Matt1982

Not CGC, but the facilitator did clean & press.

Thanks to everyone - very happy with this one.

Really excited to add this beauty to my pc!

Wow!!!! Obviously I’m incredibly happy with this. Only 9 on the census, and a really hard book to get! Thanks for your help!

Sounds like it’s going to be loosely based on Devil’s Reign, with Kingpin becoming Mayor of NYC and then recruiting villains to “arrest” heroes. The cool thing about that would be the huge number of cameo possibilities. The disappointing part would be not using the actual Born Again storyline where Kingpin uses DD’s secret identity to wage psychological warfare on him.

Super happy with this - thanks all!

Has anyone seen their David Mack books from October move forward? I was told by CGC that he signed my book in mid-November, but it's still "Received by CCS." I haven't seen any movement and am wondering if others are seeing the same? Thanks.

OP is correct that people get named publicly, and this guy will too, eventually. If a criminal case against him is officially filed, or settled, he will be named. If reporters pick it up and investigate, they'll likely use the name and write "allegedly" or other qualifying language everywhere. CGC likely won't name him publicly because if he ends up successfully defending himself they'll get sued for defamation.

There's no way to know. It's possible the case against him wasn't strong, or that someone decided not to pursue it. It's also possible that it was 20 years ago and everything was in its infancy in terms of online auctions and selling. Either way, it sounds like CGC is pursuing it, and based on the seriousness I would expect that the FBI will take it seriously. Whoever CGC has hired to conduct the investigation is likely a large NYC law firm, and they're probably using a former federal prosecutor to lead their internal investigation. I come to this conclusion based on my experience with Blackstone and its propensity to use huge, expensive NYC law firms.

They’re asking anyone affected to send in their books. And they’ve said they’ll “compensate” those affected by a failure in their services. They haven’t said anything contrary to cooperating with an investigation by law enforcement.

Here's what I base my statement on that the FBI will be (likely already is) involved - from CGC's statement: In addition to the initiatives described above and as previously reported, we have also retained a leading private investigative service and outside counsel to conduct a comprehensive review of this incident and our processes, and to help ensure that this individual is held accountable to the fullest extent of the law. Admittedly, the rest of what I've written is speculation based on my experience because performing investigations like the one that CGC says it has undertaken, and cooperating with law enforcement like the FBI, is what I do for a living. So I should be clear that I haven't been given any inside information, but I'm writing what I would expect to happen based on my experience doing this. My statement that CGC will turn the books over to the FBI is because the FBI will need to preserve the chain of custody since the books are evidence, and if CGC cracks the books then it could taint the chain of custody and render the books unhelpful in a case against whoever did this. It's also based on my experience that all the online marketing of these books, and the use of the USPS and other carriers to deliver books that are sold, makes it a federal crime. And in my experience and opinion it's absolutely a federal crime. This person didn't "exploit a loophole". They knowingly and intentionally used false pretenses to turn less-valuable books into more-valuable books, and then marketed them as those more-valuable books - which in reality they were not. This is all wire fraud, and a lot of it. Each book is its own crime, and it's a serious matter.

This is just not correct. Absolutely wrong.

CGC has the list of all books associated with that user, and has given that information to the FBI. The FBI is extremely likely already working with CLink, CConnect, Ebay, Heritage, etc. (via cooperation and/or subpoena) to track those books to their final destination. Then if the FBI wants to do so, they'll contact the current or most-recent owners and track the books down. People should calm down and trust that if you got a hold of one of these books, you'll hear from someone. The FBI will do their job, and others will very likely cooperate. Then all the details will become public when there's an indictment, information or other public action taken by the FBI. The agents at the FBI are good at their jobs and work hard to limit the victims of a scheme like this one, so cooperation by the above vendors really helps them do their job quickly.

This is absolutely correct. When people send their books to CGC, they will be turned over to the FBI, who will crack and review them. If they’re not doctored, they’ll be returned to CGC. If they have been doctored, the FBI will keep them as evidence and CGC will pay the owner - presumably/hopefully the replacement cost of the book the person thought they bought.

350 is not the total number of suspect books, but it’s the only number of books CGC will report publicly. CGC won’t report books where the perp swapped then sold books without re-holdering, because they weren’t a part of that and can’t possibly know what books were cracked/swapped. In that case the wrongful conduct happened outside their chain of custody. Where the books were re-holdered, CGC was used (or it’s employed participated - we don’t know) as part of the scheme, so those are the only books CGC will report. I would expect the FBI will prosecute, and if the perp pleads guilty they will make him/her/them report the entirety of the scheme, and that’s when we’ll get an expanded list.

Not if the books haven’t been signed yet. But my books had previously witnessed sigs and yellow labels. I put the slab numbers in and it let me submit them, so I’m sure it wouldn’t let me proceed if it weren’t eligible.

I sent in some yellow-label 9.6 books for a C&P, and pre-screened as a 9.8. I called customer service to ask about the process. I was told the books would be cleaned and pressed, then screened for a grade. If they’re not a 9.8, they’d be returned to me raw. Can this be correct? It’ll obviously destroy the value of my books if this is really what they do. Help please! @CGC Mike Can this be right?

Given the videos floating around about how easy it is to crack a slab, there’s no way for them to avoid it. A new slab design is going to be the first thing they announce, long before we learn any details of the scam or the scope of it.

Absolutely! Anyone see the 1997 movie on HBO called Breast Men? David Schwimmer plays the doc who invented the silicon breast implant. He makes a ton of money selling it, and then they learn that it sucks and is leaking silicon into women and making them sick. It ruins him, until he realizes he can market and sell the “upgraded replacements”. He tells women he’ll take out the bad ones, put in new bigger ones, and insurance will pay for it. He makes a mess-ton of money fixing the problem. CGC will fix the case, use it going forward, and offer people “discounts” to confirm grades and reholder into the new case. Slab owners will do it because books in old slabs will be worth a lot less than books “confirmed” in new slabs. If they're smart they’ll assure customers it won’t be a massive re-grade because people are so completely sick of sending in a 9.8 that comes back as a 9.6. They should confirm everything that hasn’t been tampered with - as evidenced by whether the actual grade for the book is in the neighborhood of what the “confirmer” thinks it should be. The point is just to find tampered books, not to re-grade and subject books to grader subjectivity.

CGC will be facing some very difficult choices in the very near future. Changing their case/process is a no-brainer. Their entire product is trust - not plastic - and they’ve lost that for now because a huge flaw in their product has been exposed. Whether they win that trust back will depend on their response. Hey CGC - I think you provide a valuable service and I’ll continue to be a good customer, but you need to step up here. Communicate as soon as you can and do the right thing to make injured customers whole, even if it means short-term losses. The alternative will be long-term catastrophe.

Dunno. I’ve submitted a bunch and they all came back with a new number.

Not if you add a custom label. A re-holder that adds a custom label (which the ASM252 did) gets a new cert number. That’s what’s so weird here - it kept the same cert number.

I’m not saying that. The must have removed it from the well to confirm, but they wouldn’t regrade the book unless the outer case showed obvious signs of tampering.

Investigations like the one CGC has announced is what I do for a living. While I have absolutely no insider knowledge, I can tell you with a high degree of certainty what’s happening now and what has been happening at CGC for the last week or so. They have used their records to identify every current and former employee involved in grading the ASM 252. They’ve interviewed those employees to understand what happened as the books were graded. They’ve also reviewed their security footage as that book was graded. They’ve also identified every other book that was submitted for grading by that same customer. First thing I’d do is see whether any employees graded numerous of those books. They know there’s a scam here and will be highly-focused on whether any employees were involved, or whether this was a loophole where the fraudster was able to scam them. My big question (I haven’t read all the posts so apologies if this has been addressed) is why the re-graded 252 kept its Cert number. Every book I’ve sent in for reholdering has come back with a new number. They’re using their systems and records to fully determine the scope and extent of the problem, and to determine to the greatest extent possible any CGC employees who may have been involved. whether and at what point they involve the authorities is a more tricky situation that depends on what they learn about the involvement of their own employees. Lack of involvement makes it easier to go to the authorities, though that either has already or will at some point be out of their hands - the police or FBI can always start their own investigation. And whatever this person did is highly likely to be a federal crime. They defrauded the buyer by tampering with the graded encapsulation - that’s fraud. They then made it a federal crime by using the internet to market and sell the fraudulent books, and by shipping them via USPS. There are lots of federal crimes here. If CGC employees were involved, then CGC is an accomplice. If they weren’t involved, then CGC is a victim. Either way, CGC is on the hot seat and will be judged by how they respond to the situation. it will be extremely interesting to see how it unfolds.

I’m not in favor of automatically re-grading re-holders. They’d have to crack every book from the inner well, which subjects books to damage from the process. It’s also not smart for CGC because people won’t buy re-holders to get custom labels if you have to totally re-grade it. Seems much better to design a better process/holder.