Will the true rarity of CGC 9.8 late 1970s unpopular titles ever be appreciated?

[dekeuk]

 

I sometimes wonder if collectors realize just how rare the unpopular titles of the 1976-1979 era are in 9.8 condition. Popular titles like xmen, batman and spiderman are scarce in 9.8 but I am convinced there are at least 20 or more copies of every single issue available in 9.8 of the popular titles, they just have not been graded yet, they are sitting in various collections.

 

But are there any copies at all in the world that would qualify as a CGC 9.8 for the unpopular titles? (assuming they could be found and submiited to CGC and get a 9.8)

 

Take some of these unpopular DC titles for example, like Black Lightning, Ragman, Freedom Fighters, DC Superstars, etc. Nobody read these comics when they were published, they had low print runs, and all were cancelled shortly after they started publishing.

 

Very few people would have been interested in preserving these comics since there was so little interest in them. They went into dealer quarter bits and got damaged. Hardly anyone collected them as back issues. Even those that had an issue in their collection would have not taken the steps necessary to preserve it as a 9.8 copy for the most part.

 

Popular titles got saved, bagged and boarded immediately, as soon as they were published, and they are still scarce in 9.8, which makes me believe there are almost no 9.8 copies left in the world of unpopular titles.

 

The first #1 issues propbably got hoarded, but did anyone speculate on subsequent issues? No.

 

I recently bought a PGX 9.8 copy of DC Superstars #18 for $40. There are no CGC copies of this on the census. I would think there are very few copies left in 9.8 of this issue anywhere. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe not.

 

Yes, its not really worth submitting this comic to CGC if all you can get for it is $40, and the odds of getting a 9.8 are so small. But this assumes there are 9.8 copies out there ready to submit. Maybe there are none out there. Or maybe the ones out there in 9.8 will no longer be in 9.8 ten years from now, as they sit there in their unslabbed state.

 

I just wonder if collectors will one day realize how rare a 9.8 is on an unpopular title and my $40 investment will suddenly be worth $500. Anyone got an opinion?

 

 

[Transplant]

You may or may not be right about one side of the price equation: supply. But you have to consider the other which is demand. How many of these titles have much (any) demand for higher priced, higher grade copies?

[joe_collector]

[THE_BEYONDER]

You may or may not be right about one side of the price equation: supply. But you have to consider the other which is demand. How many of these titles have much (any) demand for higher priced, higher grade copies?

 

Get CGC to create a Registry set.....and voila....instant demand for HG copies of books noone actually wants.

[Comicdey]

I'd say they are all out there....just not worth slabbing. Lots of collectors have those types of books in their boxes, stored safely.

[Dick Pontoon]

I'd say they are all out there....just not worth slabbing. Lots of collectors have those types of books in their boxes, stored safely.

 

Yup!

 

And storage in a proper environment will have more bearing on how a book survives over 10 years than whether it's slabbed or not.

[Scrooge]

I just wonder if collectors will one day realize how rare a 9.8 is on an unpopular title and my $40 investment will suddenly be worth $500. Anyone got an opinion?

 

Yeah ... there'll just be that fewer people interested in a PGX 9.8 copy of DC Superstars #18 in 10 years ... and the price will still be $40, if that ...

[Stannum-migration]

I'm one of those oddball collectors anyway, so I actually have complete runs (Yes, all 15!!!) of such titles as Black Lightning, Karate Kid, Freedom Fighters, Dead of Night and such. And my goal is to eventually complete these at 9.8. I have a feeling I might actually complete a Conan 9.8 run first....

 

It's interesting to me to see how many submissions there are for X men vs other titles on CGC. Popularity rules.

 

As far as investment value? Not ever really going to be there, I think. Just look at Romance and Western GA titles. Relative to the superhero versions, the value just isn't there. You're better off collecting (acutally buying, as purchasing to resell is not collecting) keys, X-Men, and anything Wolverine if you're looking to invest.

[dekeuk]

You may or may not be right about one side of the price equation: supply. But you have to consider the other which is demand. How many of these titles have much (any) demand for higher priced, higher grade copies?

 

OK, but I look at the example of those Disney comics from 1980 that were only published in Whitman pre-packs. Nobody wanted them, as well as any other Disney comic from that era..... UNTIL PEOPLE FIGURED OUT HOW RARE THEY WERE. Then all of a sudden they are in very high demand.

 

The same thing is true for that love comic DC published in the early 1970's that was very rare, and once people realized the rarity, everyone wanted a copy, and prices skyrocked. It is now consider one of the "big 3" for DC along with Green Lantern #76 and House of Secrets #92. This is a LOVE comic we are talking about there.

 

My point is this.... when comic collectors discover something is truy scarce, all of a sudden a lot of collectors want a copy who woud otherwise never have wanted a copy.

 

Maybe one day people realize it is almost impossible to put together a set of DC Super-stars #1 to #18 in CGC 9.8, because hardly any copies exist. And because of that true rarity, suddenly people are willing to pay $500-$1000 for a copy of #18, that I just picked up for $40 (as a PGX mind you).

 

 

 

[davidpg]

I tend to think of things in the same way.

 

Then reality bites me and I remember that no matter how rare something is, it's only worth something if someone else wants it. The values will probably always remain low for these titles...that said, I still pick them up uber-high grade, raw, cheap whenever I see them because they make me happy.

[joe_collector]

OK, but I look at the example of those Disney comics from 1980 that were only published in Whitman pre-packs. Nobody wanted them, as well as any other Disney comic from that era..... UNTIL PEOPLE FIGURED OUT HOW RARE THEY WERE. Then all of a sudden they are in very high demand.

 

Sure, but what you're referring to is not even in the same area code of "rarity". I see those books all over the place, in 50-cent bins, so who cares if you think that they're HTF in 9.9, these books are NOT even remotely close to rare.

 

And like others have stated, demand is far more important than supply. There could be one known NM copy of some weird funny animal GA comic and it would still never equal any of the key superhero books.

[joe_collector]

Then reality bites me and I remember that no matter how rare something is, it's only worth something if someone else wants it.

 

Exactly. Look at 35-cent variants - by all logic these should be worth a mint, as they're incredibly hard to find and some are downright impossible.

 

But few people collect them, and even there, extremely popular titles like ASM and X-Men routinely outsell the rarer books.

[underthebigw]

I think the chances of these books becoming worth a boatload of cash is pretty much non-existant, but collectors have driven prices up on lots of ridiculous things before, so who knows.

 

And, while I agree with your premise about some books not-existing in 9.8, I think you're picking the wrong titles. I'd guess almost every superhero issue published by Marvel or DC, reprint or not, has 9.8 copies sitting out there. Don't underestimate the degree of hoarding that took place, even on an individual basis.

 

The books that may not exist in 9.8 (and I'd guess there are 1000's of them) are the Charlton (and even DC and Marvel) romances, the westerns, the Archies, the licensed animated properties, Red Circle books, early digests, give-aways (there are some issues of March of Comics that were so bad, I don't think anyone ever took care of them), and even Dennis the Menace. If you collect any of these books in high grade, you're often happy to find a VF copy.

 

Nothing short of warehouse finds or dramatic pressing will change this.

[buttock]

It may someday be recognized, but never appreciated. Those books sucked, that's why they're rare. Nobody in their right mind would appreciate them.

[SolitaireOne]

It may someday be recognized, but never appreciated. Those books sucked, that's why they're rare. Nobody in their right mind would appreciate them.

Somebody might... I know, I do.

 

Honestly, all of my top-scoring Registry sets are ALL underappreciated Bronze-Age titles (ie: Ka-Zar, Kull, Claw, 1st Issue Special, Human Fly, etc). I don't own them for the $$, but for the joy of the hobby and the memories that I have tied up w/ certain titles.

 

I also like the idea that I can have a "Top Ranked Set" of an obscure, underappreciated title, because I myself, am underappreciated and obscure!

 

 

 

 

 

PS: I also 2nd the Bargin-Bin, poor condition philosophy...

[carcrawfordfan]

I think all you guys have to do is look at PSA graded common baseball cards from the 50s, 60s, 70s, and even 80s-current. Tons of commons sell for astronomical amounts in GEM MINT condition (graded). These cards are usually not worth very much raw and if they are low-pop will sell for obscene amounts. I would guesstimate that one day CGC will have the same increase in demand for hard to find issues when people are actually using the registry.

[Sal]

The same thing is true for that love comic DC published in the early 1970's that was very rare, and once people realized the rarity, everyone wanted a copy, and prices skyrocked. It is now consider one of the "big 3" for DC along with Green Lantern #76 and House of Secrets #92. This is a LOVE comic we are talking about there.

 

If by "everybody" you mean "six or seven completist 100 page collectors," then you're right.

 

 

All it takes is for two people to want ANY issue. The trick is finding the two people. You make it harder if you pick a book that very few people liked when it first came out, since the overall pool of potential buyers is automatically much much smaller.

 

You'd have a better shot at getting real money for a title that a lot of people liked, but was never really speculated on, like Elementals or the like, and even then it's going to be a rather severe longshot.

 

 

Oh, and in twenty years your PGX slab is going to be a scarlet letter anyways, regardless of how rabid the market may be by then. .02

[the blob]

Or you can spend $500 and get a nice stack of nice vintage material in slightly lower than 9.8 condition.......

 

Condition freaks are going to spend their money on stuff that excites them first, so I think it may take a long time to get to these, though Black Lightning #1 and some other "firsts" might have a shot.

 

I dunno about PSA baseball cards...

 

these, from the 70's, don't seem to get much in 10.0 and they're not common as dirt:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1978-KELLOGGS-48-BRUCE-SUTTER-PSA-10-955_W0QQitemZ110236959484QQihZ001QQcategoryZ55925QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

or $20 for this one:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1978-TOPPS-207-E-R-A-AVG-LEADERS-PSA-10-628_W0QQitemZ110238033494QQihZ001QQcategoryZ55925QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

here, $100, but it's steve garvey, maybe a dodger nut bought it:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1978-TOPPS-350-STEVE-GARVEY-PSA-10-458_W0QQitemZ200208930197QQihZ010QQcategoryZ55925QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

Seems like run of the mill PSA 10s from 1978 go for $20-$30. yes, a lot of money given that these are 1-5 cent cards raw, but I dunno about "crazy" money.

[ft88]

As far as warehouse finds, my guess is that those warehouses taht did have these run of the mill runs don't quite make the comic news the way say Mile High II did. Also, if there were ever going to be warehouse finds going forward, it would be with boatloads of thsoe exact issues.

 

Unsold, unread, unwanted and in stacks of 20 each.

 

Just ask neatstuff.

[carcrawfordfan]

Or you can spend $500 and get a nice stack of nice vintage material in slightly lower than 9.8 condition.......

 

Condition freaks are going to spend their money on stuff that excites them first, so I think it may take a long time to get to these, though Black Lightning #1 and some other "firsts" might have a shot.

 

I dunno about PSA baseball cards...

 

these, from the 70's, don't seem to get much in 10.0 and they're not common as dirt:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1978-KELLOGGS-48-BRUCE-SUTTER-PSA-10-955_W0QQitemZ110236959484QQihZ001QQcategoryZ55925QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

or $20 for this one:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1978-TOPPS-207-E-R-A-AVG-LEADERS-PSA-10-628_W0QQitemZ110238033494QQihZ001QQcategoryZ55925QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

here, $100, but it's steve garvey, maybe a dodger nut bought it:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1978-TOPPS-350-STEVE-GARVEY-PSA-10-458_W0QQitemZ200208930197QQihZ010QQcategoryZ55925QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

Seems like run of the mill PSA 10s from 1978 go for $20-$30. yes, a lot of money given that these are 1-5 cent cards raw, but I dunno about "crazy" money.

 

It depends on the POP (census) of the card and how actively the set is being built. I guess now I have to dig out stuff for you guys. Thanks for making it easy when I am just trying to give some examples.