Dale Roberts

Worldwide I'd bet that 75% or better of comic collectors aren't interested in graded books at all.

I continue to be surprised at the low percentage of graded books at most smallish to mid-sized shows. The thousands of slabs that are for sale on ebay any given week always give me the impression that the market for slabs is far larger. But I still routinely hear dealers explaining to prospective buyers terms like CGC, slabbing, resto checks, etc.

 

So yeah, there is a big percentage of the hobby that has never got on the carousel.

 

Look at the cost of getting a Bronze Age or earlier graded - $25 give or take after discount, including sh/ins, etc. I suspect the vast majority of books at most shows are worth $50 or less, so slabbing these books doesn't make financial sense. As such, I imagine the vast majority of books in this hobby are not affected by CGC, slabbing, or pressing. Likewise, I suspect the vast majority of money made by dealers and collectors in this hobby is affected by CGC, slabbing, pressing, and this wonderful (d)evolution in our hobby. Follow the $$!

 

Actually, I will get into this type of discussion several times of years with collectors who want to know why I don't have more of my inventory graded. If you have seen what I carry, most of my raw SA stuff (probably 90%) is in the 8.0 to 9.4 range. People ask why I don't get more of that stuff graded.

 

It is simple math. If you take a $100.00 book, for which you (hopefully) paid $50. By the time you press it, grade it, then you are into the book for $80. Right there tells you it leaves little profit. Then, if you figure a 6 month grading time, and the buyer asking for a discount, it is pretty evident it doesn't make any sense.

 

 

 

For the majority of your raw SA stock, you pay 50% of what you think you can get for a comic? I would have thought that would be a lot lower.

As I said, almost all my raw stock is high grade as well. And I try to keep high grade copies of most SA Marvel & DCs in stock. That means paying solid prices on stuff. Obviously, I will buy cheaper if I get the opportunity, but if someone has something I don't have in inventory, I will pay at least 50% of what I sell it for, and often times considerably more depending upon the book and the grade.

With people selling their own stuff on ebay and other places (auctions, the boards, etc), I am paying more and more for inventory all the time.

As

Worldwide I'd bet that 75% or better of comic collectors aren't interested in graded books at all.

I continue to be surprised at the low percentage of graded books at most smallish to mid-sized shows. The thousands of slabs that are for sale on ebay any given week always give me the impression that the market for slabs is far larger. But I still routinely hear dealers explaining to prospective buyers terms like CGC, slabbing, resto checks, etc.

 

So yeah, there is a big percentage of the hobby that has never got on the carousel.

 

Look at the cost of getting a Bronze Age or earlier graded - $25 give or take after discount, including sh/ins, etc. I suspect the vast majority of books at most shows are worth $50 or less, so slabbing these books doesn't make financial sense. As such, I imagine the vast majority of books in this hobby are not affected by CGC, slabbing, or pressing. Likewise, I suspect the vast majority of money made by dealers and collectors in this hobby is affected by CGC, slabbing, pressing, and this wonderful (d)evolution in our hobby. Follow the $$!

Actually, I will get into this type of discussion several times of years with collectors who want to know why I don't have more of my inventory graded. If you have seen what I carry, most of my raw SA stuff (probably 90%) is in the 8.0 to 9.4 range. People ask why I don't get more of that stuff graded.

It is simple math. If you take a $100.00 book, for which you (hopefully) paid $50. By the time you press it, grade it, then you are into the book for $80. Right there tells you it leaves little profit. Then, if you figure a 6 month grading time, and the buyer asking for a discount, it is pretty evident it doesn't make any sense.

You and your collective friends have submitted hundreds and thousands of books to CGC and apparently many of them have been pressed. According to you, many have been damaged. That's the real mess kicker, you are such a hypocrite, and constantly speak from both sides of your face. You claim all of these books have been damaged, you complain about CGC, yet you continue to utilize both services.

 

You're wrong on the facts, and so wrong on the personal attack.

 

The number of comics I've had pressed can be counted using my fingers. I know two were damaged by it, just like the White Mountain JIM 91 posted earlier. My submissions to CGC were from 2004-2008 but hardly at all since. The number of slabbed SA books in my collection has been steadily decreasing for the past four years and will continue to decline. I prefer owning unpressed comics, will pay less for pressed ones, and won't buy them at all if there are good alternatives. Seeing how little the JIM 91 went for at auction, it's clear others don't like their books with indented staples from being pressed either, no matter what the number on the label says. My stance has remained unchanged from the first pressing discussion in which I participated in 2004.

 

You're in denial if you think that all of the high grade Silver that's been pressed has made it through the process with spines, staples, and overhangs undamaged. That would be convenient for you, since you sell pressed comics professionally and, according to your disclosure, exclusively, but it wouldn't be correct. As for the magnitude of the problem, since it's an issue rarely if ever discussed on the Boards it seems worthy of public consideration and critical thought.

 

As for how friends who are comic dealers view pressing, that's their business and I don't know why that would reflect in any way on me.

I don't know how many books you have had pressed, but as has often been said, you can't get a little bit pregnant.

For matter of discussion, I have had far more books damaged by the grading process itself than I have ever had from pressing. If fact, I would say 99.9% of the books I ever sent to be pressed came back to me better than when I sent them. I can't say that about the grading process, so which is worse?

Are you going to quit getting comics GRADED as well because 1 in 300 (which would be a reasonably conservative estimate) gets damaged (either by improper handling or by the encapsulation process)?

10 hour days.... Holy spoon. Don't try too hard you will burn out.

 

 

 

Just buy another Encapsulation Machine, add a 2nd shift, and hire more graders.

 

To train the new graders should be done on 2nd shift.

 

That's a good idea. I'm assuming you will be putting up the $ to purchase the machine, and hire a 2nd shift, and hire more graders? That's very nice of you.

 

CGC is a business, not a non-profit. They have to balance profits with keeping their customer base happy. With the amount of submissions they are getting, it doesn't seem like the turnaround time is hurting their business.

 

Actually this argument doesn't hold any water whatsoever. To start with, you offer no proof that it is not hurting business.

 

I can in fact offer proof that it IS hurting business. I am submitting less books than in the past because of the ridiculous turnaround time. I know several other dealers who have told me that they are subbing less and less books because of turnaround time, one of them our very own Greg Reece.

 

They have cut costs in the past few years (by getting rid of some of the more expensive graders), while charging more and more for a slower, less consistent service. Not to mention the ridiculous $5 per invoice surcharge.

 

I believe CGC is making a ton of money. They just don't want to give any of it back out.

 

PGX is not the answer, but if someone with some money wanted to start a grading service with some very reputable people involved, they could seriously put a hurting on CGC.

 

I don't wish anything bad on them, I just wish they would get their act together.

 

Dale,

 

I hear yea on what you are saying for the most part I agree, but what expensive graders did CGC get rid of?

 

Isn't the core 4 Paul, Shawn (both still there), Steve (left on his own), and Haspel (left on his own)?

 

 

I didn't really many to say they "got rid of", but the fact is, they are paying less for graders now than they have been in the past. West is also gone too.

 

Well getting rid implies CGC laid off people to save on salary which I can't think of an example where they did that.

 

The big problem here is Dale the most qualified graders make way too much $$$$$$ doing what you do as a dealer which makes finding a grader they can trust to grade properly very difficult.

 

If we were at WW Chicago right now (after we do our Macho Man Salute ) we both could pick out 10 amazing graders that could easily step into CGC's grading team with minimal training. The reason they won't do it, see bold.

 

They hired a new grader which is public knowledge, but it takes months before he will be able to just work without training supervision.

 

Maybe all of us as dealers who submit a ton a books per year could cut back till they have a chance to catch up.

 

Paul and Shawn (rest of the crew) are working 10 hours a day plus Saturdays to just to keep this from getting worse. It is now up to CGC's management to take the necessary steps to alleviate this not only for us the customers, but their tired workers as well.

 

It also doesn't help all of us have been submitting books "fast Track," which puts regular submissions even more behind.

 

I am optimistic that this time next year we should see a more normal turn around time they we know and love.

Yeah, its no slam on Paul and Shawn. One guy can only do so much in a day. I can't imagine doing a better job than they are doing, but after CGC burns them out too, whats going to happen?

At some point, you have to bite the bullet, pour in some more cash if you want your business to grow.

I believe CGC is making a ton of money. They just don't want to give any of it back out.

 

From what I've been able to gather over the years, CGC is a fraction of the size of the other grading companies under the same roof. 1/10th of say the coin grading company to be exact (or an exact educated guess, if I had to make one).

 

If you've ever been under that roof, they have quite the compound including their own internal security team, a fenced moat, a building that looks like it was built to Fort Knox specs, etc.

 

Stuff like that doesn't come cheap, especially since it was likely purchased and built at the height of the Real Estate market.

 

I'm guessing CGC is not making nearly as much money as people think, considering they need to pull their weight in paying for that snazzy fortress at 1/10th (or whatever it is) the size of the other grading companies.

 

I don't know what people think CGC is making.

I would say you are wrong if you don't think they are making good money.

Why would they still be open if they are not? These are very smart people. They are in business to make money. They aren't doing this out of the goodness of their heart.

10 hour days.... Holy spoon. Don't try too hard you will burn out.

 

 

 

Just buy another Encapsulation Machine, add a 2nd shift, and hire more graders.

 

To train the new graders should be done on 2nd shift.

 

That's a good idea. I'm assuming you will be putting up the $ to purchase the machine, and hire a 2nd shift, and hire more graders? That's very nice of you.

 

CGC is a business, not a non-profit. They have to balance profits with keeping their customer base happy. With the amount of submissions they are getting, it doesn't seem like the turnaround time is hurting their business.

 

Actually this argument doesn't hold any water whatsoever. To start with, you offer no proof that it is not hurting business.

 

I can in fact offer proof that it IS hurting business. I am submitting less books than in the past because of the ridiculous turnaround time. I know several other dealers who have told me that they are subbing less and less books because of turnaround time, one of them our very own Greg Reece.

 

They have cut costs in the past few years (by getting rid of some of the more expensive graders), while charging more and more for a slower, less consistent service. Not to mention the ridiculous $5 per invoice surcharge.

 

I believe CGC is making a ton of money. They just don't want to give any of it back out.

 

PGX is not the answer, but if someone with some money wanted to start a grading service with some very reputable people involved, they could seriously put a hurting on CGC.

 

I don't wish anything bad on them, I just wish they would get their act together.

 

How am I supposed to offer proof it isn't hurting their business? Your "proof" is that you personally aren't submitting as many books and some other guys you talked to aren't either? Their wait times are going up. I'm just assuming here, but I would think wait times increase as they get more business, not less. Could they be getting more books in if they kept the wait times down? Yes. I never said the wait times aren't hurting business. It's a dumb argument to say that it's not. What I said was it doesn't seem like it's hurting. And as wait times continue to go up, I'd have to think that's because their submissions are increasing, not decreasing.

 

You say CGC is making a ton of money. Prove that.

 

We are all on the same side here. CGC needs to get some more graders and get the times back on schedule. What my original post was about and what irritates me is when people start shouting suggestions like it's so easy to fix. It's easy to say "buy this and hire this" when it's not your money you are spending.

The fact that they are falling further behind means nothing.

If you currently are taking 500 submissions per day, but could in fact be taking 800 a day if you were more efficient, that's NOT losing business??

10 hour days.... Holy spoon. Don't try too hard you will burn out.

 

 

 

Just buy another Encapsulation Machine, add a 2nd shift, and hire more graders.

 

To train the new graders should be done on 2nd shift.

 

That's a good idea. I'm assuming you will be putting up the $ to purchase the machine, and hire a 2nd shift, and hire more graders? That's very nice of you.

 

CGC is a business, not a non-profit. They have to balance profits with keeping their customer base happy. With the amount of submissions they are getting, it doesn't seem like the turnaround time is hurting their business.

 

Actually this argument doesn't hold any water whatsoever. To start with, you offer no proof that it is not hurting business.

 

I can in fact offer proof that it IS hurting business. I am submitting less books than in the past because of the ridiculous turnaround time. I know several other dealers who have told me that they are subbing less and less books because of turnaround time, one of them our very own Greg Reece.

 

They have cut costs in the past few years (by getting rid of some of the more expensive graders), while charging more and more for a slower, less consistent service. Not to mention the ridiculous $5 per invoice surcharge.

 

I believe CGC is making a ton of money. They just don't want to give any of it back out.

 

PGX is not the answer, but if someone with some money wanted to start a grading service with some very reputable people involved, they could seriously put a hurting on CGC.

 

I don't wish anything bad on them, I just wish they would get their act together.

 

Dale,

 

I hear yea on what you are saying for the most part I agree, but what expensive graders did CGC get rid of?

 

Isn't the core 4 Paul, Shawn (both still there), Steve (left on his own), and Haspel (left on his own)?

 

I didn't really many to say they "got rid of", but the fact is, they are paying less for graders now than they have been in the past. West is also gone too.

10 hour days.... Holy spoon. Don't try too hard you will burn out.

 

 

 

Just buy another Encapsulation Machine, add a 2nd shift, and hire more graders.

 

To train the new graders should be done on 2nd shift.

 

That's a good idea. I'm assuming you will be putting up the $ to purchase the machine, and hire a 2nd shift, and hire more graders? That's very nice of you.

 

CGC is a business, not a non-profit. They have to balance profits with keeping their customer base happy. With the amount of submissions they are getting, it doesn't seem like the turnaround time is hurting their business.

Actually this argument doesn't hold any water whatsoever. To start with, you offer no proof that it is not hurting business.

I can in fact offer proof that it IS hurting business. I am submitting less books than in the past because of the ridiculous turnaround time. I know several other dealers who have told me that they are subbing less and less books because of turnaround time, one of them our very own Greg Reece.

They have cut costs in the past few years (by getting rid of some of the more expensive graders), while charging more and more for a slower, less consistent service. Not to mention the ridiculous $5 per invoice surcharge.

I believe CGC is making a ton of money. They just don't want to give any of it back out.

PGX is not the answer, but if someone with some money wanted to start a grading service with some very reputable people involved, they could seriously put a hurting on CGC.

I don't wish anything bad on them, I just wish they would get their act together.

I would be happy to use someone else who offers a service comparable to the CGC, and since we all know that it isn't PGX, perhaps you might offer a recommendation.

 

I have already found an alternative to the Registry, so I'm basically sitting on G and waiting for O.

 

So you want the same (or better) quality, at the same price with a faster turn around time?

Or are you willing to pay more for faster and better?

 

Just wondering what your acceptable metric is...

My acceptable metric would be a grading service that runs their business like Richard Evans runs Bedrock City Comics, like Joe Grisolia runs CFP Comics, like Andrew Cretella runs GACollectibles, and like Dale Roberts runs Dale Roberts Comics. A business where everyone is treated professionally and with the same level of respect and courtesy. A business where if you have a problem they are working to an end where both the business and the customer are equally satisfied instead of admonished like a child in school or taunted with phrases such as, "Well, yeah, prove it." That would be my acceptable metric.

My acceptable metric would be to give the service which they advertise on the grading forms.

You don't tell people that it will be 40 days, when in fact it will be 150 days.

They need to suck it up, buy another encapsulation machine, hire another qualified grader or two, and get and stay caught up. Thats what businesses do.

I would be happy to use someone else who offers a service comparable to the CGC, and since we all know that it isn't PGX, perhaps you might offer a recommendation.

 

I have already found an alternative to the Registry, so I'm basically sitting on G and waiting for O.

 

So you want the same (or better) quality, at the same price with a faster turn around time?

Or are you willing to pay more for faster and better?

 

Just wondering what your acceptable metric is...

My acceptable metric would be a grading service that runs their business like Richard Evans runs Bedrock City Comics, like Joe Grisolia runs CFP Comics, like Andrew Cretella runs GACollectibles, and like Dale Roberts runs Dale Roberts Comics. A business where everyone is treated professionally and with the same level of respect and courtesy. A business where if you have a problem they are working to an end where both the business and the customer are equally satisfied instead of admonished like a child in school or taunted with phrases such as, "Well, yeah, prove it." That would be my acceptable metric.

 

That's a weak response.

 

For one CGC has never come on and said "Well, yeah, prove it."

 

Second, Bedrock says that to me all the time.

 

Finally, none of them have awesome message boards where grown men can come on and act like children.

 

Oh, I have one....you're just not invited!

May 22nd invoice graded yesterday.

 

And keep in mind turn around time doesn't refer to how long it takes to get it graded, but how long it takes to get it back in my hands....

 

currently at 164 days and counting

 

I sense torch and pitchfork sales to rise in the near future.

I have another value tier invoice from June 6th which is not even scheduled yet...

Modern pre-screen from June 20th scheduled.

May 22nd invoice graded yesterday.

And keep in mind turn around time doesn't refer to how long it takes to get it graded, but how long it takes to get it back in my hands....

currently at 164 days and counting

May 22nd invoice graded yesterday.

 

Was that economy Dale?

value

May 22nd invoice graded yesterday.

I have a value tier invoice from May 22nd which has not yet been graded.

I also got books back on the 23rd of September that were subbed on January 31st.

Drives me crazy.

Gene travels quite a bit and quite slowly. Maybe he is in Texas?

 

Congratulations. You have single handedly cornered the market on drek. (thumbs u

 

This drek can pay your rent for months.

I don't rent.....or live in Sasquatchville, BC

pathetic

He's drilling oil wells

I figured he was at home playing with "little JR"

Less competition for employee of the month.

 

I thought you retired

We can always bring your photograph up for reevaluation.

 

Are you saving yourself for last?

Nope. I'm not funny, in my current form or otherwise.

 

You are consistently hysterical.

but you're still fired

Explains your grading.

 

Time for glasses buddy

I don't know....I see it pretty well. Stick an old gray goatee on that picture, its you baby!!!!!

Do it FLEE!

sfingh - Wendy

 

Always fresh. Never frozen.

 

 

The Bedrock/Dale one is great, but this is my favorite.

When I first looked at the picture, I thought it was Storms

Flee, these are fantastic!

yeah, just great...

MrBedrock/Dale-Roberts - Lucas and Mark McCain

 

Wow, what a big long box you've got there.

 

you're fired