Vote - How much would ACTION #1 Dentist Copy sell for in an auction?

[HOTFLIPS]

There is only one old-time ball player's name that anyone needs to know and that is George Herman Ruth.

 

 

What about knowing the name Barry Bonds?

Craig Biggio!

 

He's from Long Island

Not anymore. (thumbs u

 

I know, i know. He's an Astro, not a new yorker anymore.

He is coaching an area high school baseball team (St. Thomas), and donating his salary back to the school. Just a very cool thing to do.

 

That is a very cool thing to do.

[capt_comics]

check the website listed

 

for all intents and purposes, they are probably equal in scarcity

 

 

[TheShadowKnows]

There is only one old-time ball player's name that anyone needs to know and that is George Herman Ruth.

 

 

What about knowing the name Barry Bonds?

Craig Biggio!

 

He's from Long Island

Not anymore. (thumbs u

 

I know, i know. He's an Astro, not a new yorker anymore.

He is coaching an area high school baseball team (St. Thomas), and donating his salary back to the school. Just a very cool thing to do.

Biggio was a great player and even a better human being.

Dennis

 

[MrBedrock]

There is only one old-time ball player's name that anyone needs to know and that is George Herman Ruth.

 

That's a pretty indefensible argument.

 

I would agree - but Mantles are actually easier to sell.

 

There are always a market for Mantle cards or memorabilia. I got a couple of cards stashed away. I had his cards from the late 50's, early 60's but sold them when i was younger. So young, never thought of the long term.

Do any of you card guys think that as time goes by Mantles will lose some of their appeal?

He really was a great ballplayer, but so much of the mystique was in actually being there and seeing him play. I don't think his incredible popularity will translate to the stat driven next generation of sports collectors. His cards will always be the benchmark by which collectors gauge other cards, but will the gap continue to be as wide as it has been?

[capt_comics]

There is only one old-time ball player's name that anyone needs to know and that is George Herman Ruth.

 

That's a pretty indefensible argument.

 

I would agree - but Mantles are actually easier to sell.

 

There are always a market for Mantle cards or memorabilia. I got a couple of cards stashed away. I had his cards from the late 50's, early 60's but sold them when i was younger. So young, never thought of the long term.

Do any of you card guys think that as time goes by Mantles will lose some of their appeal?

He really was a great ballplayer, but so much of the mystique was in actually being there and seeing him play. I don't think his incredible popularity will translate to the stat driven next generation of sports collectors. His cards will always be the benchmark by which collectors gauge other cards, but will the gap continue to be as wide as it has been?

 

Go check the World Series records Richard

- he did it when it mattered

 

http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0113178.html

 

 

[TheShadowKnows]

yeah I made that exact point about three pages ago. People like to use selective arguments at times.

 

Yeah, but isn't this arguement different? What makes the Honus Wagner card so valueable. Somebody has yet to answer that for me.

 

This is a very rare book, in likely the highest existing grade, of the most popular character, from the greatest collection ever amassed.

 

 

From what I remember hearing as a previous baseball card collector, Honus Wagner was a big "anti smoking" advocate, and when he found out he had a baseball card being distributed randomly along with other players cards in packs of cigarettes, he demanded that his card be pulled ..... but some had already hit the streets.

Add the "Hall of Fame" factor, and the age / distribution method of the card, and it's a collectors dream scenario of extreme rarity and amazement ( that any cards survived / are known to exist at all, much less 1 copy that in our world would be considered condition wise, converted into comic book grading, VF/NM Unrestored with WHITE pages )

 

I think you mean 9.0 purple label TRIMMED

 

(its pretty widely accepted it was "made" in the not that distant past from an uncut sheet)

Steve,

The tobacco story was likely made up to cover his demand for money.My guess anyway.A later issue leaf card showing him as a coach had him pictured with a mouth full of chew.So he either changed his mind completely or it was just a cover story.

Dennis

 

Regardless of the reasons he did what he did, and I for one believe the money theory, they soon stopped printing the card...hince the scarcity.

 

And as far as the Ruth cards goes...who knows , it may surpass the Wagner one day. BUT, it's a regional giveaway card and LOTS of collectors collect the T206 series of cards. So another reason for it's value. Demand.

 

And as concerns backs (another whole story with T206s here) - Sweet Caporals are only slightly tougher to find than Piedmont. Both are the most common backs found.

 

Everytime the McNall/Gretzky copy has sold (which is only a few times) it has brought a record price.

 

Educate yourself. Link below.

 

http://t206museum.com/page/index.html

 

 

A perfect example is the motion picture weekly verses the MC 1.A give away promotional book that has to be rarer than the MC1.What is there 8 copies?But the Marvel Comics is much more valueable.

Dennis

[MrBedrock]

There is only one old-time ball player's name that anyone needs to know and that is George Herman Ruth.

 

That's a pretty indefensible argument.

 

I would agree - but Mantles are actually easier to sell.

 

There are always a market for Mantle cards or memorabilia. I got a couple of cards stashed away. I had his cards from the late 50's, early 60's but sold them when i was younger. So young, never thought of the long term.

Do any of you card guys think that as time goes by Mantles will lose some of their appeal?

He really was a great ballplayer, but so much of the mystique was in actually being there and seeing him play. I don't think his incredible popularity will translate to the stat driven next generation of sports collectors. His cards will always be the benchmark by which collectors gauge other cards, but will the gap continue to be as wide as it has been?

 

Go check the World Series records Richard

- he did it when it mattered

I don't disagree. But there was such an aura around Mantle. New Yorkers worshipped him. Hell, all of America worshipped him, even Yankee haters. And all at the same time that the baseball card industry was exploding in popularity. A ton of the value in Mantle cards is directly attributed to the cult of personality that surrounded him when those cards came out. There is no doubt that Mays and Aaron were his equals or better on the ball field but they didn't have the mystique that Mantle did. I am not knocking him, I am just thinking that that mystique will be hard to explain to a whole generation of thirteen year olds whose dads weren't even old enough to see him play.

[HOTFLIPS]

There is only one old-time ball player's name that anyone needs to know and that is George Herman Ruth.

 

That's a pretty indefensible argument.

 

I would agree - but Mantles are actually easier to sell.

 

There are always a market for Mantle cards or memorabilia. I got a couple of cards stashed away. I had his cards from the late 50's, early 60's but sold them when i was younger. So young, never thought of the long term.

Do any of you card guys think that as time goes by Mantles will lose some of their appeal?

He really was a great ballplayer, but so much of the mystique was in actually being there and seeing him play. I don't think his incredible popularity will translate to the stat driven next generation of sports collectors. His cards will always be the benchmark by which collectors gauge other cards, but will the gap continue to be as wide as it has been?

 

In my opinion, i think so. Mantle is every kid's father's favorite player. Along with Ted Williams, Joe Dimaggio, Robinson, Willie Mays and Aaron. There are a lot more too. As the prices for their memorabilia and cards go up, a new generation will still have to pay these prices. I think someone more along the lines as Roger Maris will drop as with all the records being broken he will be less and less in the conversation. Just my opinion.

 

 

[HOTFLIPS]

There is only one old-time ball player's name that anyone needs to know and that is George Herman Ruth.

 

That's a pretty indefensible argument.

 

I would agree - but Mantles are actually easier to sell.

 

There are always a market for Mantle cards or memorabilia. I got a couple of cards stashed away. I had his cards from the late 50's, early 60's but sold them when i was younger. So young, never thought of the long term.

Do any of you card guys think that as time goes by Mantles will lose some of their appeal?

He really was a great ballplayer, but so much of the mystique was in actually being there and seeing him play. I don't think his incredible popularity will translate to the stat driven next generation of sports collectors. His cards will always be the benchmark by which collectors gauge other cards, but will the gap continue to be as wide as it has been?

 

Go check the World Series records Richard

- he did it when it mattered

I don't disagree. But there was such an aura around Mantle. New Yorkers worshipped him. Hell, all of America worshipped him, even Yankee haters. And all at the same time that the baseball card industry was exploding in popularity. A ton of the value in Mantle cards is directly attributed to the cult of personality that surrounded him when those cards came out. There is no doubt that Mays and Aaron were his equals or better on the ball field but they didn't have the mystique that Mantle did. I am not knocking him, I am just thinking that that mystique will be hard to explain to a whole generation of thirteen year olds whose dads weren't even old enough to see him play.

 

I think true baseball fans will know who he is. As well as Ruth and earlier. Im 32 years old but i love reading and watching about players like Ruth, Wagner, Cobb. I love the movie 61 about Mantle and Maris. So i guess within the baseball card and memorabilia community Mantle stuff will always be the standard.

[capt_comics]

There is only one old-time ball player's name that anyone needs to know and that is George Herman Ruth.

 

That's a pretty indefensible argument.

 

I would agree - but Mantles are actually easier to sell.

 

There are always a market for Mantle cards or memorabilia. I got a couple of cards stashed away. I had his cards from the late 50's, early 60's but sold them when i was younger. So young, never thought of the long term.

Do any of you card guys think that as time goes by Mantles will lose some of their appeal?

He really was a great ballplayer, but so much of the mystique was in actually being there and seeing him play. I don't think his incredible popularity will translate to the stat driven next generation of sports collectors. His cards will always be the benchmark by which collectors gauge other cards, but will the gap continue to be as wide as it has been?

 

Go check the World Series records Richard

- he did it when it mattered

I don't disagree. But there was such an aura around Mantle. New Yorkers worshipped him. Hell, all of America worshipped him, even Yankee haters. And all at the same time that the baseball card industry was exploding in popularity. A ton of the value in Mantle cards is directly attributed to the cult of personality that surrounded him when those cards came out. There is no doubt that Mays and Aaron were his equals or better on the ball field but they didn't have the mystique that Mantle did. I am not knocking him, I am just thinking that that mystique will be hard to explain to a whole generation of thirteen year olds whose dads weren't even old enough to see him play.

 

I'm sure you're correct. Just making a comment on the stats side of the equation. The next generation may not care in 20-30 years.Heck for that matter, will Spidey #1s and Actions #1s be as sought after by the next generation. I know after setting up at shows for the last 30 years or so,. we certainly saw a lot less kids coming to shows from the 80s through the 90s.

What if the comic book based movies had not come around as big as they have in the last 6 years or so. I know I DO see a lot more kids today at shows than I did 10 years ago.

 

 

[MrBedrock]

BTW, I think the Action 1 would sell in the 1 to 2 million range. Possibly close to lower end of that range unless another book comes out to set a precedent. Just my humble opinion.

[HOTFLIPS]

Here is some interesting info. PRetty much everything i read in the book. About the Card, MAstro and PSA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T206_Honus_Wagner

 

 

[HOTFLIPS]

check the website listed

 

for all intents and purposes, they are probably equal in scarcity

 

 

 

 

This is an excerpt from the last Robert Edwards Auction when one sold earlier this year. I was wrong, it is the Sweet Corporal one that is more rare.

 

It is always exciting when a new T206 find is uncovered, but the discovery of a new T206 Wagner is an extremely rare event, especially at this late date after all the publicity that the card has received for so many decades. There hasn't been a new Wagner discovered in years. This really is the ultimate baseball card story: that someone should be looking through their attic to find old things to sell, find a box of baseball cards, and learn that it includes a newly discovered example of card collecting's greatest treasure. It just doesn't happen. But it happened here, and it is very exciting for Robert Edward Auctions to be a part of it. The Wagner card, like all the cards in the collection, has an advertisement for Sweet Caporal Cigarettes on the back. Sweet Caporal was clearly the grandfather's brand of choice, and it is very fortunate that this was the case, as all but two or three of the approximately fifty known examples of the T206 Wagner have a Sweet Caporal back.

 

 

You can find out about the rest of the story here:

 

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2008/2.html

 

 

[Bronty]

A perfect example is the motion picture weekly verses the MC 1.A give away promotional book that has to be rarer than the MC1.What is there 8 copies?But the Marvel Comics is much more valueable.

Dennis

 

that's as good an example as can be drawn in comic book terms, yes, and hey IMO MPFW is an undervalued book.

 

But a better analogy would be if MPFW were the first appearance of Superman (comparable to Ruth), had superman on the cover (the humor cover hurts MPFW IMO) and still was worth less than, say, All American 16 or Adventure 40 (a "minor major" key, comparable to Wagner). Wouldn't happen. Promo or not that would still be a massive, massive book.

[TheShadowKnows]

A perfect example is the motion picture weekly verses the MC 1.A give away promotional book that has to be rarer than the MC1.What is there 8 copies?But the Marvel Comics is much more valueable.

Dennis

 

that's as good an example as can be drawn in comic book terms, yes, and hey IMO MPFW is an undervalued book.

 

But a better analogy would be if MPFW were the first appearance of Superman (comparable to Ruth), had superman on the cover (the humor cover hurts MPFW IMO) and still was worth less than, say, All American 16 or Adventure 40 (a "minor major" key, comparable to Wagner). Wouldn't happen. Promo or not that would still be a massive, massive book.

That was my analogy of the Babe Ruth/Honus Wagner values put into a comic book comparison.

Dennis

[Bronty]

obviously. read my response more closely

 

Yes MPFW is more rare and is arguably submariner's 1st app. But MC1 is also the human torch's first appearance and MPFW1 doesn't even have subby on the cover (kinda like a ruth card with a photo of his back or kneecaps or something, ).

 

You draw a pretty good parallel but as I say a better parallel would be placing superman's (ruth) 1st app. in MPFW and on the cover. And comparing to adventure 40 (wagner). I say the MPFW would win value wise. So should ruth

[capt_comics]

check the website listed

 

for all intents and purposes, they are probably equal in scarcity

 

 

 

 

This is an excerpt from the last Robert Edwards Auction when one sold earlier this year. I was wrong, it is the Sweet Corporal one that is more rare.

 

It is always exciting when a new T206 find is uncovered, but the discovery of a new T206 Wagner is an extremely rare event, especially at this late date after all the publicity that the card has received for so many decades. There hasn't been a new Wagner discovered in years. This really is the ultimate baseball card story: that someone should be looking through their attic to find old things to sell, find a box of baseball cards, and learn that it includes a newly discovered example of card collecting's greatest treasure. It just doesn't happen. But it happened here, and it is very exciting for Robert Edward Auctions to be a part of it. The Wagner card, like all the cards in the collection, has an advertisement for Sweet Caporal Cigarettes on the back. Sweet Caporal was clearly the grandfather's brand of choice, and it is very fortunate that this was the case, as all but two or three of the approximately fifty known examples of the T206 Wagner have a Sweet Caporal back.

 

 

You can find out about the rest of the story here:

 

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2008/2.html

 

check the website listed

 

for all intents and purposes, they are probably equal in scarcity

 

 

 

yes I was speaking about T206s in general

[HOTFLIPS]

check the website listed

 

for all intents and purposes, they are probably equal in scarcity

 

 

 

 

This is an excerpt from the last Robert Edwards Auction when one sold earlier this year. I was wrong, it is the Sweet Corporal one that is more rare.

 

It is always exciting when a new T206 find is uncovered, but the discovery of a new T206 Wagner is an extremely rare event, especially at this late date after all the publicity that the card has received for so many decades. There hasn't been a new Wagner discovered in years. This really is the ultimate baseball card story: that someone should be looking through their attic to find old things to sell, find a box of baseball cards, and learn that it includes a newly discovered example of card collecting's greatest treasure. It just doesn't happen. But it happened here, and it is very exciting for Robert Edward Auctions to be a part of it. The Wagner card, like all the cards in the collection, has an advertisement for Sweet Caporal Cigarettes on the back. Sweet Caporal was clearly the grandfather's brand of choice, and it is very fortunate that this was the case, as all but two or three of the approximately fifty known examples of the T206 Wagner have a Sweet Caporal back.

 

 

You can find out about the rest of the story here:

 

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2008/2.html

 

check the website listed

 

for all intents and purposes, they are probably equal in scarcity

 

 

 

yes I was speaking about T206s in general

 

(thumbs u

[TheShadowKnows]

obviously. read my response more closely

 

Yes MPFW is more rare and is arguably submariner's 1st app. But MC1 is also the human torch's first appearance and MPFW1 doesn't even have subby on the cover (kinda like a ruth card with a photo of his back or kneecaps or something, ).

 

You draw a pretty good parallel but as I say a better parallel would be placing superman's (ruth) 1st app. in MPFW and on the cover. And comparing to adventure 40 (wagner). I say the MPFW would win value wise. So should ruth

Sorry I did kinda skim

You make a good point.

[gcstomp]

The hobby has not attracted the real money players. But if you get the right handful of buyers into the marketplace, the kind of buyer who must have the best at any cost, then the lid can be blown off of these 1-2 million estimates.

 

I am not talking about the plastic surgeon who makes 1 million a year, thats nice, and there are probably more than a few of that level of buyer in hobby now. Side note, in a previous life, when I was briefly on the right track, I was on friendly terms with a hedge fund manager, he was mid 30's and was a nice enough guy who was not above hobbies, he collected rare cars.

 

In 2002 he averaged 1 mill in total comp.... per day, for the year. You really think it would make much difference to him, or his lifestyle, if the price was 2 million or 12 million for the Action # 1?