Do we want the prices (values) to excalate?

[homerwannabee]

homerwannabee is expressing it poorly, but there is a (very) small kernel of truth in what he's saying

 

Not really, and a far more obvious reason for this, is "continuity" and the growth of fandom that Marvel sowed the seeds for in the early-60's, which created lifelong readers who kept their collections and never stopped buying comics "once they grew up".

 

Older readers took better care of their books than kids.

 

And BTW, most of us were hammering him about the utterly inane comments he made about the Golden Age.

So your saying the reason that there is more silver age is because Marvel was so much better than D.C. that people decided to keep their silver age over the garbage that is D.C.

 

Maybe you should do some research on Golden Age comic books. Some of these comics were printed in the 100,000's of thousands and today some have less than a 100 in the CGC census. And it is not because the books are not worth anything. It is because they are simply not there. By the time the 60's rollled around prices had really started to surge on older comics. And a few people started having the idea that these things may actually be worth something some day. So they took better care of theircomics. Nice job being antagonistic by the way. It seems that if people have a differing opinion than yours you seem to have little tolerance for it. You know what is crazy. Justifying collecting Bronze age comics because you grew up with them, and than making fun of people who collect Copper Age or Modern Age comics because of the exact same reason that you have.

 

Again, you are making fun of my theories, yet you totally spit in the face of all Golden Age comics collectors by implying that golden age comics were weaker storyline wise than the great and mighty Marvel. Look people collect if they think something will be worth something someday. If they don't they usually throw it away. There is an old saying "The reason behind 99 percent of all questions is money." And I think the reason behind this question also has to do with money.

[jools&jim]

 

Like I said...it was a very small kernel of truth. The growing awareness amongst the general public in the '60s and '70s that old comic books could be "worth money" certainly saved some worthwhile collections from the trash heap (like the Mile High collection, for instance...recall that Church's executors threw out all sorts of stuff before Chuck got there), and that, at least, wasn't a bad thing...

[jools&jim]

homerwannabee is expressing it poorly, but there is a (very) small kernel of truth in what he's saying

 

Not really, and a far more obvious reason for this, is "continuity" and the growth of fandom that Marvel sowed the seeds for in the early-60's, which created lifelong readers who kept their collections and never stopped buying comics "once they grew up".

 

Older readers took better care of their books than kids.

 

And BTW, most of us were hammering him about the utterly inane comments he made about the Golden Age.

So your saying the reason that there is more silver age is because Marvel was so much better than D.C. that people decided to keep their silver age over the garbage that is D.C.

 

Maybe you should do some research on Golden Age comic books. Some of these comics were printed in the 100,000's of thousands and today some have less than a 100 in the CGC census. And it is not because the books are not worth anything. It is because they are simply not there. By the time the 60's rollled around prices had really started to surge on older comics. And a few people started having the idea that these things may actually be worth something some day. So they took better care of theircomics. Nice job being antagonistic by the way. It seems that if people have a differing opinion than yours you seem to have little tolerance for it. You know what is crazy. Justifying collecting Bronze age comics because you grew up with them, and than making fun of people who collect Copper Age or Modern Age comics because of the exact same reason that you have.

 

Again, you are making fun of my theories, yet you totally spit in the face of all Golden Age comics collectors by implying that golden age comics were weaker storyline wise than the great and mighty Marvel. Look people collect if they think something will be worth something someday. If they don't they usually throw it away. There is an old saying "The reason behind 99 percent of all questions is money." And I think the reason behind this question also has to do with money.

 

[jools&jim]

more collectors demanding a book = higher prices asked

 

But demand and higher prices can also sometimes increase supply, right? Especially when collectors and dealers have been sitting on certain books waiting for precisely those "market forces" to work in their favor...

[homerwannabee]

homerwannabee is expressing it poorly, but there is a (very) small kernel of truth in what he's saying

 

Not really, and a far more obvious reason for this, is "continuity" and the growth of fandom that Marvel sowed the seeds for in the early-60's, which created lifelong readers who kept their collections and never stopped buying comics "once they grew up".

 

Older readers took better care of their books than kids.

 

And BTW, most of us were hammering him about the utterly inane comments he made about the Golden Age.

So your saying the reason that there is more silver age is because Marvel was so much better than D.C. that people decided to keep their silver age over the garbage that is D.C.

 

Maybe you should do some research on Golden Age comic books. Some of these comics were printed in the 100,000's of thousands and today some have less than a 100 in the CGC census. And it is not because the books are not worth anything. It is because they are simply not there. By the time the 60's rollled around prices had really started to surge on older comics. And a few people started having the idea that these things may actually be worth something some day. So they took better care of theircomics. Nice job being antagonistic by the way. It seems that if people have a differing opinion than yours you seem to have little tolerance for it. You know what is crazy. Justifying collecting Bronze age comics because you grew up with them, and than making fun of people who collect Copper Age or Modern Age comics because of the exact same reason that you have.

 

Again, you are making fun of my theories, yet you totally spit in the face of all Golden Age comics collectors by implying that golden age comics were weaker storyline wise than the great and mighty Marvel. Look people collect if they think something will be worth something someday. If they don't they usually throw it away. There is an old saying "The reason behind 99 percent of all questions is money." And I think the reason behind this question also has to do with money.

 

I am not being the dismissive one. Almost anybody can do that. Please rationally explain what is wrong with my post. Oh, I get it you don't have enough time to deal with that. This will be my last post on this subject. I made my point clear. If you don't get it than fine. There is no point an arguing a point when the opposite party refuses to debate you and decides to go with the mocking strategy for an argument instead.

[jools&jim]

I am not being the dismissive one. Almost anybody can do that. Please rationally explain what is wrong with my post. Oh, I get it you don't have enough time to deal with that. This will be my last post on this subject. I made my point clear. If you don't get it than fine. There is no point an arguing a point when the opposite party refuses to debate you and decides to go with the mocking strategy for an argument instead.

 

I was the one who agreed with part of your argument...

[chromium]

Again, you are making fun of my theories, yet you totally spit in the face of all Golden Age comics collectors by implying that golden age comics were weaker storyline wise than the great and mighty Marvel.

 

Dude, I love Golden Age books, but the storylines were weak beyond compare...almost as weak as most of the interiors... Reading most GA books is pure torture, they do have the best covers though.

[joe_collector]

homerwannabee is expressing it poorly, but there is a (very) small kernel of truth in what he's saying

 

Not really, and a far more obvious reason for this, is "continuity" and the growth of fandom that Marvel sowed the seeds for in the early-60's, which created lifelong readers who kept their collections and never stopped buying comics "once they grew up".

 

Older readers took better care of their books than kids.

 

And BTW, most of us were hammering him about the utterly inane comments he made about the Golden Age.

So your saying the reason that there is more silver age is because Marvel was so much better than D.C. that people decided to keep their silver age over the garbage that is D.C.

 

Maybe you should do some research on Golden Age comic books. Some of these comics were printed in the 100,000's of thousands and today some have less than a 100 in the CGC census. And it is not because the books are not worth anything. It is because they are simply not there. By the time the 60's rollled around prices had really started to surge on older comics. And a few people started having the idea that these things may actually be worth something some day. So they took better care of theircomics. Nice job being antagonistic by the way. It seems that if people have a differing opinion than yours you seem to have little tolerance for it. You know what is crazy. Justifying collecting Bronze age comics because you grew up with them, and than making fun of people who collect Copper Age or Modern Age comics because of the exact same reason that you have.

 

Again, you are making fun of my theories, yet you totally spit in the face of all Golden Age comics collectors by implying that golden age comics were weaker storyline wise than the great and mighty Marvel. Look people collect if they think something will be worth something someday. If they don't they usually throw it away. There is an old saying "The reason behind 99 percent of all questions is money." And I think the reason behind this question also has to do with money.

 

 

[joe_collector]

But demand and higher prices can also sometimes increase supply, right?

 

Definitely, and that's the entire theory - higher prices bring more copies out of the woodwork, which in turn drops prices back a bit, until we reach equilibrium, wherever that hits.

[joe_collector]

Oh, I get it you don't have enough time to deal with that. This will be my last post on this subject. I made my point clear. If you don't get it than fine.

 

But your bizarre *point* that GA comics are rare because these weren't worth anything to collectors is absolutely false. I'm not even going to get into the chicken-and-egg problem this presents, as that would probably make your brain melt.

 

Did you know there was a WAR going on back then? And patriotic citizens went on PAPER DRIVES, which helped eliminate a serious percentage of the "comic book stacks". Then you can look up "Wertham" and "mass comic burnings" to see where a lot of others went. Public sentiment towards comics was pretty negative back then, and tons were thrown out by irate parents.

 

These and many other outside forces created an artificial level of scarcity with GA comics, that would never exist had these events not taken place.

 

And that's not even taking into consideration the AGE and ATTRITION RATES of these older books, which brings their population down even further.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

Hey Homer, did you get that scanner working yet?

[joe_collector]

Hey Homer, did you get that scanner working yet?

 

, is this the big spender with the $8 scanner?

[FlyingDonut]

That being that during the 40's and 50's there was almost no interest in comics at all...

 

Um... well.... hhmmm.... ahhh...

...nevermind.

 

Maybe he meant back issues?

 

"Through much of the Golden age of comic books, Captain Marvel proved to be the most popular superhero character of the medium with his comics outselling all others, including those featuring Superman. In fact, Captain Marvel Adventures sold fourteen million copies in 1944, and was at one point being published monthly with a circulation of 1.3 million copies an issue (proclaimed on the cover of issue #19 as being the "Largest Circulation of Any Comic Magazine").["

I meant no interest in comic collecting. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Yes I know that comics were hugely popular to read. But they were not popular to collect. Collecting conventions did not start happening until the mid 60's. What I meant was that people in the 40's and 50's had no idea that comics could ever be worth anything. During the 60's this all changed. And because no one saw any value in comics, and had no idea that anyone else would have value in back issues. Most of those comics were thrown away. Remember Action comics were printed in the hundreds of thousands but how many of those are still around?

 

This statement is inaccurate. Comic books have been "collected" as we know "collecting" since the beginning of the hobby. Organized fandom as we know it today sprang up in the late 50s/early 60s. There were comic conventions AND price guides of some sort in the early 60s (and probably earlier).

[Mr. Zipper]

This statement is inaccurate. Comic books have been "collected" as we know "collecting" since the beginning of the hobby.

 

Really?

 

In the 30s, typical comic buyers took comics from the newstand and slide them into mylar sleeves with backing boards and gently placed them into acid-free longboxes. (The one in a million OCD like Edgar Church and Larsen doesn't count!)

 

 

It seems like everyone is trying to pick this guy apart, but he is not completely incorrect.

 

In the 30s and 40s, comic books were a disposible medium. They were read and passed on to another kid, traded for baseball cards and most likely thrown out when the cover fell off from reading. Or they were bundled with newspapers and placed on the curb for the paper drive.

 

They were not generally seen as a "collectible" or an item that would someday have some increased value. And, this in large part is why so few copies exist from the hundreds of thousands that were originally printed.

 

Certainly some copies were lost due to Wertham book burnings... but this has got to be a drop in the bucket compared to those that were lost simply because they were tossed out just like any other old magazine would be tossed out.

 

How can people assert otherwise?

[joe_collector]

In the 30s and 40s, comic books were a disposible medium. They were read and passed on to another kid, traded for baseball cards and most likely thrown out when the cover fell off from reading.

 

Wow, that sounds a lot like the 70's.

 

The only difference is about 40 fewer years of attrition, no major world wars, no paper drives, no mass comic burnings, no Wertham, more adult readers, etc.

[precodekeith]

If prices do not rise, there is really no such thing as a secondary market.

 

I do not agree that prices need to rise in order to maintain a secondary market. I've been to plenty of shows with dealers who repeatedly simply have $1.00, .50 cent, and .25 cent boxes as their stock. They do well enough at it that they are at most every small show I go to.

 

The example used regarding the post card market was a good example, IMO.

 

The market is going to pay what the market will bear, and sometimes that means a downward "correction," but it doesn't mean there won't be a market.

[chromium]

Really?

 

In the 30s, typical comic buyers took comics from the newstand and slide them into mylar sleeves with backing boards and gently placed them into acid-free longboxes. (The one in a million OCD like Edgar Church and Larsen doesn't count!)

 

 

Well I seem to remember reading that Edgar Church didn't buy all his comics off the stands but did buy some second-hand at a bookstore. So there was a secondary market even in the early days.

[JohnT]

Oh, I get it you don't have enough time to deal with that. This will be my last post on this subject. I made my point clear. If you don't get it than fine.

 

But your bizarre *point* that GA comics are rare because these weren't worth anything to collectors is absolutely false. I'm not even going to get into the chicken-and-egg problem this presents, as that would probably make your brain melt.

 

Did you know there was a WAR going on back then? And patriotic citizens went on PAPER DRIVES, which helped eliminate a serious percentage of the "comic book stacks". Then you can look up "Wertham" and "mass comic burnings" to see where a lot of others went. Public sentiment towards comics was pretty negative back then, and tons were thrown out by irate parents.

 

These and many other outside forces created an artificial level of scarcity with GA comics, that would never exist had these events not taken place.

 

And that's not even taking into consideration the AGE and ATTRITION RATES of these older books, which brings their population down even further.

 

As usual JC, your love of hearing yourself talk makes you miss important points and dismiss the observations of others.

 

Homerwanabee's point that GA scarcity is due to comics not being worth much is indisputable. Your point that there were other reasons (paper drives, anti-comic sentiment a decade later (I suppose), and greater age and therefore attrition) are true. But had there been a climate of collecting and increasing value for comics, instead one in which comics were viewed as disposable items, scarcity would be much, much less.

 

I'll give you an example. My ex-girlfriend had a teenage son who lived with us. He didn't like to read, and he didn't like sports, but to this day (he's 26) he still has a box of comic books and baseball cards in my basement. He never read any of the comics, or looked at the cards, but he thought they might be valuable so they're still around. No kids in the 40's thought that way.

 

 

[JohnT]

That being that during the 40's and 50's there was almost no interest in comics at all...

 

Um... well.... hhmmm.... ahhh...

...nevermind.

 

Maybe he meant back issues?

 

"Through much of the Golden age of comic books, Captain Marvel proved to be the most popular superhero character of the medium with his comics outselling all others, including those featuring Superman. In fact, Captain Marvel Adventures sold fourteen million copies in 1944, and was at one point being published monthly with a circulation of 1.3 million copies an issue (proclaimed on the cover of issue #19 as being the "Largest Circulation of Any Comic Magazine").["

I meant no interest in comic collecting. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Yes I know that comics were hugely popular to read. But they were not popular to collect. Collecting conventions did not start happening until the mid 60's. What I meant was that people in the 40's and 50's had no idea that comics could ever be worth anything. During the 60's this all changed. And because no one saw any value in comics, and had no idea that anyone else would have value in back issues. Most of those comics were thrown away. Remember Action comics were printed in the hundreds of thousands but how many of those are still around?

 

This statement is inaccurate. Comic books have been "collected" as we know "collecting" since the beginning of the hobby. Organized fandom as we know it today sprang up in the late 50s/early 60s. There were comic conventions AND price guides of some sort in the early 60s (and probably earlier).

 

This was on a much, much smaller scale than collecting in the 60's through today. And it was only happening in a few places, I think.

[gaz973]

But your bizarre *point* that GA comics are rare because these weren't worth anything to collectors is absolutely false.

 

There aren't less GA comics because of that reason but there are more SA, BA,etc comics because of that reason.