Lightning55

I suspect there are people doing time currently for fraud or embezzlement, however it was perpetrated. For this particular situation, if the perpetrator is found to be guilty of fraud, imprisonment would seem appropriate. But we won't know for a while how that goes. If the only remedy is civil suit, that isn't much of a deterrent. Even if you are successful and get a judgement, you may find it difficult to collect any damages. Winning and collecting are 2 different things.

I am surprised that some books are already being crossed off the list, presumably because some "authority" called CGC and explained why it shouldn't be on the list, because no one could have mailed their slab to CGC so quickly to get a determination. I would like to see that the number comes off the list because CGC only has in fact removed the book from the holder, authenticated it, and then reholdered, new certification. And the new certification # should be posted on that line item for a clear paper trail, as well as the old cert # added to the lookup information. This is a bad situation and needs a clear resolution. Anyone "fixing" specific books other than CGC only muddies the waters.

I fall into this group, also. I've had around 2000 books graded, an even spread of Bronze, Copper, Modern. About 20% were 9.8s. I got 1 or 2 with Grader Notes. And as low as 8.5 with no notes at all. Very different results than Mr. Scammer. Some people are just "lucky".

The announcement also allowed for the possibility of more books, since no one can be certain that there are not undiscovered swapped books out there: "If you have any questions, or if you believe you have a tampered book that is not on our list, please reach out to us at ReportFraud@CollectiblesGroup.com." I suspect that the list will be "fluid" in both directions. CGC did not say it was an exhaustive list.

Sounds like the normal screen process doesn't fit for you because you don't want the books back raw, losing the signature authenticity. Why not send them in for a straight C&P with regrading, no screening?

If you feel strongly about it, hoard a bunch of 23's. If they switch it, you're golden.

I'm not convinced either, but also not shocked if it is true that they can't be identified solely by the slab condition. I would feel bad for the hobby in general, as this aspect that we trusted, can no longer be trusted. I think everyone would like to take a look at the switched slabs, at least the ones that are proven by photographic evidence to have been switched, to see how good the corners and edges appear after being "worked". To see if there is anything that gives it away. If a bunch of people can examine a known scam slab and agree that there is nothing conspicuous about it, that's a hit to the hobby. At least in the graded sector, to the extent that becomes discovered, e.g. certain target issues, direct lower grade for higher grades swaps, green labels into blue holders. There is also no way, as someone else pointed out earlier, without photographic evidence or some weakness in the provenance, to identify a slab as a switched one if in fact it does look perfect. Even after cracking and finding a missing MVS, restoration, a missing page, or missing insert, it could be claimed that CGC just missed it at the time of grading. And if you are the one who discovers it when you crack it out for a CPR, for instance, you are left with a scam comic and a cracked case, no way to prove the comic was the one that came out of that specific case.

If you look up a high value slab that you are considering for purchase, and the pre‐existing photos don't match the comic that is sitting in there now, the seller is busted. That's how this scam got exposed in the first place. To prevent that, the scammer finds an excuse for a new holder to get the photos on the lookup page to update to what is now in the slab.

Not a shill. I don't even have a dog in this fight. Not scared - again, nothing to fear, nothing at risk. I'm just countering the Chicken Little's of the world. And thread hijackers.

All of the above, but mostly to get new scans, inhibiting the paper trail.

Looks like 10 million, correct?

Not 18 million. Announced 10 million a year ago, and that included cards, magazines, posters, etc. Even if 180,000 books, 99% of those are either too inexpensive to work with, or available in too few number to work into the scam. Just another inflammatory, speculative statement. A cry for attention.

5th attempt to derail this thread toward a discussion on the long dead Hulk 180/181 debate. And now we see why...he has the 180 and it isn't getting the love that the 181 gets. Figured this all along.

4th attempt to derail this thread toward a discussion on the long dead Hulk 180/181 debate.

3rd attempt to derail this thread toward a discussion on the long dead Hulk 180/181 debate.

Agree 100% with this. When you go to sell your books, or your loved ones sell them, you want to get the best price. You can lose potential buyers because they notice flaws on that 9.8, flaws that cause them to not invest their money in what they consider a substandard 9.8. In most markets, as the pool of potential buyers decreases, so does the price, typically. But you could get lucky and find a buyer, and you only need one. One who also buys the grade on the label only.

Yeah, just double up on trying to dredge up that beat-to-death topic, completely unrelated to the OP. I hope you are unable to suck anyone in, but I don't hold out much hope for that. At least it took 243 pages to emerge.

Just slightly Off Topic. And no one has ever discussed THAT before.

On the main thread, out of 200+ pages, there are about 25 posts that provide factual information. The rest are opinions, from wild to mild, in all directions. Speculative confirmation of earlier speculation. To be expected, in this type of weighty situation, but hard to slog through them all.

Nice for the "guy", but irrelevant to anything happening here.

Most people, I would think, don't want this happening, casting a pall on a popular hobby. Although a few CGC haters are overjoyed. For me, it won't have any direct effect. I'm just tired of the fear mongers and alarmists out there speculating about how the sky will fall. The reality will be that almost nothing will happen, almost nothing will change in the marketplace. And far from sitting back, you are yelling fire in a crowded theater. For some reason you are trying to create fear and doubt in people's minds. Your ludicrous statement, as soon as your 4 day detention was over, something like "worst case scenario" was made to stir the pot, see if people would fall in to your way of thinking. I believe a couple did, so success??? And now you want to plant some naive idea that everyone is at home sharpening screwdrivers in preparation of a mass comic substitution hysteria. There's one on every forum, and you're that guy.

The non-MVS Hulk 181 cannot be raw. It has to already be in a capsule/well to be swapped in as a unit, unless you have also seen a video of someone swapping raw comics into sealed capsules. Doing that is not at all like popping a frame. Gonna look bad, if you could even do it. Maybe if you have your own supply of inner wells and frames. And the sealing equipment, another 5 figures for that. I won't say someone won't try. There's always some yahoo who will try anything, like getting their tongue frozen to a metal pole. People doing this every day, all day? No, not going to happen. It's a fantasy, all in your imagination. One in a million (which is still too many).

It's not as easy as it sounds, and may require very deep pockets. Keep in mind that you are going to need 2 CGC copies. Let's say you don't have either, but you want to get a blue 9.4 and a green 9.0 to swap in for it. Besides the crack and reseal challenge, you'll have to pony up about $16k for the components. And take your chances that you are not found out. If you want to start higher up, a green 9.2 into a blue 9.6 case, that will cost you $23k. And if going for big money, no whammies, you need to start out with a $56k 9.8 blue. Then find something green that could pass for a 9.8, which sure won't be easy. At least another 10 grand for that, totaling $66k+. So now, armed with your sharpened screwdriver in one hand and your trusty heat gun in the other, you stare down at $66k worth of comics and you're gonna risk the crack and reseal. Hope you had some practice. Yeah, tons of people every day will be doing this. No. And the lower the grades, to make it more affordable to do it, the reward drops exponentially. Low grade green CGC copies really aren't a lot less than their blue counterparts. Not enough to incur the risk.

A lot of gloom and doom here. The grading and slabbing of comics is just an evolution. A lot of people like it, or it wouldn't have grown into the enterprise it is today. I see it only getting bigger as the years pass, like it or not.

100% correct. The one that killed me a few pages back was the post quoting himself to bump his "Comic Apocalypse" that apparently did not get the response and affinity he was hoping for. But at least now all his Prepping will pay off.