Jaydogrules

That's my point. Shazam looks like it will play more like Spider-verse than Venom. Spider-verse was not profitable theatrically. -J.

I don't want to give it away... -J.

You mean like Spider-verse, which, at only $375MM didn't make any money for the studio theatrically either ? -J.

He is supposed to gain those traits as Shazam (although none of that came through in Levi's performance either), not become a completely different personality. Levi never came off as more than a kid playing with a new toy, including the end sequence where the movie went a bit off the rails. -J.

Really ? Venom is this movie's direct recent comp. If that turned a $250MM profit (after ancillaries) on an $850MM worldwide BO, how does this movie "turn a nice profit" on the $350MM-$400MM it is expected to make? -J

Sorry, but that weak-sauce response does not remotely address the stark differences in their performances. Never at any point in time did it seem the teen actor and Levi were playing the same or even a similar persona individual. -J.

Scott Mendelson disagrees. Predicting much more modest $350MM-$400MM (after China "flameout". https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2019/04/07/shazam-box-office-dc-films-zachary-levi-gal-gadot-jason-momoa-batman-captain-marvel-avengers/amp/ ..and using Hughes'own past formula, "breakeven" is actually $350MM, Or 3.5X its production budget of $100MM (which is probably about right given that it will not have crazy, disproportionate, stingy-to-the-studio Chinese BO skewing the international totals higher). Funny thing about Hughes, when Venom premiered last October, with its identical budget to Shazam, when he (incorrectly) estimated that film would debut with the same ~$50MM that Shazam did (he was ultimately wrong, Venom went on to hit $80MM) with the identical production budget it "could add up to problems" for Sony. Whereas with Shazam those same "problem" numbers that he originally estimated for Venom, are "a big win" for Shazam. Here's the link to his Venom article for a good lesson in blatant "journalistic" hackery. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2018/10/05/review-venom-is-the-bane-of-sonys-superhero-plans/amp/ -J.

Saw this on opening night in a major metropolitan city. The theater was nearly completely empty. This movie is NOT going to be a blockbuster, and will only be considered successful because of its intelligent budget (I'm looking at YOU, Aquaman and Justice league). As for the movie itself, first the Good- the child actors are mostly great in their roles. The villain had some some genuinely scary/intimidating screen time, and his motivations were believable enough. Now for the "Meh". Zachary Levi- eh. He was all right. He certainly ain't no Tom Hanks though as his attempts to behave "like a child" fluctuated between 7 year old dumb and petulant 35 year old man-boy (basically Levi playing himself). The teen he was supposedly playing the full grown up version of was NOTHING like the characterization the child actor playing the teen was doing. Maybe the two actors should have spent some more time together off screen to synch up their energy and performances better (assuming they hung out together at all off screen). The Bad- Way, way too long. This movie would have benefited GREATLY from another pass or two or three through the editors' room. At two hours and 15 minutes it is stupidly and unnecessarily loooooong. This movie would have been much more enjoyable had the useless/repetitive 30-45 minutes worth of footage was left on the cutting room floor. Also, the CGI, specifically the creatures, was barely passable, but generally unfortunate looking. Final Take- Go for the villain and the kids (even though the villain is basically just playing Zod, I happen to like Zod ). -J.

Very impressive set, definitely not easy to get all in a 9.8. -J.

This does look great. Everybody have their Batman 608RRP's ready? -J.

#thankscaptainobvious -J.

Could it be from the same geniuses who told you Aquaman "only"" cost $160MM? (Real price, $350MM, all in, which is actually a truly horrific $50MM higher than even the highest estimates previously made by anybody). And remind me again what your advance all in estimates were for either movie...? While I wait for that, you better get busy trolling every weekend box office chart Boscoe has ever posted and trying to pencil out how spider-verse was profitable theatrically with its ~$200MM all in and $375MM worldwide gross. #realgeniusesdontknowwhattheword"estimate"meansandneverrealizewhentheyarehurtingtheirownargumentsorwhenalamejokelikethisonehasrunitscourse -J.

Okay. Did you even look at the chart? $275MM of the profits are post-theatrical ancillaries which amounts to nearly the entirety of its profit margin. So YES- this horrible movie indeed needed about $900MM theatrically to reach the break even point. -J.

Dude, seriously, nobody cares about RT scores and I don't even know what your point is supposed to be anymore. But what I do know is, because of the stupidity of Aquaman's big dumb budget, and the way movie math works, a $1.1B dollar gross translated to less than a measly $15MM in additional net profit as compared to Venom's $855MM gross and net profits. So put that in your pipe and smoke it. -J.

Well since my estimates (which actually turned out to be fairly close) did not pretend to include or even know the ancillary costs/profits, your comment is, as is quite often, off base. Also, $150MM more spent by Aquaman to make less than $15MM more in profit (compared to Venom).... Yeah, that's a real intelligent way to make a movie. -J.

This includes ancillaries, genius. And also reveals an all in budget closer to $350MM. Even more idiotic than originally estimated. -J.

Greetings once again Variant Fiends and Fans! Back, by popular demand here is the updated AND NOW EXPANDED version of the Most Valuable Modern Variants List. The formerly DIRTY DOZEN has now been expanded out to TWENTY. As such, I now call it... "THE SCORE" (get it? ) I did so because I wanted to get a greater diversity in artist/book/publisher/genre. I thought the prior version of this list had become a little Campbell and Spider-Man heavy, although you will notice that in expanding the list, a few new Campbell/Spider-Man books managed to get roped in anyway. C'est la vie! There is no denying that Campbell and Spider-man/Spider-Family books have been variant gold in this hobby, and this list continues to reflect that, while also bringing in some new blood to keep things interesting. ***Thanks to all you guys who have supported the thread over the years, it is your participation that inspires me to keep track and compile this list to keep it current.*** So without further adieu, I give you, THE SCORE: #20- Supergirl and the Legion of Super-Heroes #23, Hughes (2006)- Easily one of Adam Hughes best and most memorable covers, this now iconic depiction of Supergirl posing while riding a meteor in space perfectly captures all the best components of Hughes' classic pin-up style. I mean look at it- how could you NOT want to have this book in your collection? With blue label 9.8's now cracking $1000, and signed copies approaching $1300, this is a n-brainer to make its debut on the expanded version of this list. #19- Spawn #222, Kudranski (2012)- This tough to find and totally sick cover makes its debut here thanks to a recent 9.8 sale of $1300. Spawn covers from around this era have become increasingly popular of late, and this one is second only to the formidable, and even tougher to find #185 sketch in terms of collector demand and prices consistently realized. With Spawn now over 25 years old and the title still going strong, the title that McFarlane built will likely have other entrants on this list sometime in the future! #18- Amazing Spider-Man Presents: Black Cat #1, Campbell (2010)- It will probably come as no surprise that a cover featuring JSC's favourite muse would make an appearance on the expanded version of this list. With an SS copy recently selling for just under $1500, and strong prices in most down grades, this cover featuring a particularly sultry Black Cat, flanked by a white cat coyly making up part of her iconic costume is already approaching ten years old, and shows no signs of its popularity abating. #17- Amazing Spider-Man #688, Campbell (2012)- A long-time Campbell favourite re-enters the list here, with a 9.8 copy recently selling for $1500, and the book being a consistent seller at $500+ raw. Showcasing some of JSC's art when he was at his prime, this detailed, fully realized depiction of the Lizard is prime example of what has made JSC so popular, and really is some of his best work. Given how rarely these come up for sale in any condition, and how tough it is in a 9.8 (for a modern at least). #16- Moon Knight #1, Sienkiewicz (2014)- Long time Marvel and fan favourite artist Bill Sienkiewicz gets his first entry on this list with this absolutely striking depiction of a very imposing cult darling Moon Knight, sitting atop his throne, menacing and very much in charge. The artist's unique style seems a perfect match for the character, in what is easily one of the most memorable covers for both. Yellow label sales in excess of $1500 are what snags this book a slot on this list. #15- Rick and Morty #1 Roiland (2015)- Wub-a-lub-a-luba-dub-dub (or however that goes), look who makes the list this time! Based on the cartoon with a massive cult following, this adaptation has proven to have staying power, and thusly, with more than a couple of sales in a 9.8 in the $2000 range, finally enters this list at #15. While there has been plenty of controversy due to a seemingly concerted effort by a few to artificially inflate the earlier sales of this book, things seem to have settled down on that front a bit, and enough consistent legitimate sales to award this book a place here in the Top 15. #14- X-23 #1, Dell'Otto (2010)- The undeniable popularity of this book has recently resulted in first- the image of it was re-used, not on a reprint, but as a cover for an entirely new comic, which itself has sold out, and is already going for as much as $300 on the secondary market. And that hasn't slowed down or diminished demand for the original either as a 9.8 has recently sold for over $1950, a 9.6 for $1100, and an 8.5 for $600. Combined with the fact that X-23 remains one of Marvel's hottest female character right now, a very well received introduction in the film Logan, continuing discussions for a solo film, and a breath-taking cover that may be one of her best depictions to date, and you have a book that will likely continue to bounce around on this list for a long time to come. #13- Amazing Spider-Man #700, Ditko (RIP, 1927-2018) (2013)- This hearty ASM 1:200 book drops five spots this update, but stays comfortably on the list thanks to strong demand for Stan Lee (RIP 1922-2018) Signature Series copies (particularly his "90th Birthday" signed copies, which now seem to have an extra poignancy to them) . By the looks of things it seems these also seem to be drying up into collections, as renewed interest in many ASM 700 variants in general continue to push it forward, with this one easily being the cream of the crop. Featuring the first (full) appearance of Superior Spider-man, the "death" of Peter Parker, and the original un-used cover for Amazing Fantasy 15 by the late, great Mr. Steve Ditko, this book has been highly sought after since it first released, and will likely only continue to charge forward into the future. #12- Ultimate Fallout #4, Djurdjevic (2011)- Riding on the critically acclaimed and Academy Award winning best animated feature, Miles Morales finally makes his debut on this list at this position. With 9.8 sales now cracking $2,000, the Miles Morales train only seems to be picking up steam as collectors continue to drive the price of this book up, up, up. Originally born in the "Ultimate" title, and since moved over the "616" during the last Secret wars event, Miles' popularity has proven to be among the most enduring of Marvel's modern takes/reimagining of its classic characters, proving once again that there is plenty of room and demand for all shapes, coulours genders and sizes in the Marvel universe and beyond. #11- Edge of Spider-verse #2, Land (2014)- Who would have thunk it? This is now considered a legit modern key. Whomever would have thought what seemed like a throw away one-off character would have this kind of staying power and turn out to be this popular? Well it happened, so deal with it. And now with a much talked about appearance on the big screen in the upcoming Spider-Verse movie (that title taken from the title of this book), it is looking like Spider-Gwen is here to stay. Prices for this book are not only strong in a 9.8, with copies still hitting over $2300 lately, but in most down grades, proving that the demand for this book is not only real, but quite strong. So get used to it. #10- Siege #3, Campbell (2010)- Dropping three spots this update, but still going strong, this bizarre retailer incentive that involved destroying other comic books, a super hot artist, a recent sale of a 9.4 yellow label for $1675, and one of Marvel's most trendy characters flossing on the cover are the perfect recipe to keep this book firmly in the Top Ten. #9- Spawn #185 Sketch, McFarlane/Portacio (2008)- Despite no recent 9.8 sales, a recent sale of a 9.6 for $2,700 keeps this book in the Top 10. But talk about ridiculously rare? Geesh! One of Image's original and longest running titles checks in here with its most valuable RI variant to date (maybe even Image's most valuable book, period). With the scant census numbers, this should rare book should keep the variant chasers and Spawn completists on their heels and this book in high value and esteem for the foreseeable future. Given the recent interest in older rare Spawn covers, the long term prospects for this book are bright indeed. #8- Captain Marvel #14, Conner (2013)- Captain Marvel has arrived, so people are now expecting the current Ms. Marvel to do the same (eventually). As such, this hard to find variant is making waves with a 9.6 selling for over $2700 (!), and a raw copy grabbing $1500. Now firmly entrenched in the Top 10, this book has leapfrogged many long time variant stalwarts, and boasts the first cameo appearance of Kamala Khan before she would become the new Ms. Marvel and an overnight sensation. Featuring a majestic take of her idol, Captain Marvel, standing atop a jet, it is certainly an apt introduction to what would become Marvel's next superstar. A recent announcement from the powers that be at Marvel that this character is being primed for introduction into the MCU have caused prices of this book to spike! #7- Black Panther #1, Partial Sketch, Campbell (2009)- Like a (female) panther leaping from the forest, this entrant re-enters the Top Ten at the #7 position. Actually released 9 years ago, this book only recently got discovered by JSC fans and became an instantly hot item. The first 9.8 copy to hit the market went for a whopping $3700, and more recently a 9.6 eclipsed $3000 at auction and a raw copy sold for $1250. With a hit Black Panther movie already in the can, and Shuri emerging as a fan favourite, this tough to find JSC variant is not likely to drop off this list again.  #6- Star Wars: Vader Down #1 Sketch, Zdarsky (2016)- Oh yes. Here it is. It has officially been three years since this came out, so this now officially debuts at #6 on this list. They said it wouldn't last, and it did. Marvel's first extreme, to the extreme ratio variant , an incomprehensible 1:5000, has proven to have staying power among collectors, with a couple of recent sales in the $4,000 range. When it was originally released, few believed that this would prove to have the staying power that it has. Touted as being the rarest Star Wars variant out there, it no doubt is, and the subjective artistic merits aside, collectors continue to really, really want this book. #5- Batman #608 RRP, Lee (2002)- A couple of sales in the $4k range for 9.8's (down a bit from the previous update), move this down a couple of spots this update, but strong sales in down grades such as a recent sale of a 9.4 for $1,900 keeps it in the Top 5. The combination of it being Batman, a first appearance of a new character (on the cover), Part One of a story line that put the Batman title back on top, deep within the run of a popular, long running title, over 15 years old, ridiculously rare, and by the highly regarded Jim Lee, might make this the "perfect variant". This is the "granddaddy" of the DC "RRP" line of books, and maybe even the age of modern variants as we know it to a certain extent. As DC's top variant, and with copies disappearing into personal collections, don't expect to get this one on the cheap ever again (when you can even find one). #4- Wolverine #1, Campbell (2010)- Here we have another JSC cover, this one his finest, moving up a spot thanks to a recent sale of a 9.8 for $4,200 and a 9.6 yellow label for $3,000. Even a low grade (for a modern) 6.0 copy has gone for just under $700. How many modern comics can you say have done that? Featuring a stocky Wolverine bulging out of Deadpool's costume, breaking the fourth wall as he smirks slyly at the viewer, this book sells very strong in all down grades, as well as raw. It was a "destroy comics" incentive to retailers, an incentive that was so derided in the industry that it has yet to be repeated, but resulted in a book with a very low print run and insatiable demand. It was the uber-high sales prices of this book a couple of years ago that really got the JSC train going at 100 miles per hour, and if it ever stops chugging along, people will still be paying big money for this book, and this one will likely be the one book for which he is most remembered in the years to come. In this writer's opinion, this will end up being the one book that Campbell is best known for. The fact that it combines two of Marvel's most popular characters and a Wolverine aping Deadpool's fourth-wall breaking sense of humour truly does showcase Campbell at his best. #3- Amazing Spider-Man #678, Quinones (2012)- Dropping to #3, but still going strong with a recent sale of a raw copy for over a staggering $3k, 9.6's selling for $2600, and even a 9.0 selling for $1,200, this now classic and oft-reprinted and homaged cover was a 1:50 variant when sales of ASM barely cracked 50,000, and features Mary Jane in mid-possession by the alien symbiote known as Venom. Its character mash-up and spoof elements made it an instant hit right out of the gate and it never looked back. So strong is the pull of this book that it raised to prominence (and value) of most, if not all of the other "Venom Variants" that were released outside of the ASM title that same month, which has led to a brand new batches of Venom variants released over the years, as well as Venomized villain covers. The ASM 678 is why Venomized covers are a "thing", and the concept itself has now practically become a sub-genre unto itself. Its "modern grail" status, and presence in the ASM run should keep it near the top of this list for a very long time. #2- Uncanny X-Men #510 Partial Sketch, Campbell (2009)- Without a doubt the most valuable and hard to find convention book out there, this jumps up two spots this update, and now only has the mighty ASM 667 Dell'otto standing in its way from the #1 spot. Thanks to a couple of 9.8's recent popping up for sale and going for $13k, and $12.5k, followed shortly thereafter by a lowly 8.5 that went for a whopping $3350, this book proves once and for all that Campbell + crazy rarity + beautiful pin-up art = salivating fans and $$$. And with the rare raw copies of this also easily cracking $2000 when they do come up, all things considered, it wouldn't take much for this book to jump even higher on this list, and indeed its legacy of high sales, coupled with a complete and total lack of copies appearing on the market should ensure its presence within to Top 5 in perpetuity. #1- Amazing Spider-Man #667, Dell'Otto (2011)- Continuing to hold tightly to the top spot, this book continues to "amaze". There have been a couple of recent public sales to add to this book's already impressive oeuvre of data points, including a 9.4 for $13,300, and a raw copy (A RAW COPY) for $8,500! These, coupled with an other impressive sale of $10,000 for a 9.8 (first publicly closed sale of a 9.8 in four and a half years), followed shortly thereafter by a 9.6 sale for $8,000 (both of which are now over a year and a half ago), this is officially the first variant from this era of comics to crack these milestones, just two of many milestones that have been set by this book, and it will likely ensure that it stays at the top of this list for a long time. It was nearly four years ago back in September, 2015 when a VF/NM-ish raw copy of this sold for over $2000 that, in retrospect, seems to have kicked off this "next-level" of prices that people are now willing to pay for even raw copies of some of these truly rare books. At the time, such a high price paid for a raw modern book, no matter how rare, raised more than a few eyebrows, but since then we have seen similar stratospheric prices paid for multiple other books, including this one, which beat its own record when another, VF-looking raw copy sold for $2500 six months later, and a 9.6 copy hit $4k in June, 2016. As a side bonus, the multiple blockbuster sales of this one book officially put the name "Dell'otto" on the map, and raised his profile to the A-lister status shared by other hot and talented artists with names like Campbell, McFarlane and Lee. Possibly one of the rarest books of all in the entire ASM run, it was a 1:100 that was originally offered to retailers after they had already submitted their orders for the month, on the heels of the massive ASM 666 retailer variant event, and to make matters even more dicey, there was another variant offered at the same time for weeks beforehand, with a competing incentive, that seemed to cause dealers to either not notice the Dell'otto or not bother to order it at all. It truly is a completionist's nightmare, and a rare variant hunter's wet dream. Hardly ever offered for sale, in any condition, there are multiple reports of only about 225 of these being produced , and the more time that passes, the more that number looks to be accurate, as however few copies there are have already disappeared into permanent collections, and it is a veritable feeding frenzy when a copy does find its way to market. To this day only one or two of these surfaces publicly for sale a year, and they are never anywhere to be found at conventions. If there is such a thing as "Golden Age rarity" in the Modern Age, the ASM 667 Dell'Otto has it, and there could easily come a time when years go by without any copy seeing the light of day. ***ON THE RADAR*** -Spawn #227 Sketch Cover, McFarlane (2013) -Amazing Spider-Man #648, Colour, Campbell (2011) (yeah, another Campbell book) -Spawn #189 Sketch Cover, McFarlane (2009) -Ms. Marvel #2, Molina (2014) -Wolverine #310 Sketch, Platt (2012) Thanks again for reading and happy variant hunting!

Dear lord heaven forbid a publisher dares to release something somebody else might like or decide to buy. -J.

Wow last couple books posted here today are amazing. -J.

Sure did. Right before the con. -J.

....and he's still gotten some offers. -J.

Can't really make out the serial number, but methinks those are @Kwan Chang copies... -J.

Oh okay, so now you're acknowledging that the "error", can in fact be replicated. Glad we agree on that now. However.... First, you don't know what I have or have not notified CGC of. Second, I have no "duty" or "obligation" to do anything. Third, this was years ago. Fourth, CGC is far from perfect, and are subject to criticism, suggestions, etc from their customers like any business is. Latsly, you have all the "proof" you're going to get, so consider yourself duly warned. But in case you missed it from the two other times I said it when the topic became relevant with the sale of that sketchy looking raw copy on ebay- buyer beware on copies of that book. -J.

Nice centerpieces to a great collection of wall books. Based on their commentary they clearly know what they have. -J.

Have any pics to share? -J.