B-Smooth

More about Unity (1992)...

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97% of the 80,000,000+ books printed by Valiant from 1991 to 1996 are Unity or later (post-Unity). More than 60,000,000 total books (400 different issues) are specifically post-Unity Valiant from 1993 and 1994. Literally fewer than 3,000,000 total books (54 different issues) are pre-Unity Valiant. That's 3% of Valiant comics from the 1990s that were pre-Unity books, but they were the goal for Valiant collectors during the industry boom. That 3% now represents the "classic Valiant" that has become central to "Valiant nostalgia" today.

 

Today, many (available) Valiant collections (and dealer inventories) contain very few pre-Unity books... sometimes 99% to 100% of even large Valiant collections are post-Unity. Valiant books like Harbinger #1 were once "grails" for Valiant collectors... which was a whole lot of people on the early 1990s... during the boom. Those same 1990s collectors often collected Image, but books like Spawn #1 were always easy to obtain. Collectors from the 1990s often had "unfilled holes" in their collections specifically for pre-Unity Valiant... but they had full runs of Image, Marvel, or DC representing the same time period. As a result, during the boom, it was the Valiant pre-Unity books that became grails almost across the board for all types of modern collectors. There were definitely more collectors who were focused on current Marvel, DC, and/or Image... but those collections were very easy to complete at the time.

 

A pre-Unity Valiant collection was mostly an "incomplete" or a "don't-bother-they-are-too-expensive" or a "maybe-someday-when-I-can-afford-them" aspect of comic collecting in the early 1990s. After the market crash, pretty much all comics from the early 1990s plummeted. No one wanted to touch anything early-to-mid 1990s. But there was never more than 3% pre-Unity Valiant in the first place. Many collections that were dumped during the "industry crash" into the open market were 99% post-Unity in the Valiant boxes, plus tons of Image, Marvel, DC., etc.

 

It was possible to obtain the pre-Unity Valiant books for cheap in the late 1990s, post-crash...

but there was not an easy source for a "longbox of Harbinger #1" the way there were many unopened cases of Rai #9 or even Spawn #1. But the "boom" (and huge increases in print runs) happened after Unity.

 

All that unsold dealer stock (from those closing comic shops / sportscard shops) was unsold post-Unity Valiant, plus Reign of the Supermen, plus Azrael Batman, etc. Unsold post-Unity Valiant is often cited as the 1990s drek that still sits unsold, even today. Regardless of the actual quality of the post-Unity books, there are still just far too many in print for them to be anywhere but unsold in today's smaller market. 97% of Valiant probably is drek, from an unsold inventory standpoint.

 

Returning collectors who remember Valiant are usually one of two types (numbered just for convenience, not official labels):

 

Valiant Type 1) They remember Valiant because they bought post-Unity Valiant in the 1993-1994 timeframe

Valiant Type 2) They remember Valiant as junk because post-Unity Valiant was sitting unsold for so many years at their comic shops

Very, very few returning collectors are Valiant Type 3) They actually had the pre-Unity Valiant books.

 

A lot of both Type 1 and Type 2 collectors wanted pre-Unity Valiant back-in-the-day, but not many actually had them. Unfortunately, a lot of collectors and dealers still around (or returning) today think they were Type 3, but they were actually Type 1. When you get them to physically go check their collections, they usually have Rai #9 and up, Harbinger #10 and up, Solar #16 and up, etc.

 

I was a Type 1 who wished he could have been a Type 3, but I had very few pre-Unity books in 1994 when I stopped collecting (like many people). When I returned to collecting in the late 1990s, I was fortunate enough to buy pre-Unity books during the lowest post-crash market, earliest years of Ebay (pre-2000).

 

Today... you can throw into the mix Valiant Type 4) Never collected Valiant in the 1990s, but they know about the new line currently being published (since 2012). It's easy to see that all 4 types provide potential buyers for the pre-Unity Valiant books in the current market, particularly those pre-Unity issues with 20+ year old first appearances for characters still being published.

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NOTE: Unity was the 1992 storyline for Valiant and it is the Unity in terms like "pre-Unity" and "post-Unity". The current Valiant titles include a title called "Unity". That new Unity title is 2013-present, and isn't part of these kinds of "pre-Unity" discussions.

Thank you, sir. Much appreciated. So, would your 10.0 Rai be the Action 1 of the Valiant universe?

Wait, wha?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Age-Annual-4-FIRST-DAMAGE-CONTROL-PREVIEW-VF-Great-Shape-Art-Adams-/371458036209?hash=item567c9fd1f1

 

Wait, previews can be first appearances?

Gobbledygook 1?

There's too much meat in this thread.

*

*not that there's anything wrong with that.

Cram on, brother! Learn me some Valiant.

So why are the "pre-unity" books more valuable than post- unity ones?

 

My original A&A 0 Gold I received directly from Valiant.

 

 

 

 

 

Bosco,

 

That is incredible that you have your original gold book and it was graded a 9.8. Congrats!

That is amazing. Especially a mailed book.

Very cool stuff. This is why I started this thread. To kind of put stuff in one place, and learn about Valiant books. I wish it would get the sticky, as these books were a huge part of the later half of the copper age.

 

There is so much cool Valiant stories and characters and marketing goodies that can be posted in here over time.

 

Even the Doctor Silk bookmark you only received by purchasing a hobby magazine as an insert.

That's whata mean. I needs an edumacation in the Valiant arts. Like this pre-post- unity stuff I've heard about. I really just don't know anything about the company.

There is an entire thread devoted to non-comic Valiant ephemera on Valiantman's website (started, I believe, by the current CEO of Valiant, before he owned the rights to the characters).

Yes, you've mentioned these things several times. I'm only asking to put it here. Is there some kind of issue you're having with this blasphemy?

 

 

Yes, let's take Greg's 10+ year in the making repository of all things Valiant and cram it in this one thread!

Now we're talking!

Very cool stuff. This is why I started this thread. To kind of put stuff in one place, and learn about Valiant books. I wish it would get the sticky, as these books were a huge part of the later half of the copper age.

 

There is so much cool Valiant stories and characters and marketing goodies that can be posted in here over time.

 

Even the Doctor Silk bookmark you only received by purchasing a hobby magazine as an insert.

That's whata mean. I needs an edumacation in the Valiant arts. Like this pre-post- unity stuff I've heard about. I really just don't know anything about the company.

There is an entire thread devoted to non-comic Valiant ephemera on Valiantman's website (started, I believe, by the current CEO of Valiant, before he owned the rights to the characters).

Yes, you've mentioned these things several times. I'm only asking to put it here. Is there some kind of issue you're having with this blasphemy?

Very cool stuff. This is why I started this thread. To kind of put stuff in one place, and learn about Valiant books. I wish it would get the sticky, as these books were a huge part of the later half of the copper age.

 

There is so much cool Valiant stories and characters and marketing goodies that can be posted in here over time.

 

Even the Doctor Silk bookmark you only received by purchasing a hobby magazine as an insert.

That's whata mean. I needs an edumacation in the Valiant arts. Like this pre-post- unity stuff I've heard about. I really just don't know anything about the company.

How many copies of the Turok #1 VVSS with the Dr. Mirage #1 VVSS COA have turned up over the past 5 - 10 years? When I sold mine to another member on Greg's boards way back when it was the second one that I had heard of.

 

Did a complete VVSS Dr. Mirage #1 ever turn up?

 

 

Nope. As far as I know, there have only been two copies of the Dr. Mirage #1 VVSS certificate.

 

From what I can tell, the actual book that accompanies the Dr. Mirage #1 VVSS certificate is meaningless.

This is the part where the un-initiated ask what that all means?

 

Valiant had its own "Valiant Validated Signature Series" (VVSS) in the mid-1990s, which would take between around 800 to 5,500 copies of some of the higher print run books and have them signed with an official Valiant witness.

 

They came with a VVSS certificate:

 

The certificate from Valiant was intended to make them more "official" than a lot of the signed books of the time which were from special signings at comic shops or made-for-tv-sales like QVC... those weren't official Valiant products.

 

There were about 12 or so books that were released as VVSS.

 

The Second Life of Dr. Mirage #1 was supposed to be a VVSS release, but it never happened.

 

However, the official VVSS certificate (COA) for a Dr. Mirage #1 was found accompanying a copy of the Turok #1 VVSS.

It was as if the Valiant worker pulled the wrong certificate to stick with the book.

 

Only two of those Dr. Mirage #1 VVSS certificates have ever been found... though it's conceivable there are more out there because there are thousands of VVSS books.

 

To date, it's just two... and one of those two Dr. Mirage #1 VVSS certificates was sliced almost in two, as if it had been meant for destruction... which is likely, since the VVSS book was never released.

 

The Dr. Mirage #1 VVSS certificate (by itself) sold for a few hundred dollars, I believe.

Very cool. This is why I started this thread. To kind of put stuff in one place, and learn about Valiant books. I wish it would get the sticky, as these books were a huge part of the later half of the copper age.

How many copies of the Turok #1 VVSS with the Dr. Mirage #1 VVSS COA have turned up over the past 5 - 10 years? When I sold mine to another member on Greg's boards way back when it was the second one that I had heard of.

 

Did a complete VVSS Dr. Mirage #1 ever turn up?

 

 

Nope. As far as I know, there have only been two copies of the Dr. Mirage #1 VVSS certificate.

 

From what I can tell, the actual book that accompanies the Dr. Mirage #1 VVSS certificate is meaningless.

This is the part where the un-initiated ask what that all means?

What's the deal with the three staples?

I need to start picking up some Valiants.

True. I like the 266 cover better, in spite of the Dee Snyder inspired, purple thong combo he's sporting.

Up to $15k. That absolutely F'n stupid for that book. Someone is going to lose their shirt in a few years when the price returns to normal levels.. That or someone is trolling the auction.

 

Just as many other books have proven, we will probably think this a bargain in the future.

 

Boston Corbett salutes you

Who may also turn out to be a mad genius if NM98 keeps going up in price. The $15K for the 10.0 could also be a "bargain" some day.

Loves my new beater.

 

You could totally press that to a 9.6.............

I was hoping for a 9.8, though. Seriously though, I may have to use a blacklight, and spray some luminol on it before reading it.

-Annual 14. Hey look... There's Gambit, and on several pages! BAM!! First appearance.

- Xmen 266. Hey look.. It's Gambit again, but only after we saw him several times in Annual 14.

BAM!! Second appearance.

 

I guess I'm just too literal for this whole comic book business.

At this point, I think everyone that's visiting this thread acknowledges what was printed first. But in my mind, it's:

 

Annual 14. Hey look... There's Gambit, a character who's not particularly integral to the story being published.

 

Xmen 266. Hey look.. It's Gambit again, in a story that was pretty clearly written to be an introduction to the character if the publishing schedule of one annual per week during the summer didn't necessitate publishing the annual before the intro that serves as a better introduction.

 

Again, I have one copy of 266, which isn't leaving my collection any time soon. I have several copies of the annual, two of which are coming back from CGC soon. It's in my financial best interest for people to value the annual more, but IMO 266 is still the more desirable of the two, despite the fact that the annual was published first, and I would imagine has the lower print run.

Only in the world of comics does that logic make sense. The "first full appearance", being thought of as an actual 1st appearance, even though it is not factually true. The Hulk 180/181 debate, and now this. Whether he's integral or not. Or a plant sitting in the corner of several panels, is irrelevant. CGC, collectors with investments, and just stubborn people will never let the obvious take hold.. Gambit's first appearance is Annual 14. Period. All else is just jibba- jabbah.

And Hulk 180 is the first appearance of Wolverine.

Cool stuff. I missed the boat because of stupid girls.

 

That's why you meet the right one early on in life and then you don't have to chase more needlessly.

 

Sounds great, in theory. But I had to sift through an entire mine to find the right gem.

Loves my new beater.

Most of those are in modern for some reason. And I'm too lazy to go through all of those. So if you'd like to contribute, be my guest. If not, send this over to the modern wasteland to be buried amongst the variant and Walking Dead threads.

 

Hey, I tried.

 

No one wants to make a "Modern Comics" and "New Comics" forum distinction, so everything from whenever anyone decides is "modern", whether it's 1990, 1992, 1995, or whatever, gets buried in "what's the latest hot Spider Gwen variant coming out????"

 

You can forget trying to discuss comics that came out in, oh, say, 1997.

 

It is sad. There's so many great books that got lumped in with the junk from 1993-1999, and they have no real place to go. The powers that be, moved the Harley thread I started here to the variant age (modern) section. To me ,there's nothing really "modern" about a 22 year old comic. Maybe some day there will be a "dark age", or "chromium age", or something along those lines? I won't hold my breath. Maybe a poll is needed?

 

I requested, was told a "poll" was needed. I have no interest in starting that poll, because I don't wish the results to be swayed by personal feelings.

 

Maybe you could.

But for years you've seen the futility of polls in this place. I'd hate to waste words, and start another war. Better to just lump it all in with copper books. All eight of us who read and post here know enough collectively, anyway.

I stopped collecting comics around 1990, so I missed the whole Valiant craze.

 

So my introduction to Valiant Comics was when a reseller I knew mailed me a copy of Archer & Armstrong #0 to make me aware of this fairly new company while deployed with the Army. I was locked in from there!

 

And for the next year or two, it was loads of fun watching this wonderful company expand its hobby influence. I phoned the Marketing department one time to inquire how I could purchase a Gold Variant of my now beloved Archer & Armstrong #0 and was surprised to have Steve Massarsky pick up. It was a short but friendly discussion, and he gave me the address to write in and share my love of the company. Afterwards, they sent me my first Archer & Armstrong #0 Gold in a thick white mailer.

 

Around 1993-1994, Valiant encouraged comic book groups to celebrate its success across the country by creating a party kit. It included free Gold Variant books, a video to be played at the party where creators shared the road ahead, and art sample sheets that contained images of future stories and characters. Also, a quiz of Valiant character history which was to be conducted at the party so attendees could win those Gold Variant books. I won the VHS tape and the sample sheets, and later on also picked up the Valiant quiz sheet.

 

A few years back I posted pictures of that party kit I had won, and received a message from Dinesh Shamdasani (Valiant Entertainment co-founder) asking if he could purchase the kit from me. They wanted to use the sample sheet art in some of the hardcover collections. So he is the owner of that celebration kit now. I still have the Valiant quiz sheet, which is a fun and unique little piece of what made this company great.

 

Cool stuff. I missed the boat because of stupid girls.

I can't believe Valiantman hasn't started this over the last 10 years.

 

 

 

Oh, because my NAME is Valiantman you think I like Valiant comics?

 

Sorry... I'm a fan of Prince Valiant.

 

Terrible, terrible Sunday paper fodder. Don't insult your name like that!

-Annual 14. Hey look... There's Gambit, and on several pages! BAM!! First appearance.

- Xmen 266. Hey look.. It's Gambit again, but only after we saw him several times in Annual 14.

BAM!! Second appearance.

I guess I'm just too literal for this whole comic book business.

Who is this Doug? And we're can I buy his turtle books

You won't find a stricter grader in the business. He may be a bit pricey at times, but you know what you're getting. I've probably bought a couple of dozen books off of him, and every single one of them I had graded were graded by him the same, or higher. And he's a really good guy.

It is sad. There's so many great books that got lumped in with the junk from 1993-1999, and they have no real place to go. The powers that be, moved the Harley thread I started here to the variant age (modern) section. To me ,there's nothing really "modern" about a 22 year old comic. Maybe some day there will be a "dark age", or "chromium age", or something along those lines? I won't hold my breath. Maybe a poll is needed?

 

Could make it even more complex.

 

Rethinking Comic Book History

 

Pre-Modern (1933 and earlier)

 

Nascent Age (1933-1938)

 

Golden Age (1938-1949)

-First Heroic Era (1938-1955)

 

Genre Age (1950-1958)

- Code Era (1955-1958)

- Second Heroic Era (1956-1986)

 

Silver Age (1958-1968)

 

Neo-Silver Age (1968-1986)

 

Post-Heroic Age (1986-Present)

- Third Heroic Era (1986-Present)

Reading hurt.

Most of those are in modern for some reason. And I'm too lazy to go through all of those. So if you'd like to contribute, be my guest. If not, send this over to the modern wasteland to be buried amongst the variant and Walking Dead threads.

 

Hey, I tried.

 

No one wants to make a "Modern Comics" and "New Comics" forum distinction, so everything from whenever anyone decides is "modern", whether it's 1990, 1992, 1995, or whatever, gets buried in "what's the latest hot Spider Gwen variant coming out????"

 

You can forget trying to discuss comics that came out in, oh, say, 1997.

 

It is sad. There's so many great books that got lumped in with the junk from 1993-1999, and they have no real place to go. The powers that be, moved the Harley thread I started here to the variant age (modern) section. To me ,there's nothing really "modern" about a 22 year old comic. Maybe some day there will be a "dark age", or "chromium age", or something along those lines? I won't hold my breath. Maybe a poll is needed?