Jaydogrules

Both over. (thumbs u -J.

That 7.5 on comic link for $15k is starting look like a reasonable price. -J.

-J.

7 Listen, and understand! That Terminator JayDog is out there! It He can't be bargained with. It He can't be reasoned with It And it he absolutely will not stop, ever.. You guys are hilarious. Fighting this long and this hard, trying so desperately to cleave to the notion that, on a good day, your walking dead 1 with a black "mature readers" label instead of a white one, "might" go for an extra fifty bucks. Truly, hilarious, especially considering some of the monster books most of you own that actually do make people drool with envy. -J.

Please do. See what I see. -J. Year 2015 Labels Average of Price white $1,990.44 black $1,985.33 Grand Total $1,989.17 SELECTIVE Reading ! -J. FTFY! (thumbs u Doesn't change what it says though, now does it? -J.

Please do. See what I see. -J. Year 2015 Labels Average of Price white $1,990.44 black $1,985.33 Grand Total $1,989.17 Reading ! -J. But I thought you wrote bffnut's "analysis is deeply flawed and misleading." Now you are using his analysis. I don't get it. It is, and I'm not using it for anything. Although, as I said in a prior post, we are actually in agreement from at least 2013-now, and certainly from 2015-now, ie that there is no significant or consistent price difference observed in the marketplace either way. I have literally been making the identical point from the beginning. (thumbs u -J.

Please do. See what I see. -J. Year 2015 Labels Average of Price white $1,990.44 black $1,985.33 Grand Total $1,989.17 Reading ! -J.

I never stated that the price over the past year was $2300. That is an average of just black labels that are in my sample over about 2.5 years. I also stated that the average white label sold for $2,032.71, which, if you look at GPA, is really close the total average over the same period of time ($2,057.23). I never claimed to be looking at prices over the course of one year. I do not think you understand what "sampling" means. By it's very definition, a sample is incomplete when compared to the population. The very reason why this thread exists is because we cannot know the population of black labels - not because CGC doesn't know (you assume they do not care), but because every strata in the line of production of the comic never thought to keep track of it. "No one knows that because CGC does not mention it on their labels." Please realize that, even if CGC had kept track of label colors from day one, we wouldn't know the true population of black and white labels, because the census would still only be a sample of the population, as not every comic gets graded. I suggest that you read up a little on statistics and sampling. While not perfect and not 100% representative of the population, it does give us a very close idea of it. The prices I posted are from GPA. While not representative of all markets, it does represent what is arguably the most active market (eBay). Prices fluctuate and change over time I will agree that prices, as a whole, have gone down a bit over the past few years. That is why I included the averages over each year so people can look at trends. However, unless a book a swinging wildly in price, then you need to look beyond just the current data to find a long running average, to gather more data points. The current sales do not always tell the whole story, especially when you can only look a back a month or two like eBay. So we are also in agreement. At least from 2013 -now. And we also agree that, according to your data for 2015- year to date, (as well as the most recently available data that I have cited) that the white labels have actually been selling for a bit more (not that that is indicative of anything meaningful either). (thumbs u What were we supposed to be debating again ? -J.

Are you normally this needlessly hostile toward people who agree with you ? -J.

So we are in agreement. (thumbs u -J.

-J.

....11/15/13 -J.

You didn't ? Actually both the 5.5 and the 4.5 set recent GPA highs. -J. I was not bidding on these due to a deal on another book. They were very solid sales from a price standpoint. Makes me wonder what fair pricing would be on a: 6.0/6.5/7.0/7.5 It's good to hear you snagged a copy. What did you finally end up getting ? -J.

Yeah. That's what he did with the ones he says he knows of. But again, he doesn't know them all. In fact, his obvious bias has more likely than not only caused him to pinpoint the few black label examples that seemed to out perform white labels at one point, a year or more ago. And yet here we are now, with a multitude of white label sales seemingly outperforming the black labels, with data points that are still readily visible and available on more than one platform for all to view and therefore not have to simply take the word of someone else. Go figure. Just don't let it drive you nuts. -J.

J I am working right now, and do not have the time to respond in full. However, you have not read my comments correctly and thus some of your comments are flawed. Please re-read what I have written and then reconsider the points you have made. And honestly, I made no analysis. I simply compiled the data is that is available for everyone to see. Yes I understand that, however your data is also simply a snapshot and is therefore incomplete. Your data only included sales where you claim to "know" which label was which. However you do not know them all, you only know of a tiny fraction. There would need to be some kind of distinguishing notation on GPA for it to be reliable. As it is, it is just as "anecdotal" as the current data that shows white labels selling for more now. Which only proves my point- at any given time, one may sell for more than the other. There is no reliable or quantifiable price difference that can be observed. U presented some examples when black labels sold for a little more. I have presented examples where white labels have sold for a little more. So why should anyone care either way ? -J.

You didn't ? Actually both the 5.5 and the 4.5 set recent GPA highs. -J.

With all due respect to bffnut's efforts, his analysis is deeply flawed and misleading. There's only been about a half dozen copies of Walking Dead #1's of either label colour that have broached the $2300 mark in the last year. There is certainly no "average" sales price of $2300, regardless of the label colour, at least not for the last 24 months. And what colours were those few copies that realized at least $2300 ? Who knows. Bffnut's analysis doesn't include all of them, because he doesn't know. Point being, bffnut's sampling size is hopelessly incomplete, because he does not know and cannot know the break down of which sales had which colour label. No one knows that because CGC does not mention it on their labels. Because CGC doesn't care to mention it and they never will. Further, if bffnut's analysis was truly legitimate, it should be observable in the marketplace at any given time, not just when he "believes" it should be present. Yet it is not. I have, on multiple occasions, over a two year period shown that there is no price difference realized. I have linked to dozens of sales for direct comparison, all sales that have occurred within mere days of each other. Indeed, the best way to conduct such an analysis is in real time, with current sales data as all things and sales are more likely to be equal and more readily comparable. Right now on ebay comic link, etc there are a multitude of sales that show no price differences, not in any grade, slabbed or raw. And there certainly is not a "$300" price difference. Further still, according to even bffnut's 2015 "averages", the white labels are selling for more. What does that mean ? It means nothing. Just as it did when the black labels appeared to sell for a little more. As we have seen, it all averages out and equalizes in the end. Hopefully that won't keep too many people up at night. -J.

"#1 Collector's Item Issue" -J.

Wow that's awesome. Big time congrats and especially impressive given how tight CGC seems to be with their grading right now. -J.

I remember that lot of books. It was about six months ago. The 667 had a totally chewed up spine. I don't even know how a modern could be that beat up. That's been the only copy in any condition that's come up for sale in nearly a year. -J.

Congratulations on the sale. $3k is right there with GPA so the book looks to be holding its value in a 9.8 well. Better hold onto the 667 Dell'otto though. That book's rarity and lack of copies put up for sale in any condition, raw or slabbed is stuff of legend. You'd kick yourself if you ever let it go. ASM 667 Dell'otto club: Population: 3 (Two slabbed 9.8's, and one raw). -J. Jerome -J.

Congratulations on the sale. $3k is right there with GPA so the book looks to be holding its value in a 9.8 well. Better hold onto the 667 Dell'otto though. That book's rarity and lack of copies put up for sale in any condition, raw or slabbed is stuff of legend. You'd kick yourself if you ever let it go. ASM 667 Dell'otto club: Population: 3 (Two slabbed 9.8's, and one raw). -J.

Hi Jim, I actually do agree with the vast majority of your post. I find your statements fair, measured and reasoned. I do not entirely discount "dealer reported data", but I personally give more weight to data that is accessible to the general public. That's just me being a smart consumer and exercising due diligence As to your point about "people just wanting a copy" as a means of equalizing prices between white labels vs black labels, and various "PQ", and differing grade levels, I say "yes, absolutely" (although I don't think that is the case really for Walking Dead white/black labels, whether there's less of one or the other or not, there just isn't one public data source that I have found where one consistently sells for more than the other, and certainly not for more than a typical margin of error that could just as easily be attributed to standard market fluctuations in pricing). The real point to be made I think, is that the number of "normal, everyday collectors" who just don't care or won't pay a "premium" greatly overwhelm the microcosm of people who are on these boards or at a comic book convention who say they will (or have) paid one. This is why, I would suggest, any claims of "premiums" one way or another are impossible - yes, impossible- to prove with publicly available sales data. -J. Holy cow...did we just kinda agree, and you can be reasonable? My other point I forgot to make in my post was that I think there would be a much larger disparity that you'd be able to see via "publicly available data" if from the onset CGC noted on their label, if it was a white or black copy. Just as I know many people are hoarding, and refuse to send in copies of Star Wars #2 until CGC finally denotes on their label "first appearance of Han Solo and Chewbacca". It sounds stupid I know, and most people buying the book know that to be the case, but unless CGC spells it out for the "average collector" they wont be submitted. Jim I think we just did. -J.

Please do. See what I see. -J.

Neverrrrrrr. -J.