Jaydogrules

I'd be curious to see if either of them could get that range currently. Absolutely. A 9.9 WD #1 just sold for $12k yesterday, and a 9.8 ASM 667 sold for $7300 last month (first copy to come up in 3.5 years). -J.

This is what I've been doing for the past few years only applied to football cards (Yes I'm a die hard Seahawk Fan). But collecting autographed Russell Wilson rookie cards has started to become boring as I have most of what I want. Over the past few years I've invested and sold smart enough to wear I currently have about 2 grand in Autographed Russell Wilson Rookie Cards that haven't cost me a dime. Now trying to apply the same logic back into comics has proven somewhat more difficult than in sports cards. The markets I think are a lot more stable in sports cards and much more predictable vs comics which seems to have a ton of volatility one minute your 9.8 is worth $600 two weeks later its dropped a few hundred bucks and you're stuck. It's made me very reluctant to really want to pull the trigger on any big dollar items and one of the reasons I found my self on this board hoping to get an inside edge on trends or at the very least a better understanding of them. With that being said it almost at this point in time seems easier to just continue buying and selling cards and taking said profits into the comic arena where if I fail at least in the end I lost nothing. With sports cards, there is a connection between value and the real physical world. Players actually exist, and actually play sports. You can hype up players to a certain extent, but ultimately, it's anchored in reality. So if a player is good, their cards should be worth more and a player who has never been in the majors should be worth less? Definitely not the case. Because a person, anchored in reality, has given their OPINION. I see.... Transitioning that into the comic book world I almost feel like I need a crystal ball to understand what will hold value and what may one day become valuable. I do like to read comics so at least I can buy what I like to read with the hope it may one day be worth something. But this doesn't allow me to buy / sell to the point where I can make enough to afford the comics I want for instance Spawn #185 B/W Sketch or the Spawn #222 Kudranski Variant. The comparison you just made is equivalent to key first appearances in comics. Some may live up to the hype, some may not. There is no sure thing in either. I don't think there are any Moderns selling for $5-10k like in cards. There are. 9.8, ASM 667 Dell'otto, and Walking Dead #1, 9.9 to name a couple... -J.

That is also likely a QC issue. CGC slabs a lot of books. As Vintagecomics keeps reiterating, ANY glue on a post-1950 book, regardless of perceived intent, is an automatic PLOD. Same goes with colour touch. Any SA book with "small amount of colour touch" on the label in a blue label has also slipped past QC (I have seen a handful of those as well). -J.

Not disagreeing with you Roy. But is this dried glue serving a purpose? The residual from the removal? It's possible the glue was removed prior to have the book in the blue label. The policy hasn't changed. If there's enough (or any) glue on the book to warrant a notation, it's a PLOD. More likely than not a QC issue. That book is going to be a hot potato until someone finally decides to break down and have the glue removed (if it can be without completely defacing the book). -J.

This is something that you have said that I do agree with. I have always stated that showcase 30 is certainly not a "key" or relevant nor important book for anyone other than diehard Aquaman fans or SA Showcase completionists. MULTIPLE prior appearances in BB and Adv 260 before that revamping his origin seals its fate. (No offense intended to those who are among that group of collectors and are fans of the book.) -J.

I can't find the "small drop of glue" when I look at the pics. Can anyone else see it? That's really a horrible notation to have on your label. I would want the glue drop removed (so that notation would go away), but I'd be nervous about a big grade drop. I actually think the book looks really nice except for the MC. That's a pretty big price drop for MC. I'm glad the 2 I own don't have the chipping. Does anyone know the percentage of AF15s that have MC? Is it 50%? More? It doesn't matter. ANY glue on a silver age book (or newer) is an automatic PLOD. VintageComics is correct, this is a CGC quality control issue and that is reflected in its price. Assuming the glue can actually be removed without taking a BIG grade hit (something I'm assuming would have been done prior to it being consigned, if it was remotely possible), it would probably be lucky to get a 5.5 blue label, even with a relatively small scrape off the cover. -J.

I don't like saying negative things about books before auctions are over, but yes, not only was it a weak 6.5 with Marvel chipping, the glue on that book should have had it in a PLOD holder. No SA books can have glue and not be a PLOD. That exception is only extended on intermittent occasion to GA books (though it shouldn't be there either). That price pretty clearly reflects the likely grade hit that book will take to remove the glue. -J.

One book- Brave and Bold 28- Also predates Showcase 30 and is also Aquaman's first SA cover appearance, in addition to being first JLA appearance. -J.

I think so. The value seems to have settled in at around $275. If you wait for someone to list one in an open bid though you can probably get one closer to $210-$220. Yeah the market flood did nothing for the book (obviously). But at the same time, the market tends to have a good memory for past price points for books. All things considered, it's probably a fairly innocuous gamble at where it is now. -J.

no one said variants from the big 2 were great either. All the ones that people love on here, or that your buddies on cBSi have shilled, were worthless before as well. That's kind of the point. Anyone of those 1:100 variants selling for nothing that you linked to, could be multi-hundred books tomorrow if the shill horde wipe them off eBay, write cBSi article about them, and then have people create appreciation threads for them. In fact, your link is a great explanation of the whole thing. Store variants hold up even worse than big 2 variants, so if big 2 variants have no one interested in them and they sell for that, imagine what store variants will sell for once the demand is gone Is it really necessary to have this identical conversation taking place across 4 different threads? -J.

+1 There are a few DF ASM variants that I kinda like but still haven't gotten around to buying because I don't view them the same as I do other ASM variants (ie the "real ones" from Marvel). They just feel less "must have" and more discretionary to me. There are also a few big money con variants that I am okay with not owning for the same reason. I think the reason the 1 per store Venom 1 variant unexpectedly took off (or "heated up", if you will, to get the thread back on point) is because it's from Marvel and not one of the plethora of store variants, even though some of those are rarer and have much, much better art. -J.

Joe's Schmoe's super-fantastic ultra-rare virgin-led-foil variant, only 50 copies printed, is still just Joe Schmoe's variant. Big Con variants that the publishers themselves produce, and dont have 16 cover versions, are far more legitimate. It's not that complicated a concept. If you made the variant it's worthless, if Marvel made it, its worth something. But still, the convention organizers are the ones who commission the variants from the publisher (regardless of the name or size of the convention ) in the identical fashion that retailers do, often in similar quantities and using re-purposed art or alternate versions of the same art as well. So really it is a distinction without a difference. Unless I'm missing something..... -J. If you're talking Big 2, they are typically commissioned and / or approved by the big cheese. If you're talking a Myrat Michaels Dead Pooh, then yes. That's a "home brew". I'm just trying to figure out if CBT is essentially saying that , if it didn't appear on a Diamond retailer order sheet, it's not a "real variant". Not saying that is an entirely invalid opinion , I know a lot of guys who feel that way. If that is what he's saying though , then con exclusives are out, retailer exclusives are out. What about RRP books though ? I guess since those are technically also distributed by Diamond via the publishers directly (and not commissioned by some outside shop, convention or other agency) as a "thanks for coming" surprise freebie, those would still count. Just musing... -J. At one point, ComicXposure had variants listed in the Diamond Catalog and distributed through Diamond, (do not remember which book though) So, since it did go through Diamond, and is was distributed by Diamond, but was also a store variant, would this count as a real variant or not? Also, what about the PX (Preview Exclusive variants) do they count as real variants or not? Just curious? I think the logic would be those aren't real variants because they are store variants. I think the criteria is, distributed by Diamond and via the publishers directly (ie, NOT commissioned by an outside agency, shop or con). -J.

Joe's Schmoe's super-fantastic ultra-rare virgin-led-foil variant, only 50 copies printed, is still just Joe Schmoe's variant. Big Con variants that the publishers themselves produce, and dont have 16 cover versions, are far more legitimate. It's not that complicated a concept. If you made the variant it's worthless, if Marvel made it, its worth something. But still, the convention organizers are the ones who commission the variants from the publisher (regardless of the name or size of the convention ) in the identical fashion that retailers do, often in similar quantities and using re-purposed art or alternate versions of the same art as well. So really it is a distinction without a difference. Unless I'm missing something..... -J. If you're talking Big 2, they are typically commissioned and / or approved by the big cheese. If you're talking a Myrat Michaels Dead Pooh, then yes. That's a "home brew". I'm just trying to figure out if CBT is essentially saying that , if it didn't appear on a Diamond retailer order sheet, it's not a "real variant". Not saying that is an entirely invalid opinion , I know a lot of guys who feel that way. If that is what he's saying though , then con exclusives are out, retailer exclusives are out. What about RRP books though ? I guess since those are technically also distributed by Diamond via the publishers directly (and not commissioned by some outside shop, convention or other agency) as a "thanks for coming" surprise freebie, those would still count. Just musing... -J.

Joe's Schmoe's super-fantastic ultra-rare virgin-led-foil variant, only 50 copies printed, is still just Joe Schmoe's variant. Big Con variants that the publishers themselves produce, and dont have 16 cover versions, are far more legitimate. It's not that complicated a concept. If you made the variant it's worthless, if Marvel made it, its worth something. But still, the convention organizers are the ones who commission the variants from the publisher (regardless of the name or size of the convention ) in the identical fashion that retailers do, often in similar quantities and using re-purposed art or alternate versions of the same art as well. So really it is a distinction without a difference. Unless I'm missing something..... -J.

Has the actual art for this been released anywhere yet ? -J.

Yes, they are very similar, but there is more legitimacy to most con variants. Having an SDCC or NYCC exclusive variant, are things that the publishers are pursuing, not the other way around (like unsolicited store variants that owners produce). Vancouver FanExpo is borderline, but it is at least tacitly connected to the same company that does the real Fan Expo in Toronto which is the 3rd biggest con in North America. Convention variants are definitely moving more and more towards the store level of illegitimacy, especially when every tiny little con is doing them. Having the color/b&W/virgin is again pushing it more towards the store garbage imo, as its literally the same package. But my retraction was for labeling it a store variant when it was a con. Standalone, single cover, big name con variants, definitely seem to cross the threshold of legitimacy. I wouldnt touch the FanExpo variants myself, but I at least had to acknowledge they were con not store. I agree with a lot of this. Some of the best selling comic exclusives on the secondary market are also repackaged art (ie "sketch", "partial sketch", foil versions etc.). Few con exclusives retain any real value as well, but there are a couple that have and got pretty pricey , even though they (like store exclusives) are not part of a title's core run either. -J.

You don't consider con exclusives to be real variants either ? -J. yes, majority of them are legit. That was a retraction from my error of it being a store variant, which definitely are NOT real. Con exclusives do work exactly like store exclusives though. Except instead of a specific store or group of stores pooling money, the organizers or owners of the convention commission the books and they distribute them themselves (just like retailers). -J.

You don't consider con exclusives to be real variants either ? -J.

Please tell me that's a reprint.... -J.

+1 Couldn't agree more. That's why I'm being mildly snarky with my comments. -J. Please help me. Why is it okay to have multiple threads pumping books all over the board (modern variants, dozens of fan clubs in Gold-Silver-Bronze-Copper-Modern, membership clubs and many many other examples), but not okay to have a thread questioning the value of a certain book? Both sides of the coin have a place in comic education: the fan and the dissenting opinion. When you are talking about books over $1,000 I don't think it is unreasonable to ask: "why is the value where it is," "where is it potentially going" and "should I buy?" It doesn't have to be construed as negative, not everyone is a fan. If all we do is "pump" books in every thread, how will we ever get an honest opinion? What a boring place that would be... Anybody can start whatever thread they like. Although I think anyone expecting to give an honestly earned "I told you so" in this thread , 5, 6, 10+(?) years after the fact will look more than just a little foolish. And if we have gotten to a place on these boards where fans /admirers/owners of books/artists/ages, etc. cannot discuss their prized possessions without being accused of "pumping" then we are in a sad and cynical place indeed, and might as well just shut the whole thing down. -J. Of course people can and should post about the books they love, which to your point is a huge part of the boards. My only point is that people should be able to criticize and challenge the status quo as well. I didn't accuse you of pumping books and if it came off that way I apologize. What I don't understand is why you are (self admittedly) getting "snarky..?" I'm just a big fan of the show and I hope it has many more seasons ahead of it. I even started liking the spin off show during the last 3 episodes last season when it finally seemed to find its own identity. And looking back at some of the comments in this thread from 2012 and 2013 kind of makes me -J.

Looks like ASM 688 is on the move again. 9.8: http://item.ebay.co.uk/232160404467?item_hash4=8a60ddcd&LH_Complete=1&LH_BIN=1&LH_BO=1&_ipg=200&_pgn=1&rc=nt&rmvSB=true That will probably turn out to be a good deal for that buyer, considering how rarely 9.8's come up for sale and how few there are.. And a raw "8.5-9.2" copy with an un-witnessed Campbell sig: http://item.ebay.co.uk/162298462017?item_hash4=60bcc7ac&LH_Complete=1&LH_BIN=1&LH_BO=1&_ipg=200&_pgn=1&rc=nt&rmvSB=true -J.

+1 Couldn't agree more. That's why I'm being mildly snarky with my comments. -J. Please help me. Why is it okay to have multiple threads pumping books all over the board (modern variants, dozens of fan clubs in Gold-Silver-Bronze-Copper-Modern, membership clubs and many many other examples), but not okay to have a thread questioning the value of a certain book? Both sides of the coin have a place in comic education: the fan and the dissenting opinion. When you are talking about books over $1,000 I don't think it is unreasonable to ask: "why is the value where it is," "where is it potentially going" and "should I buy?" It doesn't have to be construed as negative, not everyone is a fan. If all we do is "pump" books in every thread, how will we ever get an honest opinion? What a boring place that would be... Anybody can start whatever thread they like. Although I think anyone expecting to give an honestly earned "I told you so" in this thread , 5, 6, 10+(?) years after the fact will look more than just a little foolish. And if we have gotten to a place on these boards where fans /admirers/owners of books/artists/ages, etc. cannot discuss their prized possessions without being accused of "pumping" then we are in a sad and cynical place indeed, and might as well just shut the whole thing down. -J.

+1 Couldn't agree more. That's why I'm being mildly snarky with my comments. -J.

No they wouldn't....Big 3 networks ratings leaders for middle season episodes are running double the numbers TWD is for live viewership. Wrong. WD has one of the highest demo ratings of all prime time shows on television. And maybe if Star Wars can stop telling the same story over and over it will be interesting again. -J. How about we look at Nielsen ratings.? The #2 Broadcast network show for the week of 11/21 (most recent released) was 60 minutes. Sunday night show...a 10.2 share, which equals 17,265,000 viewers. The #2 Cable show for the week of 11/21 was The Walking Dead. Sunday night show....a 5.4 share, which equals 10,403,000 viewers. In stiff competition it finished one spot ahead of the Hallmark Channel original movie Journey Back To Christmas A 5.4 share doesn't even crack the top 10 for the week on Broadcast TV. In fact it falls more than 20% behind the 10th spot. Before you jump to "WRONG" you might want to actually read what ratings mean instead of accepting the very limited and very narrowly focused analysis needed to put TWD on top (viewers of a certain age, with repeated viewings, etc etc). It might help you from becoming all that you abhor. Sure okay you're right . No major broadcast network would want a 7 year old show that still pulls a 5.4. -J. The measurement for broadcast TV as to what a juggernaut is, or as you put it "would kill for" isn't a 5.4. Seinfeld in season 7 pulled a 22 pretty much every week. Friends in season 7 pulled up to a 19. Big Bang Theory in season 7 was consistently above 17. TWD is a big fish in the smaller pond of basic cable. You should just be happy with that (even with it's recent faltering) instead of claiming something that. We might be speaking different languages. The Walking Dead demo I'm referring to (18-49, the one advertiser's care about most) is what is amongst the highest of all prime time shows. -J. You just said "the big three would kill for shows with these ratings". There are ratings with the big R, actual viewers, and targeted ratings that take into account prime time, cable or network, day of the week, genre, etc. Get specific enough and "Fixer Upper" is the next "Walking Dead". That single narrow focus....18-49 on cable...is a suitable balm to sooth ones worries in. I was under the impression that it is common knowledge that the demo "rating" is the only one that matters. And don't be disingenuous, you know that there aren't different ratings barometers for the demo or otherwise for basic cable and network television. Fact remains, even in a "down year" WD is still one of the highest rated shows on TV, and indeed, ANY network would kill for those kind of ratings (pun intended ). -J.

No they wouldn't....Big 3 networks ratings leaders for middle season episodes are running double the numbers TWD is for live viewership. Wrong. WD has one of the highest demo ratings of all prime time shows on television. And maybe if Star Wars can stop telling the same story over and over it will be interesting again. -J. How about we look at Nielsen ratings.? The #2 Broadcast network show for the week of 11/21 (most recent released) was 60 minutes. Sunday night show...a 10.2 share, which equals 17,265,000 viewers. The #2 Cable show for the week of 11/21 was The Walking Dead. Sunday night show....a 5.4 share, which equals 10,403,000 viewers. In stiff competition it finished one spot ahead of the Hallmark Channel original movie Journey Back To Christmas A 5.4 share doesn't even crack the top 10 for the week on Broadcast TV. In fact it falls more than 20% behind the 10th spot. Before you jump to "WRONG" you might want to actually read what ratings mean instead of accepting the very limited and very narrowly focused analysis needed to put TWD on top (viewers of a certain age, with repeated viewings, etc etc). It might help you from becoming all that you abhor. Sure okay you're right . No major broadcast network would want a 7 year old show that still pulls a 5.4. -J. The measurement for broadcast TV as to what a juggernaut is, or as you put it "would kill for" isn't a 5.4. Seinfeld in season 7 pulled a 22 pretty much every week. Friends in season 7 pulled up to a 19. Big Bang Theory in season 7 was consistently above 17. TWD is a big fish in the smaller pond of basic cable. You should just be happy with that (even with it's recent faltering) instead of claiming something that. We might be speaking different languages. The Walking Dead demo I'm referring to (18-49, the one advertiser's care about most) is what is amongst the highest of all prime time shows. -J.