PokemanDude90

That Sabrina card looks like a 10 to me. We've been conditioned to hope for 9's haven't we. 

Typically, a 5 or 6 on an otherwise great looking card is due to a significant dent, usually a binder dent from a 3-ring binders.

If the card does NOT have a dent, you might want to send it back to CGC for review/regrade because mistakes can happen. 

On 12/28/2021 at 10:31 PM, zorloth said:

I've had pretty much the exact same experience. But in my case, everything gets 8.5s (or 9s) regardless of condition. For example: 

The top two cards I literally pulled from packs this year. The Mudkip has very bad centering, but the cards are otherwise obviously mint. The bottom two cards aren't even close to pack fresh -- they're in PSA 8-9 condition but have subtle surface wear that clearly isn't factory damage.

These four cards are objectively not in the same condition. The top two are mint, and the bottom two are what I'd describe as NM. The fact that all four cards got the same grade is utterly bizarre to me. I have tons of other similar examples I could give. My conclusion is that CGC's grading scale is unable to distinguish between mint and NM cards. They are either being too loose with NM cards or too strict with mint cards (or both).

 

CGC 8.5 encompasses the entire PSA 7-10 range. And then CGC 9 encompasses the PSA 9-10 range. And then CGC 9.5s are basically unicorns (for pre-2008 English holos -- of course, modern and/or Japanese cards are a different ball game).

I agree with you that the 8.5 grade compasses a WIDE range of grades when compared to competitors and I'll give my two cents to further back up what you're saying. For me, I find a lot of raw cards and grade them (early EX era, e-readers, etc.) and I know when I've found a gold-mine where someone sleeved their cards right out of the pack (mint) vs the more commonly available NM cards. There's nothing worse than telling myself, "this has a legit shot at a CGC 9.5" as I put the card in the Card Saver to send off, only for it to return a 8.5, and the card with obvious wear gets the same grade. 

What I think this stems from is CGC's grading scale, which does itself absolutely no favors with how 'short' it gets at the top. The scale itself doesn't allow proper differentiation of cards at the top of the grading scale because the top of the grading scale is off limits to 99% of card starting at the 9.5 grade. 

10's are basically impossible on vintage stuff, so 9.5 is your best case scenario. Well, 9.5 turns out to be just as hard if not harder to get than a PSA 10. So effectively, if you're grading a vintage English card you're squeezed into this narrow window of CGC 8.5 to CGC 9.5 (mostly CGC 8.5 and CGC 9) and thus we see the massive range in actual card condition.

If I posted my recent results of cracking CGC slabs and sending to a competitor for better grades it would be the Poke-topic of the day in the community and I'd probably get a call from someone at CGC. 

Look... not everything is a CGC 8.5 guys. Let me say that again: NOT EVERYTHING IS A CGC 8.5.

When I can crack multiple CGC 8.5 slabs and literally get 10's at other reputable grading companies (not one of these new amateur-hour startups, I'm talking one of the long-standing pillars in the community) maybe it's time to look into things in the grading room. 

My recent Bulk return had 6 straight holos from 2004 (FRLG - Pokemon) that all got the SAME EXACT SUBGRADES and of course got CGC 8.5, surprise surprise. The odds of that happening organically are basically 0 from a probability standpoint. This is the stuff I'm talking about. 

Welcome to the show. 

So happy I waited 6 months for my bulk sub to get 8's and 8.5's!

Can't wait to spend the extra time and energy and money to crack many of these to send to a competitor to get the grades they deserve. Such a fun process grading with CGC!

I love 8.5's and the community does too! Yay!!

On 11/23/2021 at 5:58 PM, Tou Thor said:

So has anyone gotten an answer to the centering inconsistencies? Human or ai? I'm a huge supporter of cgc, but the centering truely is quite inconsistent. I have my own subs where that subgrade just makes no sense compared to others.

I don’t think so, and we probably won’t get one either — the plausible deniability is baked right into the grading scale by them not disclosing any hard cutoffs/parameters for centering. 

Couple this with the general sentiment that “CGC grades harshly” and it’s like talking to NPC’s when trying to discuss this stuff with most of the masses. 

Lately for me it’s been basically every subgrade, not just centering, that has been wildly inconsistent — to the point where I’m cracking so many of my own slabs to either resubmit to CGC or a competitor, and my success rate in getting higher grades is high. When I preview my grades and see nothing but 8.5’s I know I’ve got to get my slab cracking scissors ready. 

Whenever I call CGC to see what’s going on with a submission, it is “in line for shipping.”

Long lines are the bane of man’s existence. We hate them. No one likes waiting, for literally anything. 

Disneyland/Disneyworld figured out long lines many years ago: a fast pass. Why are we trying to reinvent the wheel here guys? Isn’t it obvious?

A premium CGC Shipping Fast pass service is what the people need. By paying a premium on top of the premiums we already have paid to grade our cards, we can bypass this shipping line and see our cards sooner.

Disney figured out their waiting in line problem — you just make a 2nd line for the more fortunate. And Disney is the most magical place on earth! Imagine how magical the CGC shipping department would be after rolling this out. Think about it CGC. 

On 10/29/2021 at 8:36 AM, bgreske said:

My 4/26 bulk orders moved from g/e/I to grading/qc last night.  (4/24 bulk still in g/e/i)

Does anyone know how long grading/qc is taking until shipped these days?

About 3-5 days after the original 5-15 day window you think it’ll sit in that status. If that final day lands on a Friday, add an additional 1 day because you’re not getting grades on a Friday don’t even think about it. So anywhere from 8 to 21 days I’d say.

On 10/27/2021 at 6:06 PM, Oreos said:

4/9 Bulk has shipped

My Bulk 04/07 is right behind yours, "in line for shipping"

I'd be so pumped if it shipped tomorrow and I could see my grades before the weekend, which is why I'm very confident it will ship next week. Can't have anyone getting too uppity around here. 

On 10/22/2021 at 11:26 AM, MattTheDuck said:

You get a Board loan, you don't want to miss a payment

 

On 10/22/2021 at 10:52 AM, thehumantorch said:

Is this for real? 

If you're spending money you don't have on Pokémon cards and on grading them and then accessing charities like the food bank you're abusing the system.

I have 3 main priorities in my life (in order of most important first)

1. paying CGC well in advance of my cards shipping back to me thus causing financial strain in other parts of my life
2. keeping my family fed and housed
3. balling out on Pokemon cards relentlessly flexing daily

If I need a little help here and there to make sure these priorities are met is that really such a bad thing? 

Hey guys really hoping I can lean on my fellow Poke-brethren for some advice...

So here's the deal. My credit card keeps getting charged, over and over and over again for my CGC submissions. But the cards I am being charged for aren't shipping back to me. Because I am not an ultra-high net worth individual, I am seeking alternative options namely in the form of a personal loan with an interest rate below 5%. This way, I can keep paying CGC to not return cards to me, while also not becoming homeless in the process. WIN/WIN. 

To give some color, I'm almost out of top ramen which has been my primary food source, but thankfully my local food bank knows me by name at this point so I can get help there from a caloric-intake perspective. 

As for other living expenses, that's really where this small loan will help build up some personal cash reserves while my cards sit in the greatest bottleneck in United States history, which is also known as the CGC Shipping Department. 

Any suggestions? 

Side note: Economy went from the sucker Tier to the GOAT Tier with how fast things are moving along these last few months. 

Friendship with Bulk has ended. Economy is my new best friend. 

These two have been stuck in Grading/Quality Control for 4 days now. Usually by day 4 or 5 they ship. FINGERS CROSSED THEY SHIP TOMORROW BOYS.

On 10/15/2021 at 6:59 AM, iSniipe said:

Unless Stevie wonder and I have something in common.. I can’t see how they can possible justify that these two cards are visually (and physically) equal.

I see you are in the 'denial' stage of grief, and as someone who is in 'acceptance' let me just tell you like it is. Centering is subjective, and there are no actual parameters listed in CGC's grading scale. Forget what you know about 60/40 etc. because it does not apply. I've cracked and resubbed cards and have lost an entire point on Centering. Your Centering is what your grader thinks it is that day, accept that for what it is. 

While this may frustrate you, this is acceptable for most of the community and for CGC as well, so rather than yell at a wall and fight the group-think, I'd work within the system and crack and resub with the hopes of a different grader eyeballing it more favorably. 

On 10/14/2021 at 9:23 AM, Banningjj said:

I have an order that has been in G/E/I for three weeks and just got charged. I thought they only charged once they were done. I also can't understand how my order can be getting graded for 3+ weeks.

 

You're lucky they didn't charge you the minute it went to G/E/I like they have done to many of us. 

I have like 500 cards across various submissions stuck in G/E/I that have been paid for.

Better have some cash reserves to grade w/ CGC is all I have to say. 

On 10/8/2021 at 6:09 PM, panther2 said:

So I have a bulk order that was received 6/28. The status says scheduled for grading which it pretty much has said for over a month now. My received an email that my card was just charged but status has not moved to grading. Is this typical? The process explanations on the website say your card wont be charged until your collectibles enter the grading process.

I see you are also made out of money. We don’t mind fronting money for months while cards sit at CGC. Welcome to the club!

On 10/10/2021 at 7:20 AM, JasonCirceo said:

I called them several times already and keep getting the same answer that my cards have finished grading and the are waiting to be encapsulated but they are extremely back up. They all said I would get my cards in January. They said I may get my cards soon but shouldn’t count on it.

Oh man this better not be true. I have 400+ cards sitting in "Grading/Encapsulation/Imaging" (some for at least 2 weeks now) that I've already been charged for. 

What a brilliant play by CGC btw. Tell your customers they won't be charged until cards reach grading stage, and roll out a 2nd grading phase to collect money from Customers earlier and include the word "grading" in it to protect yourself. I mean really... what an absolutely savvy and brilliant move, give a bonus to whichever C-Suite exec came up that one. 

On 10/4/2021 at 5:57 AM, Oreos said:

Imo the Vaporeon should have the 8.5/9, not the Ditto. Centering on the Ditto looks damn near perfect.

I also had an extremely similar issue with my submission.

How does one of these get an O/C and the other an 8? Its the same damn cut...

But I digress. I'd love to know the answer to your question. Human or AI? Maybe we're missing something?

Yeah this isn't a fun topic to discuss for anyone and there are too many examples out there not to bring to attention. This Bulbasaur is not even close to perfect Centering. But I'm confident CGC will address and fix in time; they're too competent of a business not to.

Assuming they are having graders eyeball Centering, then implementing AI could be a continuous improvement initiative to look into down the line. 

The card grading space is not getting less exact and precise, it's getting more -- and Centering is one of those things that can be exact, so I'm confident CGC will make the correct moves in time. 

Below are two cards from the same submission that were graded on 10/01. Can anyone explain how this Vaporeon is a full 1 point higher (9.5) in Centering than the Ditto (Charmander) which got a 8.5 for Centering? I'd argue the Ditto (Charmander) is better Centered both on the front and the back. Am I missing something? 

Well, this came as a shock to me, but per the CGC Grading scale there are no quantifiable boundaries/limits for Centering like PSA or SGC has on their grading scales (i.e. for a 10 Centering the edges must be at least 55/45). https://www.cgccomics.com/grading/grading-scale/?scale=trading-cards

So this begs the question(s).... Are graders subjectively eyeballing Centering right now? Is AI involved at all? Are there plans to incorporate exact centering requirements in the grading scale similar to PSA/SGC? 

Regardless, I don't think it's unreasonable for us Customers to want recognizable consistency in this subgrade, whether human or AI. 

Curious to hear people's thoughts on this and again, if I'm just completely blind feel free to call me out. I have other examples as well but figured this one gets the point across. 

After reading about this on here and on the other thread I still have no idea what we are talking about.

Are people trimming Magic cards and then subsequently getting mad when CGC isn’t grading them? What is going on lmao

On 9/26/2021 at 3:54 PM, medison said:

Why should CGC do anything to "balance the market"? 

Why should CGC care you can't make back the cost of grading? Their service is grading and encapsulation, and should remain as such. 

If people get scared and stop submitting NM WOTC cards, I think that's a good sign. The market is overly saturated with that stuff regardless when you combine all graded + ungraded out there.

Do you understand supply and demand? People will stop submitting cards if a majority of what they send in nets a loss. 

It's the same principle that allows grading companies to raise prices when the market is good.

If you don't understand this concept then don't bother talking about this subject.

Before the Poke-mania of 2020, most PSA 9's weren't going to make anyone money, let alone 8's, 7's etc.

Up until this point, mostly anything slabbed was guaranteed profit. 

NOT ANY MORE. 

CGC 8.5's are the new PSA 9's in that they are nearly worthless as a grade, and taking the time to encapsulate a 8.5 is a fruitless endeavor (outside of medium to higher end cards). Even for medium tier cards, the difference between a 8.5 and 9 in terms of resale price can be drastic, with 8.5's underperforming very, very badly. And guess which grade we all get the most? 8.5 I'd wager.

Look at ZandG's weekly auction if you don't believe me. Most 8.5's AREN'T EVEN COVERING THE COST OF GRADING. They aren't even close! It's disgusting. 

It will be interesting how things go from here, I suspect either: CGC gets smart and gives out more 9's to balance the market, or they lose a lot of incoming cards due to extremely poor resale value and the fear of the dreaded 8.5 grade.

Either that, or CGC grading fees decrease, which I don't see happening. 

You could send to PSA as it will probably get a 6 but also might get a 10. Right now, the card is both grades at the same time, a phenomenon known as Schrodinger’s Slab. The only way to know is to grade it, and either way, self-fulfilling prophecy justifies the grade once you get it, so you’re good!

This infallible business model of shifting the grade reasoning to the Customer based on the number grade they see on the front of the slab has worked since the beginning. Stop asking questions.

Any way, once the grade is assigned, the Customer knows why their card graded the way it did, mostly because humans are just so smart and observant and brilliant.

#CommunityStandard

#WhoNeedsSubgrades?

What am I missing? 

Fortunately for this submitter, I get all the 8.5's on Centering so this card didn't have to.