CGC 9.4 copy of AA #16?!

[action1kid]

I'm not sure about color touch, but it does have a significant crease on the FC. Dave Anderson told me it was a FVF shortly after he sold it, IIRC. I think he sold it to Rob R,for $110K, then Rob sold it for $125K. No idea if it has changed hands since.

 

I can confirm that Dave told me that also.

Rob offered it to me for 100k so he had to buy it for less than that.He had it at a New York show in the 1990s. I forget the year

[tth2]

Considering the number of MH Adventures and other books Geppi is letting go of youd think it makes sense that maybe he is trying to gather up funds for a book like this.

 

Geppi needs to sell books to build cash to buy this book? .

Like Mel gibson owns Malibu, Geppi owns Baltimore. The only thing geppi builds cash for is to pay his ballplayers

Geppi is just a small minority owner of the Orioles. Peter DeAngelos is the "real" owner.

 

when did he add "de" to his name?

When he got his Italian knighthood last year.

[adamstrange]

I'm not sure about color touch, but it does have a significant crease on the FC. Dave Anderson told me it was a FVF shortly after he sold it, IIRC. I think he sold it to Rob R,for $110K, then Rob sold it for $125K. No idea if it has changed hands since.

 

I can confirm that Dave told me that also.

Rob offered it to me for 100k so he had to buy it for less than that.He had it at a New York show in the 1990s. I forget the year

 

He showed me a color photo copy of it when he was selling it -- crease was visible in the copy. It was very pretty. Your comment is the first time I've heard of any resto.

[tth2]

I wasnt talking about saving 800 to get to 2M in case Dave called me.... I wasnt mixing the 2 books together except to say that All I meant was that 800K is a lot of scratch, and 2M is 2.5 as much, or, a lot MORE scratch to spend on a comicbook. But, Id feel more comfortable spending 2.5 times as much for the better book than spending so much less on a far less "special" piece of American history. Id sleep better having spread my risk on a wider claim to posterity and history; Superman's worldwide fame and awareness and marketing and licensing value as well cultural touchstone in politics, art, sociology and even, of late, religious significance over the first appearance of merely the Golden Age GL, the 12th(?) superhero on the scene which had it never happened would not have been missed by any of the areas touched on by the Big Blue Boy Scout. And Id be getting the Best copy too! (NOT that it will be for sale in my lifetime so believe me Im not sitting by the phone...)

Got it. However, the fallacy in your example is that you are compressing the valuations between the 2 books so much that it`s a no-brainer which book is the safer bet. I think in a world where AA #16 goes for $800K (and thus far all indications are it is going to go for more than that), the MH Action 1 is closer to a $5 million book than a $2.5 million book. So setting aside that $800K is a lot of money (although for some people it isn`t), just on a relative valuation basis does a roughly 6X difference between the 2 books make the AA #16 seem less risky?

[jimjum12]

Don't expect any Church Timely's to be slabbed soon, but certainly some big news regarding this book.

 

After selling a book like this,he should be flush for a couple years .It looks like a VERY NICE 9.4.Some of those 9.8 Adventures don't look as good.I guess you don't want to overgrade an icon like that.GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[rob_react]

As for the rankings... I can't put this book (or the MH Marvel #1) ahead of either of the second bests (the "other" 9+ copies of Action #1 and Detective #27.) If this book really sells for seven figures those (which I already valued as million dollar books) start creeping up towards a crooked number.

 

Also, what about the best Superman #1? I'd have a hard time putting this book ahead of that as well. Sure, low grade Superman #1s are easier to find than All American 16s, but in high grade Superman #1 is maybe even tougher? Is the best Superman #1 a seven figure book now? It'd have to be.

 

this is what I'm talking about with the recent sales flipping my on my head.

 

(geez tim... I just looked at the clock- don't let thoughts of a million dollar comic book keep you up all night. )

[Aman619]

Id be frustrated it took that much more to get the book, but YES, Id rather have the Action 1 at ANY PRICE (in the low millions) over the AA16. Hows that? I think Dave knows this too, so the idea of selling it any any time other than personal tragedy and need means (to him) leaving money on the table, aside from walking away from the single best thing he's ever bought. Its THAT special and we all know it.

 

I qualify "low millions" whatever that means because (say) 25M would be quite a stretch. You want to stay within a lifetime's reach of getting your money out again : )

[action1kid]

the best superman # 1 ON THE CEBSUS has been played with. Restored now its not restored anymore..That book wont ever touch seven figures carrying that luggage even though its an 8.0.....The clean 7.5 9s next than my 6.0

[action1kid]

7.5 than 6.0 i meant to say

[adamstrange]

Don't expect any Church Timely's to be slabbed soon, but certainly some big news regarding this book.

 

After selling a book like this,he should be flush for a couple years .It looks like a VERY NICE 9.4.Some of those 9.8 Adventures don't look as good.I guess you don't want to overgrade an icon like that.GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

The AA 16 is slabbed and we are looking at a small scan of the front cover only. I don't necessarily agree with CGC assigned grades, but neither do I have sufficient evidence to say whether the 9.4 AA 16 is tightly or loosely graded or how it compares to some other copy.

[rob_react]

the best superman # 1 ON THE CEBSUS has been played with. Restored now its not restored anymore..That book wont ever touch seven figures carrying that luggage even though its an 8.0.....The clean 7.5 9s next than my 6.0

 

I'm talking about Dave's copy. The copy on the census is Bechara's MH.

[action1kid]

yes, daves copy would be the best and worth more than the aa16

[bluechip]

It's not that this sale is so much higher than any other sale. It's the absolute price and the absolute prices paid for other books recently. Pretty much every price I've entered into the list recently has been well over a reasonable estimate. Starting with he two amazing Fantasy 15s for over 200k, the absolute landscape has basically shot upward. Earthquake style.

Maybe comics are just starting to catch up with some other pop culture collectibles. I`ve always viewed AF 15 as the comic equivalent of the Mickey Mantle rookie card. Not really hard to find in any way, or close to the most historically significant, but demand is through the roof because of a particular emotional attachment that collectors have with that character/ball player. I believe top Mickey Mantle cards have gone for more than $200K, so why not top AF 15s?

 

Extrapolating from that, should the top comics go for more than the top baseball card? Sure, why not? Action 1 and Tec 27 are iconic books with iconic characters that are known all around the world, right up there with Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck. Everyone knew who Dwight Howard was emulating when he unveiled a shirt with a "S" and wore a red cape at the NBA dunk contest. Honus Wagner, while known to all real baseball fans, is hardly a household name. The value of that card is driven purely by scarcity. If the most valuable baseball card were a Babe Ruth, I could see it having the same sort of iconic value (except of course for most of the non-American world who could care less about baseball).

 

The Honus Wagner card isn't even all that scarce compared to others people would want. It got a rep early on when people tried to collect the whole set and had trouble find that card (and not just that card, but also the Nap Lajoie card), so the story got played up in the papers, etc. One of the very earliest widely publicized stories about collectibles. I think collectors like it because the story ties right into collecting, but its value is mostly an anomaly.

 

The Mickey and Donald analogy is accurate, except that Mickey and Donald are household names that have been creatively stagnant for some time. Disney's creative infrastructure is such that it's not likely any adults will be voluntarily watching new mickey and donald materials anytime soon.

 

But, basically agree that comics still have a ways to go before the value of their biggest big ticket collectibles catches up with the equivalent value of collectibles in other fields (baseball, movies, rock, etc.) People go nuts on this board about the earthquake like rise in prices. But that's mostly true only if you compare it to the guide itself, which has doggedly refused to acknowledge the prices received on the biggest items and to reflect them in the valuations.

 

People talk about items going for ten or twenty times guide value but on many big items the guide value itself has not BUDGED more than one percent a year over the past ten years. Does that mean the book has increased suddenly in value or that it's been increasing all along and the guide simply hasn't acknowledged it?

 

 

 

I like your statement about the guide being out of date on prices, but I would hope they would fix them in both directions. I think Keys and classic covers in general are under priced in the guide, but the low to mid grade stuff is almost always had under guide and in many cases by a large margin.

 

 

Depends on what books you're talking about. If you're talking silver age or average books in the middle of a run, low grade can be had for less than guide. In fact, if you're talking about mid grade -- fines or so -- that's even more the case, because you can't entice the buyers who want the best, or the buyers who want the most reasonably priced copy just to have it.

 

And those buyers tend to drive up the price of low grade keys.

 

If you asked anybody what percentage of good you should expect to pay for a coverless stained book with big chunks missing, I doubt many people would even say 10 percent of good. Which would mean by that standard Action 1's good price should be north of a quarter mil.

 

If the price guide really reflected the market there would be less of a disparity between fair and good and between good and fine, less between fine and very fine. And a much wider gap between very fine and near mint. And absurd gaps between near mint and higher.

[lou_fine]

True market price for items of extreme rarity can sometimes be better determined in private between the buyer and seller themselves, as opposed to a public auction format between two bidders.

Why? I`ve sold quite a few books on Heritage now that went for way more than I would have thought to price them if I were doing a direct deal with a buyer. Why would the price that I set in a direct deal, where my own views on the market effectively determine my price, and where I never really know what max price the buyer has in his head, be a better indication of market than letting two bidders go at it where at least one of them is offering his max?

 

Tim;

 

I believe the Church AA 16 is such an unique book that the market price is actually set by the seller and it is up to the potential buyer to meet this price subject to only some minor negotiation. In this situation, it is up to the seller to identify who this potential buyer is that will meet his price and offer the book to him in a private transaction.

 

In this type of transaction, there are usually not two buyers who will be willing to meet this steep price. As a result, if this book was offered up in a Heritage auction format and John V was determined to get his $800K+ price, my bet is that the book would end up "Reserve Not Met" topping out in the $400K range. And we would all be here saying what a dog this book is to sit through countless Heritage auctions without being sold. Of course, unless Heritage shills it up to John's asking price.

 

With respect to your Ducks book, there are probably more than 1 potential buyer out there in the price range which your book is going for. No clear home run buyer out there like Geppi with respect to the AA #16 book. In this type of situation, it is up to the auction house to flush out the hghest bidder for this book on your behalf in a public transaction.

 

Just my take on the rationale for the private transaction approach with respect to the AA #16.

 

 

[tth2]

Tim;

 

I believe the Church AA 16 is such an unique book that the market price is actually set by the seller and it is up to the potential buyer to meet this price subject to only some minor negotiation. In this situation, it is up to the seller to identify who this potential buyer is that will meet his price and offer the book to him in a private transaction.

 

In this type of transaction, there are usually not two buyers who will be willing to meet this steep price. As a result, if this book was offered up in a Heritage auction format and John V was determined to get his $800K+ price, my bet is that the book would end up "Reserve Not Met" topping out in the $400K range. And we would all be here saying what a dog this book is to sit through countless Heritage auctions without being sold. Of course, unless Heritage shills it up to John's asking price.

 

With respect to your Ducks book, there are probably more than 1 potential buyer out there in the price range which your book is going for. No clear home run buyer out there like Geppi with respect to the AA #16 book. In this type of situation, it is up to the auction house to flush out the hghest bidder for this book on your behalf in a public transaction.

 

Just my take on the rationale for the private transaction approach with respect to the AA #16.

 

I think you`re really under-estimating the money that has come into the market. I definitely don`t think Geppi is the only guy willing to pay big bucks for the book.

 

Just think about the fact that there have been two sales of AF 15 for over $200K, indicating there are at least 3 buyers out there willing to pay that amount (unless CL shilled them up), and that`s not even including a certain well-moneyed collector who wasn`t even going after them because he already owns the 9.6 copy. That same well-moneyed collector has such a laser focus on really high-quality books that I would have to think he would be competing for the AA 16.

[Sal]

I for one think Dave Anderson's - "the Dentist" Dave Anderson that is - Action 1 is valueless, because from what I can tell, he wouldn't sell it at any price.

 

 

It's a semantic exercise, true, but still interesting. How do you put a FMV on a book that's not for sale at any price? What price tag would you put on the Mona Lisa? The Venus DeMilo?

[Sal]

Oh, and the Church AA 16 doesn't even have white pages. Pfft. I poop on it.

[jimjum12]

I for one think Dave Anderson's - "the Dentist" Dave Anderson that is - Action 1 is valueless, because from what I can tell, he wouldn't sell it at any price.

 

 

It's a semantic exercise, true, but still interesting. How do you put a FMV on a book that's not for sale at any price? What price tag would you put on the Mona Lisa? The Venus DeMilo?

 

The 18 point Buck in the clearing that always eludes.The Mile High Action creates the upward draft for the rest of the market.GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a frien of jesus) (thumbs u

[General Zod]

are you seriously expecting the sale price to be 800K or more?

Easily.When you are dealing with a one of a kind anything money become a secondary thing.A PSA 10 Mantle rookie sold for 1.2m.The Wagner t206 sold for 1.45m.When you own the best of anything the money flows like water.

Dennis

 

Not to mention that the next unrestored undercopy in the census is a 6.0.

 

Pretty huge gap. That's one hell of a book.

[nearmint]

The Phantom Zone has a zip code?

 

Cool. (thumbs u