VintageComics

So, you're agreeing that the Teen Titans 1st appeared in #54 then?

I'm not sure when that would be. After all, BB60 specifically cites to BB54 when it says the formation of the TT pre-dated BB60: So it was established by DC the first time that the name Teen Titans was used that the group originated in BB54. Moreover, the first time the story from BB54 was reprinted, in 1972, in DC 100 Page Super Spectacular DC-21, it was labeled on the cover as being a "Teen Titans" story. Hard to fault Overstreet for calling BB54 the first Teen Titans appearance when that's exactly what DC was doing back when the Guide was first written. Of course, subsequent DC publications, such as the Archives and 50th Anniversay HC, have also confirmed BB54 was the first appearance and origin of the TT. Bob got it right. That's why every dealer, including you, list BB54 as a TT book. Game. Set. Match. Or... Drops the mic and walks away.

This thread is specifically for board members who need to be put on probation. Stuff like scams in general should probably be put in Comics General. Specifically, there is a thread where people were discussing an AF #15 scam already right here. I'll repost your post in that other thread. (thumbs u

You don't think it's important for people to know that the person they are donating money to has taken money from boardies, in some cases years ago, and have not provided what was promised? I don't think we need to deify the party being donated to, reality works just fine. If they have shortcomings, and owe people, then that's part of the story that needs to be told. No sense in hiding facts in order to raise the final tally. Full disclosure to people throwing money at someone doesn't feel like thread-crapping...at all. That's the type of context that anyone donating should want to have given the enormity of the latitude the person being donated to has been given. Something that would have had almost anyone else on one or more "lists". There are folks that are out significant money, and plenty of folks that have supported this same person for several years in that mix, and it's appropriate to have the full measure of reality injected into that conversation as it seems their loss is being muted. Not sure how the two things go hand in hand. I can definitely understand the people who have been waiting for 3 years for art to not donate since they may feel like they have given Matt more then enough. But mentioning he owes art to people in a charity thread doesn't seem to make much sense unless you think he has misused the money previously given him which should be pointed out if you have proof. Having people like myself donate some money to Matt should in no way stop Matt from living up to his promises and will hopefully help him get the art to people who have paid for it. It's great that you want to help someone out. There are many people here that have supported Matt for years. I, personally, have several thousand dollars worth of his art and products myself. That's the type of perspective that might be valuable to someone who hasn't supported him in that way in the past. Letting people know that Matt owes people and that there are other people on this forum being harmed by his circumstances is another reason for people to help get Matt on his feet. Your donation and the donations of others may be able to help Matt AND the people Matt owes simultaneously. It's all tied together and anyone donating would appreciate a full spoonful of disclosure without the pits filtered out. +1 to all of this. It isn't threadcrapling in any way shape or form and as you eloquently stated, if he was someone that was not as well thought of, he would been on the probation list or hos a whe ago. I can agree with this. And I called Matt the other day to see how he was doing. I got his answering machine and I haven't heard back. I like Matt and hope this gets straightened out but I too think that I a case like this people should be aware of how much money has already gone into helping Matt if that is the case. One reason is that even though we are mostly good people and want to help, most people have limits on how much they can help. I find it valuable knowing 1) how much help someone needs (if they have insurance covering much of their expenses then they don't need as much help as if they didn't have insurance) 2) how long they have needed help for - this indicates to me how much effort someone might be putting into truly trying to make their way out of their situation 3) how much they have already been helped Most people want to help, but most people that want to help want to know that their help is being put to good use and not being either wasted or misdirected.

Well, of course it was a generic write up. But DC implicitly stated "Once again a startling new team of DC heroes has triumphed" They were a team. They were just unnamed. It's not that hard to accept that a team can be a team without an official name. Obviously, some editor at some point read through BB #54, saw the theme of the story as being about teenagers and finally thought up the catchy name "Teen Titans" and the reused what was essentially the same team for BB #60. They were a team of teenagers. They were just unnamed in #54. I still have no problem accepting it was their 1st appearance.

All discussions go through circular reasoning and stuff gets repeated. I just can't understand why it's so difficult to grasp/admit that they first appeared in #54.

But DC stated that they were a new team. Obviously new enough that the execs at DC hadn't even thought of the name Teen Titans yet. But they were more or less the same team, reintroduced a few issues later with a gimmicky name and maybe a new member. Still, the same team that was not only introduced but also noted on the last page that they were a new 'team'. It doesn't follow the formula of most team introductions but that doesn't mean it wasn't their first appearance. Again, no contest in my books.

Keep in mind I have not read this entire thread (who has time for that) - but doesn't the last page posted of BB54 proclaim "Once again a startling new team of DC heroes has triumphed!" Doesn't this satisfy the need for a formal proclamation of a team? COmbined that with DC stating this was the first TT and isn't that enough? Furthermore, with regards to Wonder Girl not joining the team until BB60 - why does that even matter if one core member is not present? So do the Avengers not form until issue #4 when Captain America joins (who is arguably the most important member of the Avengers?) You read my mind and posted before I could. And Hulk was a team member...and then he wasn't. And then he was. And then he wasn't. It's no contest in my opinion. Especially with the statement that DC has already called them a team.

Wait, so even though the last panel of BB #54 clearly states "Once again a startling new team of DC heroes has triumphed. What Brave and Bold for new teams, new adventures, new excitment!" and they reintroduce the same team in BB #60, you're saying they weren't a team in #54? Who cares if the team changed slightly? We've already established that teams are always changing. Hulk's role changed in the Avengers across nearly every issue. Does that mean because he was in Avengers #1 as an Avenger that it wasn't really the Avengers?

And I agree with you. Many teams appeared in a book, did something together and then became a team after the fact.

Bite me, greggy. Generated in 130.268 seconds in which 130.257 seconds were spent on a total of 11 queries. Zlib compression enabled.

I disagree and I'll explain my logic next week when I get home. Yes they weren't named the teen titans but they were a team.

No Wonder Woman til All-Star 8. Does that mean there was no Justice Society in All-Star 3-7? The Justice Society was called the Justice Society before Wonder Woman came along. The Titans on the other hand...... So what's the qualification for a first appearance, having a team name, or the roster? In this case? Both. There hasn't been a cohesive Avengers or X-men lineup since day one. The teams are constantly changing. That's just the way it's always been in comics. I'm not a DC guy or a Teen Titans guy so I have no vested interest (although I did recently help pair a BB #54 CGC 9.6 with an owner ) but in my mind it's no contest. BB #54 is the 1st appearance.

After nearly 16 years there is finally a freshly graded, CGC 9.8 copy on the census. Single highest graded. Wow.

I said the almost same thing from early on. Each episode seemed rushed and cheap. It's admirable that they are admitting it.

Yeah, I thought the mask looked just awful when we finally got to see it. The cheesiness almost undid all the realism the previous look setup. Now, I'm glad they're not not going with a cowl, but at the same time I don't want DD to look like he's wearing a battle helmet either. Yup. Yup. Weakest part of the whole show. They need to come up with something better.

The Facebook market is like this place multiplied by Comics General and then strung out on PCP.

Sorry, I hadn't adjusted the whole list. Only techtre2003.

Oh, and I agree with RMA on the charity thing.

Since techtre2003 has taken themselves off the list and I am next AND Randy is not too far from me how about I get him?

It already is a success for the simple fact that Marvel was able to generate $300M+ from a weak 3rd tier character. It just shows that you can wring blood from a stone if you do it properly.

Do you ever have a slow page? If so I'm calling for misrepresentation!

I've had tons of 12-16 second pages.

I've listed the following Marvel Mystery Comics #6 CGC 1.8 House Of Mystery #4 CGC 9.6 Bethlehem Manhunt #1 CGC 9.4 Link to thread. All at reduced prices. PM with any offers or concerns. Roy.