Lightning55

I don't believe a "moderator" has made single comment in this thread to date. At least no official CGC moderator has. Might have been some self-appointed moderator. I must have skipped a page.

Then why is the AI stuff back here? Not enough eyes on it in its own thread? Just the 2 or 3 interested parties rehashing the subject, no audience? It's such a distant topic from this one.

I thought we got rid of this subject a while back and sent it to another thread (that got locked).

Getting harder to tell them apart. Actually, just over 8 billion humans on the planet. I wonder what year it was that we overtook the rat count. Certainly they must have had the lead for a long time.

Definitely Stock In Trade. Common error. Like the one a few pages back referring to artwork "providence". It is provenance, a documented or oral history, or lineage. Providence means good fortune.

We've all "concluded" that he removed the original 9.8. But if he was able to cleanly remove the label only from the original legit 9.8, and substitute it for the scam comic's label in that slab, he would now have the legit label with the scam comic. Same as swapping the inner wells. The labels are right at the top, easier to get to. The plastic outer holders are probably identical, so impossible to say which inner parts went where. Maybe all 3 parts have to have the cert# lasered on. Like cars have VINs in several key places, some locations known only to the manufacturer and law enforcement. And reholders get all new numbers, with a reference on the registry page to the retired number, for a paper trail.

I don't think that CGC ever stated that they open inner wells to reholder. Someone posted the blurb from the website earlier, maybe twice. It only talks about the grade not changing if there is no obvious reason for it to change. Nothing about the process.

You've "heard"? They have had pressing available for maybe 20 years! Nothing slips past you.

It is confusing, and sometimes not even related. The scammer might have bought a legitimate 9.8 to put the illegitimate book into its slab. All nearby numbers would be from the same legit submission, so not telling us anything. The scammer is likely re-submitting the legit comics pulled from the 9.8 slabs. Then, if the scheme repeats, that number is helpful to determine adjacent numbers that were probably destined for ensuing scams. So you have to check all and hope to see some common factors. Reholders and new grading will never be in the same submission, just not set up that way or allowed.

Notes on comics in the mid-high 9's are practically nonexistent. Perfect for someone scamming with 9.8's.

There are no eBay fees until a payment is made, so eBay would not care. If payment is made and he has to refund, the fees get refunded. So eBay fees are a complete non-factor.

As a one-off situation, you could claim you got lucky, had no knowledge. As a repeated pattern, it's intentional. It's fraud.

It doesn't matter. The 9.6 (or 9.4, or 9.2) is typically a MJ Newsstand variant, which will now show as a 9.8. That combination sends the value into the stratosphere, like 5x to 10x. He could toss the original 9.8 and still be miles ahead.

I was caught up last night, but it took me almost 4 hours this afternoon to catch up again. I may have to bail, too much life consumed on this.

It depends on the type of re-sub. If a re-sub for just a new holder, same cert #, unless CGC sees a reason to regrade (possible damage, scs, etc.). If regraded, new cert#. If a re-sub from CPR, to try for a better grade, it's treated as a raw and gets a new cert#.

This thread is so long and varied, it's grown into a complete wardrobe. We need an Index of Topics just to keep it straight.

Yes, I just got there. The posts are coming in faster than I can read and refresh. 4 posts just came while I was typing this one. But I do know enough to not jump in on page 48 with a comment or a question without reading the thread.

If you had read a few pages back, a lawyer chimed in with a laundry list of potential offenses, mostly Federal.

I hope it deters some people from submitting. My TAT'S will improve. At the value strata I work with, none of this has any impact.

This is only half true. It could be from marrying, one possibility. It could also be exactly like the 252 and 181 in question. Scammer buys a legit 181, removes it, puts in the MVS-less copy. Seals it to a good enough level to fool CGC, maybe even has some minor frame damage that would not look suspicious to be asking for a reholder. Sends it in, gets reholder, retains same cert#. Resubmits original 181 for grading to get a new blue cert#, repeats the process.

They've always had scans, but kept for their own internal use. And you could have a high res scan sent to you for a $5 fee paid with submission. Still can, I believe. Now they make them public on the lookup page, low res, from a certain date, a few months back. They did not go backwards and add scans to previously graded registry records.

Exactly. Allegedly.

But it is what happened here, if you read from the beginning. The original cert did not have MJ, because it wasn't MJ. The seller took the original book out, put a lower grade MJ book in, resealed it. Sent it back, said it was an error on CGC'S part, mislabeled. Got them to fix the label and reholder it, same cert. All this "allegedly", of course.

That's the point - the label did not say MJ, and fixing that error was the pretense for reholdering it. If challenged that it was labeled incorrectly, for something that is inside the book, you have to open the inner capsule to check. Or at least you are supposed to. Yes, you might see some evidence of the insert from the edges, but you shouldn't draw a conclusion from that. You open it and verify.

If you are trying to convince someone that the comic in the slab is MJ, and it doesn't state it on the label, or in the notes, or on the lookup page, why would they take your word for it. You need that verification on the label, or a fool for a buyer.