HuddyBee

8 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

Tweaking characters or filling out their backstory is not the same as creating new characters from the same basic concept. There is no "SA Aquaman" like Barry Allen or Hal Jordan

Nope.

If a character was once a human, and then is releaved to be Atlantean, his powers change, and he is given a new name, its a reboot. There is a SA Aquaman just read AC 260 and More Fun 73, they are extremely different. If a character changes species between SA and GA name and powers, it is MOST DEFINITELY a reboot. 

GA Aquaman                                                                                   SA Aquaman

Human                                                                                             Half Atlantean/Human

No name                                                                                          Arthur Curry

Learned how to breath underwater (no actual superpowers)         Can breath underwater, and communicate with sea life. (these powers where tuned in and inherited)

Look above and compare it with Hawkman's reboot. Hawkman really underwent less changes than Aquaman, all he changed was species and origin, just like Aquaman, except Aquaman's powers changed as well.

The outline stays the same, but so much changes. Different Origin/Species different name, and new powers. There's no doubt its a reboot, and a whole new character.

You are wrong. It is no-where near just a "tweaking" or a "filling out," like you saw with Spectre or Phantom Stranger, its a hardcore reboot just like GL, Flash, and Hawkman. 

Just read the two different origins in More Fun 73 and AC 260, its very obvious.

3 hours ago, grayzr said:

Crazy since on top of the fact its his first SA appearance its also his origin issue. Why does it say "1st Aquaman tryout issue" on showcase 30? Why is showcase 30 also stated as his origin? Whats going on?

I know very little about Aquaman but this is interesting.

Man don't get me started. Showcase 30 was published over a year after AC 260, in SC 30 they retell the same origin as in AC 260. SC 30 is basically his first solo comic, its like SC, 4, 22, or 34, except its not the first SA appearance of the character. In AC 260 it is revealed that Aquaman is now, "Arthur Curry," and that he is Atlantean, and that his mother is Atlanna, all of this is new, and overrides is previous golden age character and origin as revealed in More Fun #73. 

Now, the reason why CGC or other grading companies don't write, "First appearance of the SA Aquaman" (make sure we keep in mind the difference between "First SA appearance", and "First appearance of the SA Aquaman) is because Aquaman was continually published as backup throughout the golden to silver age transition in Adventure Comics. So essentially it can be argued that the Aquaman in AC 259 is the same as in AC 260, however AC 260 is the first appearance of the new character as it is the first appearance of his new origin, and heck the first time he gets a name, Arthur Curry, other than Aquaman. This makes a pretty strong case for it being the first appearance of the SA Aquaman. Just how GL was revamped in SC 22 or how Flash was in SC 4 or Hawkman in BB 34, they have the same name, and in some cases look the same (heck the SA and GA Hawkman are practically identical) yet they are still considered revamps, and their respective issues are, "First appearance of the Silverage ____" Aquaman has 2 main versions just like GL and Flash a SA and GA version.

CGC used to label AC 260 as "First SA Origin of Aquaman," but they stopped that some years ago. Basically you have generally ill-informed buyers, who think SC 30 is the key to buy, because sellers market it dishonestly. It's not. Yes it's still important, and a key, but it is only his first solo book tryout, not his first appearance and not his #1 issue. It's basically the equivalent of AC 381 for Supergirl, just a first solo comic. AC 260 is the true and only, "First appearance of the SA Aquaman," and of course More Fun 73, "First appearance of Aquaman."

Both my copies of AC 260 I got for $20-40, though prices have risen a bit, an 0.5 and 2.5. I would highly recommend picking up a copy, as the markets ignorance has led to this book being extremely cheap for its rarity and importance. Its not a very common book, only 195 on census.

As always thank you for giving me the opportunity to spread news of AC 260. It is my one goal and only mission to have this key issue recognized for what it is.

P.S. Plenty of people do recognize this key, including the site comics.gocollect.com

3 hours ago, LordRahl said:

Can people just stop quoting how many copies there are in the census? It's completely irrelevant how many total copies there are graded. 2 or 20,000... doesn't matter. Demand is what matters. You can have only 2 copies of a book in the census and if not one person wants that book, it doesn't matter that there are only 2 graded... it still won't sell for squat. 20,000 copies of ASM 300? Sure, but 100,000 people want one.

Demand matters, yes but so does supply, as the term goes, "supply and demand, " both effect each other.

I'm not going to see it because marvel movies are just the same thing over and over again. It gets old. And besides who wants to see Captain Marvel, when you can wait a month and see: 

those name stealin' jerks

How about ASM 300, you can't get a VG for under $100 yet there are more copies then Wolverine 1, 18,500 copies just on the census.

On 1/22/2019 at 2:37 AM, Bart Allen said:

The most affordable Silver key:

No doubt Adventure comics 260. Its the First SA appearance of Aquaman, (though not officially recognized by cgc) should be up there in value with SC 22 and BB28, but the market is ignorant for the most part of its presence, and you can get a VG copy for user $100.

I guess you would call this more "undervalued" than affordable, but still very affordable.

All this DC hate, just got to clear up one thing. DC movies suck, but we all know that DC is still better than Marvel right?

14 minutes ago, kav said:

In reality creators ARE free to charge whatever they want and no amount of complaining has any effect whatsoever.

Anyone who disagrees w/ this just needs to learn some basic economics and realize America is capitalist, and not Communist/Socialist.

The only sig I've really tried to get was one from Joe Rubenstein, got it for like $5, and one from Neal Adams, I don't remember exactly how much it was, but it cost upwards of like $40, which just seemed ridiculous to me considering I paid way less for the book he was going to sign. I didn't get the sig.

Obviously they can charge however much they want for their signature. It's called capitalism. I just wish some of 'em could be cheaper, and that creators would do it for the fans not the money.

1 hour ago, Blastaar said:

Have to throw Hawkman #4 out there. Great cover, silver age, and Zatanna is a great character.....but there is a 9.2 listed for $4,250!!!!

That book has grown quite a lot recently. I was lucky enough to get mine cheap, but we got to remember there's only 733 copies on the census. That's still a lot less than most marvel overpriced keys.

13 hours ago, cosmic_surfer said:

Hands down - Warewolf by Night 32 is the most overrated comic book right now. I don’t see any upside with that book. Do you guys seriously see MK headlining an MCU / Disney Movie? Might show up in Disney+ streaming but I’m sure it will be a tamed version, which will suck anyways. 

Agreed, never really liked the character, don't get the hype.

There are really just a ton of what I would consider overpriced Bronze Age first appearances, Iron fist, Moon Knight, Ghost Rider, Sabertooth, Luke Cage all come to mind. Bronze Age was when Marvel became more popular and when they starting printing more and better quality. (no more marvel chipping) A lot more issues survived, making all of these comics super common. None of the characters listed above are A-list characters, most aren't even B-list, yet they attract a ton of money because Marvel is hot right now.

28 minutes ago, newshane said:

In fact, I think AF15 is overpriced. Yep.

+1 

see my previous post

Just because you love a character or they have good art doesn't mean they aren't C-level. Swamp thing is C-level, maybe not for some of y'all, but ask any random person who swamp thing is, and you'll soon see he's C-level. I love Hawkman, but lets face it, he's a C-level character, his first appearance is also somewhat scarce, but just like swamp-thing, that shouldn't warrant a ridiculous price increase.

But hey, enough HOS 92 talk, what about Showcase 30, not even a first appearance or a key issue (maybe a minor key), yet its ridiculously expensive.

24 minutes ago, Shadow said:

As much as I love Wrightson Swamp Thing, HOS92 does seem like it's jumped up a lot in recent years. That said, I still need to get it...

Yeah, me too. I'll probably just get Phantom Stranger 14 or HOM 195 some of his prototypes, and call it a day.

I'm just going to say it. AF 15. With over 3000 copies on the census, there are nearly 8x as many copies as SC 4, this book should not be fetching so much to put it up with AC 1 and TEC 27. Should definitely be the most valuable SA Marvel comic, and be worth quite a lot, but I think its a little much just when compared to how scarce so many other books are. 

21 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

I can appreciate the scarcity of HOS 92 as much as anyone, but Swamp Thing is a C-level character and you are comparing its 1st appearance valuation against the 1st appearance of the modern X-Men, arguable the most popular title of the past 30+ years, and you’re telling me I’m wrong???  Lol 😂 

Agreed I always thought HOS92 was way over priced. Swamp thing is not a super huge character. It is kind of scarce, but so are most DC silver age books, and when compared in price to other SA DC, its honestly pretty ridiculous.

30 minutes ago, creaturefan95 said:

Love 'em. You just can't go wrong with Kubert.

On 2/15/2019 at 2:47 PM, drbanner said:

The problem with the DC Silver Age keys isn't that there are more of them (they're way scarcer than the Marvel keys as already mentioned), it's that they are almost all recycled Golden Age heroes/teams. I can't even think of a single 1st appearance of a major DC character that occurred in the Silver Age?

That is an interesting point. I'd never really thought about that. I guess one would hope major distinctions like Alan Scott v Hal Jordan, or Al Pratt v Ray palmer, would be great enough for people to view them as virtually completely different characters. Although with SC 4, Barry is quite like Jay in that they have the same powers, yet that is one of the few DC keys to be pretty fairly valued. 

5 hours ago, waaaghboss said:

Aren't there also a ton more DC silver age keys floating around out there?  Supply demand?  I found a site and can't, eh, refind it, that showed estimated print runs for the top 50 books for various years in the 1960's.  DC books dominated, outselling whatever marvels showed up on the bottom of the list at 3 to 1 or 4 to 1 rations.  Marvel didn't seem to get their numbers up until the mid to late 60's.  If key books in the 1960-1965 range are looked at, and DC printed 4x as many books on average, won't there still be a higher number of dc keys out there?

 

 

This might be true, but if you compare the registry its know where close. Just look at Showcase 4 v Amazing Fantasy 15 or Showcase 22 v Fantastic Four 1, or really any dc key to a marvel key. AF 15 - 3106 on census, Showcase 4 - 463 on census, FF 1 - 2194, SC 22 - 992. Way less DC. Just go to a con its almost all expensive overpriced marvel. 

On 2/4/2019 at 9:06 PM, Darkowl said:

Sounds crazy, right? But it seems like this book has exploded in value in recent times, and It seems like Disney is to blame? Are we now seeing a bubble for what used to be "secure" books/buys?

Honestly, look at the market, and you'll see the cheapest books w/ potential are silver age DC, with the DCEU not doing so hot their books aren't either. DC books are cheap and have just as much potential as marvel keys, but since the movies suck, the books aren't worth much. But with the DCEU doing a little better w/ the success of Aquaman and the surge we saw in his books, people might start considering investing in DC.

On 2/7/2019 at 3:03 PM, 90sChild said:

I made this post in the AF#15 thread but it still applies more to X-Men #1 than anything else.

We are in a cyclical speculator selling to speculator pattern.  My problem with comics as investments is that unlike the stock market, you can't short them when they are overvalued.  Think a Hulk 181 in 9.4 isn't worth $10000?  Too bad, you can't do anything about it.  Nobody will sell at a loss so there is an endless cycle of price increases.  
The group of speculators who banked on Disney buying fox hit their gold mine, they have to sell to the next group of speculators willing to buy that are hoping for some huge movie related news which people are already expecting.  Who will those speculators sell to?  A new group of speculators that didn't see fantastic four or x-men MCU movies coming?  With each cycle the pie shrinks more and more as I think the MCU is pretty much reached full exposure to the public at this point.  I don't think it can continue forever but we'll see I guess.  Based on my experience in stocks the best time to sell is when the market has reached a level of euphoric optimism.
 

I agree. All these books have shot up recently, basically any silver age marvel has increased in value since the MCU. I think now is the optimum selling point, not buying point. The MCU can't be popular forever. And usually things that tend to gain lots of money over short periods of time, lose it easier.

On 2/5/2019 at 5:05 PM, maraxusofkeld said:

The book has been undervalued for years compared to other Marvel SA keys, AF 15, Hulk #1 come to mind. I think if the X-Men that appeared in GS #1 would have made the debut in this issue it would be held in higher regard and more expensive. 

Only undervalued compared to those books because those books were overvalued in the first place.

Found something really interesting on PGX's website. Just thought it was interesting, they don't authenticate Stan Lee, Steve Ditko, or Jack Kirby signatures any more. Not quite sure when they changed this but, looks like those potential Ditko, Lee signatures can't be a problem anymore. I'm guessing they changed this since these signatures can greatly alter the value of a comic, therefore forgery is more likely.