William-James88

4.0 

44 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

According to the grading information I recall, a book in Very Good (3.5 - 4.5) can have the following defects: Moderate to heavy spine roll. 2" spine split. Ragged spine. Small amounts of tape. Reading crease that breaks color. Moderate size piece out. Moderate stains. Heavy rust on staples. And, believe it or not: Centerfold detached. 

Right, but from what I gather, that centrefold detached component from the grading information has it's own variance depending on whether it is detached at one staple or not. For instance, as was discussed in the thread I link to below, the overstreet guide says that the grades in the VG range are only applicable to a centrefold detached at one staple. 

I do thank you all for the grades. 2.5-3.0 sounds fair.

FYI, this was graded as a 7.0 from heritage https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/superhero/captain-marvel-adventures-48-fawcett-publications-1945-condition-fn-vf/a/121937-15586.s

Pretty sure they didn't check the back of the book. Because if they did and still thought it was a 7.0, then I'm concerned. 

1 minute ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

CBCS does have options to send a single invoice, however, it's pricey. It might be the same cost/book when factoring in multiple shipments (CGC) vs up-charge (CBCS).

Until CBCS actually fixes their customer service, I don't suggest anyone submits thru them. CGC, IMO, does a tremendous job of 'making things right'. A ton of people have problems even getting a response from Voldemort. Many times in my life I have been a repeat customer based on customer service. Bad service will always remove you from my consideration. It makes all of the difference to me.

I don't find any value in "verified" signatures. I simply can't trust them. I'd rather buy a raw book that a signature appears authentic on, than a graded book with someone else's opinion on the signature. That's just a personal preference, though.

Thats a very good point.

1 hour ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

I wouldn't say that by default CBCS always grades higher. They're CGC's only legitimate competitor. They do a good job at what they're paid to do. They have a lot of shortcomings, though.

CGC has the advantage of Census and Registry - as well as long-standing reputation. Brand recognition.

CBCS has the advantage of not having a Newton Ring problem.

CBCS falls very short of customer service satisfaction (from my observations). The upside is that they know they have problems and are claiming, at least, that they're being worked on (in focus).

Where CGC, in my mind, is the golden ticket; They don't "verify" signatures. They only authenticate via chain of custody.

Factor in all of these things and you get the answer to the equation. It's not just grade of opinion, but overall brand quality.

Thanks for the response man, it's all very much appreciated.

Another thing I didn't find fun with CGC was that the tiers could not be combined in an order (at least, the last time I did it). Which ups the cost of shipping back, especially for people outside the US like me. And it would be extra tricky when a tier only applied up until a certain amount of value and yet the value of the book was dependent on the grade. So I would have multiple books from the same era (for instance, low grade copies of the 5th, 6th and 7th issue of Fantastic 4) but because 1 was key, it was valued more and thus I would have to set up a different order for it than the others. There are several cases where I didn't need the faster tier but because the book was valued as over 1000, I had no option but to take it. I have not looked into how CBCS does that so it might be the same but if they allow different grading tiers in the same order form then that could be another advantage. 

Also, verifying signatures can be real handy for Stan Lee signatures that were free/unwitnessed (I have some).

2 hours ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Yeah... No.

TOS39 and Iron Man #1 in CGC are 33% more expensive than in CBCS. As are all "keys".

Any Modern that I've ever wanted is always cheaper in a CBCS case.

It's not a matter of "belief".

Thanks. I was looking more at golden age books, which is more my bag (I was never able to get into moderns from a collectible sense). And yeah I checked for some silver age keys to see for myself and CBCS is indeed cheaper, but not by as much as 33% for the examples I searched. Like the Amazing Fantasy 15s I compared (sold same year) had less of a 10% difference in price sold. CGC was consistently higher though.

The idea is that since it is presumed that CBCS grades higher, then you spend less thinking it might not be the right grade right? 

1 hour ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

5.5 IMO.

Thanks, much appreciated!

1 hour ago, The Lions Den said:

You could send this to CCS to see if they could reattach it for you. As long as it's the original centerfold, you may still be able to get a blue label out of it. And this looks nicer than a 2.0, even with the detached centerfold...

Thanks for the tip. How much nicer would you say? Like what grade would you be comfortable recieving it as?

3 hours ago, Badger said:

Not my book and if you Google you can find dozens of others at lower grades.

Those are all examples that are to CGC's discretion, I was referring to the general guidelines. Also, while it says centrefold detached, could that not also mean that it was never attached, aka loose or would that have a different wording on a slab? Because there is a grading distinction between a  defect done at production (so staples that never went through the centrefold) and a defect done through use, like ripping off the centrefold. Basically, the book I posted is far from a 5.0 and I think it's a 2.0. I have posted it in the spare a grade forum to see how others in the forum judge it, in case I am being too harsh. You are welcome to let me know what you think

Pretty sure those are coffee stains, though it can be of any other brown liquid. Let me know what you'd grade this as, not sure how much to deduct with the stains.

Pretty sure this is a 2.0, I know I wouldn't feel comfortable selling it for more than that. But there's been discussion of the various impact of the detached centrefold (which in this case has been torn off) and CGC does differ from the overstreet grading guide so I wanted your input too.

2 minutes ago, revat said:

depending on when you bought it, you should send heritage a note and express your dissatisfaction.  They might be able to help you out, they might not.  But I don't think it hurts to try,

good luck.

That's very kind of you. I did contact them, it's not the first time such a thing happens. It will all work out I am sure. I will probably send the book back and get my money back (minus initial shipping to me). I just wish it didn't happen anymore, you know? It's an embarrassing waste of time for all parties involved that I have to point out something to "america's auction house" that could have been solved if the grader just bothered taking the book out of the bag and board and turning it around.

8 minutes ago, Unstoppablejayd said:

Thanks

Yea if that is the case I would go by that (and you now have me thinking about any raw books I bought from them and how closely I checked). 

My 4.0 w detached cover was a pretty book other then that, honestly it is crappy story because either I missed the detachment or it happened while there.. I had expected a 7/8 grade when I sent it out.

Aw man, I really feel for you there. As for double checking, please do. They will honour their mistake. Like you, I trusted their grading and didn't open a book until years later and when I noticed a mistake, I sent it back and got my money. But it's a hassle none of us need and basically flipping through a book to ensure the quality should not be too much to ask from a comic dealer. Especially golden age books where only kids were reading it then and there were a bunch of things to fill out and cut out. Honestly, the only US dealer I have had no problems with lately for these types of purchases has been Harley Yee (but you pay the price and you have to physically be there).

I do get the conundrum though. These golden age books are all wonderful and since the slightest bit of mishap in manipulation could result in a loss of over a hundred bucks or more when it comes to its worth, you don't want to touch them sometimes, nor flip through to see if there is indeed a major defect.

On 4/19/2019 at 7:18 AM, namisgr said:

If people really believe CBCS slabbed comics fetch less in the marketplace than their CGC counterparts, why aren't more of you snapping up all the CBCS slabs that are for sale?  It would be an easy process to have them cross-graded and then sold for a tidy profit.

It's because in the end, people just like writing on forums and arguing and don't really believe it. I haven't noticed CBCS fetching for less on the market, to my great chagrin. Quite the opposite, it seems buyers are as confident with them and you can still get incredible results like this 
https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/adventure/frankenstein-comics-2-prize-1946-cbcs-vg-fn-50-cream-to-off-white-pages/a/7211-95144.s?ic2=mybidspage-lotlinks-12202013&tab=MyBids-101116

 

On 1/3/2020 at 5:45 PM, Deadpoolica said:

6.0

On 1/3/2020 at 7:44 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

5.0 IMO.

Ok thanks. Just as a warning, here is the place I bought it from, claiming it is a VF- (7.5)
https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/captain-marvel-adventures-90-fawcett-publications-1948-condition-vf-/a/121941-13453.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

10 minutes ago, Unstoppablejayd said:

it depends on who's standards you are going by. CGC allows it.. I have even had a detached cover at a 4.0 from CGC

Thanks. I am going by the standards set by those who sold it to me. In any case, a ripped off centrefold (which is what it is in this case, if that makes a difference) was not mentioned in the listing. Added to the fact that they also missed cut coupons, and other ripped centrefolds from various other comics I ordered from them, I suspect that they simply graded by the cover and didn't open the book to check. 

Question for you though (love your avatar by the way), did that 4.0 book you mention look like a 4.0 in general, regardless of the detached cover? 

1 hour ago, Badger said:

Nice book! Detached centerfold does not bring the grade down to 2.0 all by itself. It can be a 5.0 with a detached centerfold.  

If it's the wrong place to discuss it, please let me know. But I really thought that was not the case. I mean good news if it is, but from everything I gathered, that would go against the overstreet standards (assuming the book looks like what I posted).

The place I bought it from posted their grading standards to show buyers what to expect from the grades they state https://comics.ha.com/tutorial/comics-grading.s?show=comicdefinitions

And in it, we have this:

4.0 VERY GOOD (VG):   Centerfold may be loose or detached at one staple.

3.0 GOOD/VERY GOOD (GD/VG):   Centerfold may be loose or detached at one staple. Minor to moderate interior tears may be present.

2.0 GOOD (GD):   Centerfold may be loose or detached. Moderate interior tears may be present.

Unless we are talking green label (which this book wouldn't fit), it really seems a detached centrefold would bring the grade down to a 2.0. 

The census shows only 6 of Captain Marvel Adventures 88, here are two more I recently got.

On 12/18/2019 at 3:00 PM, Ricksneatstuff said:

 give care and attention to every item in my experience.
  

Far from what I've been experiencing.

Here's a few examples of the garbage I have to deal with right now from Heritage. 

Whoever is grading these days doesnt seem to bother opening up the book, they have too much to get through, which is great for sellers selling incomplete raw books. From what I've been experiencing sellers could just write whatever grade they want in the back of a book and Heritage will just go along with it without double checking. Fun for those submitting but a nightmare for those buying. Feels like ebay amature hour.

Here's the last example for now (if anyone is entertained and wants more, I have lots more to show).

This one further proves that they didn't even take the book out of the bag and board when assessing it. Because if they would have they would have seen that it completely falls apart. Of course none of that mentioned in this listing where it comes from. https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/captain-marvel-adventures-group-of-6-fawcett-publications-1948-condition-vg-total-6-/a/121946-15449.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

They didn't even notice that it's missing the upper staple.

I find this next one very frustrating since it shows how no one speaks to one another at the company. Here is a Captain marvel 90 https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/captain-marvel-adventures-90-fawcett-publications-1948-condition-vf-/a/121941-13453.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515.

As you can read in the listing, it was assessed as a 7.5. When I received it, it was clearly from a previous dealer who had marked 7.5 on the back of the board. Now, Heritage took that mark at face value, the person grading it didn't even bother taking it out of the bag and board they received it in. I know that because if they would have they would have seen that there is a piece missing from the back leading into a tear. Along with the staple tear for the upper staple, this is nowhere near a 7.5. Which makes it rather embarrassing because another department clearly had to remove it to scan the book and post it in the auction.  Here are my scans of this "7.5" book.

Ok so here are some examples of how careless Heritage has become in its grading. I will do 3 posts so that the pics can be associated properly.

From this lot https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/whiz-comics-group-of-8-fawcett-publications-1946-48-total-8-comic-books-/a/121936-14037.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

Captain Marvel 77 was said to be VG, but it had a page missing and a coupon cut and some scotch tape inside too.

2 hours ago, DWL said:

That is a beauty! 

Couple of observations.  First, is that a stain just to the left below the logo on the front cover?  Second, it looks like the bottom staple might be impacted a bit (this looks a little more evident on the back cover).  Finally, the dirt on the back cover might detract a bit from the grade.  Not sure if anyone really knows how CGC deals with ink transfer or whatever that blue line is along the back cover so I am going to be conservative and say the estimated grade would be 7.0 (fine / very fine).

Closer examination is required but I tend to think that is a miscut along the top rather than a trim. 

 

Honestly, I'm not sure what that is below the logo. It could be some dust accumulation or just part of the printing. I could always have it dry cleaned and if it remains then we know what it is. All the imperfections on this book seem to have been there from the get go (like the staple, the blue ink on the back, the cut) and I know both bindery and printing defects are given a pass when it comes to grading golden age books (It's more about the wear and tear since binding) so I'm not sure what I would get from it. Still cool to have a book that's been basically untouched for seven decades.

2 hours ago, D84 said:

Could be a miscut.

It' shoddy printing/cutting. We can tell because the back cover is actually centered properly.  If there was trimming, both sides would seem off. Also this is not the standard US version, it's the canadian version, made differently (less pages, for instance) so the best would be to compare to other examples of such but I didn't find any so far.

On 9/14/2018 at 2:48 PM, FineCollector said:

Does anyone buy from Heritage regularly?  I've heard grumblings of them upping their fees, but does anyone have an opinion on the raw books they're receiving?  I've only bought from them twice, and I think they've missed on the grading both times.  I brought the last transaction to their attention, and I have to say their customer service was impeccable, but my next purchase was another miss. It's small dollar stuff, so I don't want to make a federal case out of it, but I'm curious if these transactions are outliers, or the norm.

Does anyone buy raw from Heritage, and if you do, are you happy with the grading, or do you allow for an overgrade?

Heritage used to be my favourite place to buy a book but things must have changed there in the past 5 years since their grading has gone down the pits. And it's not really about how they grade a book but how they rush grading. All the issues I have are when they clearly did not flip through the book to see if there is an issue with it or when they take a previous written grade (like a dealer unloading his stuff to them) at face value without further checking. So it's more with taking the time of double checking rather than the actual grade. I will post a few examples later when I have the time. Their customer service is good, but returning comics when someone couldn't bother to examine the back of a book sounds beyond amateurish from a company claiming to be the best. It's a hassle I don't need and for golden age books, I think I am better off just buying from Harley Yee at a show.