to outperform it are Tec 27 and Action 1?

Honestly the only reason he isn't 1 is because of his knees and its impact on shortening of his career. Talent wise no one can argue against him.

How you define Gretzky as the greatest really depends on how you define "greatest". Statistically of course, he had more assists than anyone else has points. Had he not been credited with scoring ONE goal in his NHL career he would still be the all time points leader. But an argument can also be made that his game was seriously lacking in a physical element. I'm not just saying fighting (think he only had 2 fights in his life), but overall physical play and checking which is a major part of the game he wasn't very good at. He just didn't do it. He had other guys like Semenko and McSorley basically protecting him and roughing up anyone who managed to even check him hard. That entire team was designed to give him every opportunity to score without interference. It was a good move they won 4 cups with him and that model, but it also really helped to inflate his offensive numbers. He only scored 50 goals one time after leaving Edmonton in the prime of his career. He scored a lot, but he had a LOT of help getting there in the highest overall scoring era the sport has ever seen. Hell Jimmy Carson and Craig Simpson had 50 goals seasons in that era (and oddly both played on Edmonton too at one point in their careers). Everyone was scoring in the 80s (hey now!). Offense was nuts when he played, no one touched the guy allowing him to score or set up goals at will, and the entire team was stacked with talent making his life easier. When he left that team his numbers came back down to earth (good but inline with other great players of the era). HE WAS STILL AWESOME and easily 2nd best of all time...but if talking entire game he wasn't number 1. I would say the best overall player in the NHL was Gordie Howe. IF you want I can go into his numbers and how in the ERA he played in his prime even having being a 50 goal scorer in the league was rare at times. I will just say this...He played NHL hockey in 5 different Decades...and every year he played he was either the best or one of the best. That fact alone to makes it hard for me to not say he was the best. Consistent total game performance during 5 different decades...mind blowing.

8k a page. Based on current prices you could break it up sell it off and keep the title and that good fight page for free.

Clearly by someone with cat-like reflexes, devilish good looks, and a knack for finding guys selling art for under 1/2 market.

I won the end splash for Worlds Finest 300. It was a lot but i just couldnt let it go, never seen anything quite like it.

As always, this auction is defined by the last 30 seconds. It appears Micronauts finally has found a home with collectors, prices keep moving.

I got my book i showed earlier back from pressing and grading. Came back better than expected at 5.5! Was waiting for book in hand to have pics. Forgot to get the pic before shipping so im using my limited camera skills. Not sure how they get them so clear, wouldnt even scan well, so this is what you get...huzzah! Best book in my collection.

Well book came back from pressing and cleaning (used CCS, wasnt cheap but didnt want to take any chances in reshipping). Got what I had hoped for, 5.5 OW/W pages. I knew for a few days but I wanted to wait til I had book in hand, never wanna jinx it. Anyway, HUZZAH! My favorite comic in my collection. Sorry about the pic, Small snafu they forgot to get the pic before shipping so my sad camera skills are going into play here.

The FF 1 went for 90k. Over the last 5 years there have been 3 tracked sales. 2012=145k 2015=143k 2016=132k 2017=90k Clearly a trend of diminishing interest in stark contrast to other major keys of the ERA. I think not having a continuing support book and a series of bad films has hurt FF. Its funny because FF original comic art sells really well I've found.

4.5 ow/w

even with a few minor chips im surprised this book didnt get 7.0-7.5 Thats such a beautiful copy.