It's time for GPA to start reporting Comiclink Focused Auction results 1 1

[joe_collector]

The way it stands now, Josh has a great way to cherry pick books and bargains.

 

What I don't understand is why more buyers aren't ticked off about this cherry-picking?

[joe_collector]

Do NOT ever tell me how to post Bruce.

 

This place gets angrier by the minute.

[blazingbob]

How would you know that "cherry picking" is going on?

 

Unless a site has historical archives it's very hard to spot the cherry picking. Unless the consignment site identifies company owned material it's all assumed to be consigned.

Edited September 2, 2008 by blazingbob

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Bruce, put down the pom poms.

 

You don't think that CGC sellers wouldn't see or figure out the multiples to price books at? It still comes down to negotiation to come to the final selling price. When both parties agree the deal is done.

 

I think that GPA is sometimes used as a crutch by inexperienced sellers.

 

I didn't have GPA when I sold my collection.

 

I have no problem buying books without having GPA to fall back on.

 

I don't have to kiss George's Arzzz in order to continue selling my CGC books.

 

 

Dear Bob,

 

I'll gladly put my pom poms down the day you get over your various "collector-envy" issues your so readily harp on time... and time... and time again.

 

For the record...

We all know there are exceptions to the level of "need" some people have of GPA... particularly a rare "super-special, trend-setting" guy like yourself. Please continue to remind us anytime there is an opportunity of how "capable" you are of functioning on your own experiences and intellect (insert unavailable "self-back-patting" graemlin). We get it... good for you... and the guarded trade secrets you've developed. I'm OK with it and glad you are successful.

 

Getting back to reality (if you can stop trolling me and busting my ballz for a moment of clarity) I think it's fairly obvious I was speaking in general... to the masses... not "special" cases like you.

 

You're a great dealer Bob... I mean that. I consider you in the top 3. You're hard-working, honest and reasonable enough (in a deal anyway). That said, get over your hostility for those that are not "officially" dealers and do OK in the hobby as well. Not all of us fall into this deceptive, "Bob-screwing" category that you whine about so often.

 

Every buying opportunity and advantage does not belong to you because you're "officially" a dealer and shout it from the mountain tops. You don't have a right to them all even though you are special. It's well-known that you're doing just fine with your efforts in the hobby... no need to be bitter and begrudge "collector-dealers" or your preference... "DEALERS-who all hide behind being collectors to screw Bob over" for their successes too.

 

GPA , despite your direct lack of need of the service, has helped all CGC collectors and the market overall (which was my point) and also has helped "line your pockets" as well. If you can't see that, then maybe I'm giving you too much credit.

 

Now get off my back and go relieve some of your stress somewhere else... or participate constructively. We all KNOW already... for the last time... you don't need or rely on GPA.

 

While I also think Bob is a top-notch dealer, there is more then a grain of truth to this post.

 

Having said that, I think GPA is a point of great consternation for many established dealers in that, like CGC, it became a great "equalizing" force in the marketplace for those with less knowledge, less experience, and less access to sales data. Yes, sometimes its a crutch, but sometimes its also a safety net to let you know that no one in the last six years of ebay/heritage/metro/other GPA contributors has paid as much for a book as the dealer you are negotiating with is asking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[360degrees]

Bruce, put down the pom poms.

 

You don't think that CGC sellers wouldn't see or figure out the multiples to price books at? It still comes down to negotiation to come to the final selling price. When both parties agree the deal is done.

 

I think that GPA is sometimes used as a crutch by inexperienced sellers.

 

I didn't have GPA when I sold my collection.

 

I have no problem buying books without having GPA to fall back on.

 

I don't have to kiss George's Arzzz in order to continue selling my CGC books.

 

 

Dear Bob,

 

I'll gladly put my pom poms down the day you get over your various "collector-envy" issues your so readily harp on time... and time... and time again.

 

For the record...

We all know there are exceptions to the level of "need" some people have of GPA... particularly a rare "super-special, trend-setting" guy like yourself. Please continue to remind us anytime there is an opportunity of how "capable" you are of functioning on your own experiences and intellect (insert unavailable "self-back-patting" graemlin). We get it... good for you... and the guarded trade secrets you've developed. I'm OK with it and glad you are successful.

 

Getting back to reality (if you can stop trolling me and busting my ballz for a moment of clarity) I think it's fairly obvious I was speaking in general... to the masses... not "special" cases like you.

 

You're a great dealer Bob... I mean that. I consider you in the top 3. You're hard-working, honest and reasonable enough (in a deal anyway). That said, get over your hostility for those that are not "officially" dealers and do OK in the hobby as well. Not all of us fall into this deceptive, "Bob-screwing" category that you whine about so often.

 

Every buying opportunity and advantage does not belong to you because you're "officially" a dealer and shout it from the mountain tops. You don't have a right to them all even though you are special. It's well-known that you're doing just fine with your efforts in the hobby... no need to be bitter and begrudge "collector-dealers" or your preference... "DEALERS-who all hide behind being collectors to screw Bob over" for their successes too.

 

GPA , despite your direct lack of need of the service, has helped all CGC collectors and the market overall (which was my point) and also has helped "line your pockets" as well. If you can't see that, then maybe I'm giving you too much credit.

 

Now get off my back and go relieve some of your stress somewhere else... or participate constructively. We all KNOW already... for the last time... you don't need or rely on GPA.

 

While I also think Bob is a top-notch dealer, there is more then a grain of truth to this post.

 

Having said that, I think GPA is a point of great consternation for many established dealers in that, like CGC, it became a great "equalizing" force in the marketplace for those with less knowledge, less experience, and less access to sales data. Yes, sometimes its a crutch, but sometimes its also a safety net to let you know that no one in the last six years of ebay/heritage/metro/other GPA contributors has paid as much for a book as the dealer you are negotiating with is asking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly......

[blazingbob]

George,

I have no problem with GPA being used in addition to the other sources of pricing data out there when it comes to buying/selling books.

 

I do however do not agree with the following

 

Not directed at anyone...

 

1. What do you think the CGC Comic Market would be like right now if the GPA service was never created?

My opinion - The Market would probably be the same as it is today

 

2. What if the the best info you could get on CGC Sales (if you did not spend considerable time and effort tracking it manually yourself) was CPG's formulaic online data (for free) and/or Wizards monthly printed data ($4-$5 a month... and compare that to what you pay for a 24/7, at your fingertip service)?

My opinion - Learning the multiples of CGC pricing can be a starting point. You can always price a book too high and come down. Relying on just GPA means you are always behind the market, never ahead of it.

 

3. With that in mind, If you own CGC Slabs do you think the value of your collection would be worth more or less right now?

My Opinion - The same

 

4. How "comfortable" would you be owning a significant amount of valuable CGC books without such a service to quantify the market?

My opinion - A service does not quantify a market, Just because a book sold for X today doesn't mean it will sell for X tomorrow.

 

5. How comfortable would you be spending money in the CGC end of the hobby... especially now during an economic downturn?

My opinion - Every purchase whether CGC or raw is a leap of faith in the market and you should always be buying with a "Dump/wholesale" price in mind.

 

6. How comfortable would potential "new" collectors/investors/speculators be spending money in the CGC end of the hobby (almost 9 years old) without any reliable tool providing them with an in-depth market performance history to reference?

My opinion - If the new collector knows to use GPA than yes historical performance is useful. But again, what something sells for in the past doesn't mean it will continue going up.

 

7. Is it possible that GPA's existence has had "something to do" with the market correcting "gradually" over the years... instead of a potentially more destructive crash?

My Opinion - I don't believe GPA had anything to do with this.

 

8. Shouldn't we all (CGC Collectors and Sellers) be kissing GPA's arse for coming along when they did, doing an excellent job, and playing a crucial role in this end of the hobby?

My opinion - why am I kissing George's azzz? GPA is a useful tool, just like the Overstreet Price guide. Should I be kissing Bob Overstreets azzzz?

 

I think many people take for granted the numerous benefits GPA provides to the CGC end of the market.

My Opinion - I don't see this at all.

 

Edited September 2, 2008 by blazingbob

[tth2]

I think that GPA is sometimes used as a crutch by inexperienced and/or lazy buyers and sellers.

 

I didn't have GPA when I sold my collection.

 

I have no problem buying books without having GPA to fall back on.

 

Added a little bit to one of your statements.

 

Having said that, I have great respect for George for building a nice product which in very little time has established itself as a tool of choice for many collectors. And I'm not kissing his azz either, since I don't even subscribe to GPA.

Edited September 2, 2008 by tth2

[joe_collector]

1. What do you think the CGC Comic Market would be like right now if the GPA service was never created?

My opinion - The Market would probably be the same as it is today

 

As everyone hopefully knows, I'm about as anti-investment/speculation as it goes, but this statement is pretty naive and totally ignores the market validity and investor-justification a service like GPA gives to graded CGC books.

 

Without GPA, there would certainly be fewer players at the high-end and less of an inclination for investors, flippers or speculators to "play the market".

[tth2]

For the average person who wants to collect big books it's invaluable. Otherwise, how does a person know he's paying or getting near "FMV" value for a book?

Geez Roy, it's a wonder that those of us who were collecting for decades before GPA and the internet came into existence aren't all paupers today.

 

Yet, somehow, we managed to figure out FMV on our own and survive, just like every kid who rode a bicycle without a helmet in the old days didn't immediately die of massive head trauma.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I guess I'm more in the middle of you and Bruce's viewpoints Bob, I certainly don't credit GPA with quite the same level of importance that Bruce does in influencing the current marketplace, but I'm not willing to write them off as largely insignificant (as you seem to be).

 

Afterall, I still see price spikes and dips in the GPA data that can't readily be explained away by the info provided (whats the page quality, did the ebay auction end at 3:00am when no one was available to bid, hence the cruddy price, etc.).

 

And as for your suggestion that buyers should always look to buy at a "Dump/wholesale" level, what better way to gauge what that level is then by seeing an average 12 month price point for a book and deducting 20-30%? That's generally how I come up with my bids (and why so few have actually won me anything, especially in the recent hot-again Silver market. ).

 

 

[joe_collector]

Yet, somehow, we managed to figure out FMV on our own and survive, just like every kid who rode a bicycle without a helmet in the old days didn't immediately die of massive head trauma.

 

But there are far more market factors at work in today's ultra high-priced slab market, just like the helmetless kids of yesteryear would probably be pasted all over the sidewalk by cell phone-yabbering drivers in the car-congested streets of today.

[blazingbob]

Joe,

I'm sorry if I came across as Naive but I didn't have GPA when pricing most pre-65 books and keys. Do speculators, flippers etc need GPA when watching auctions and seeing how books are doing? That's how we did it when I went to Christie's and Sotheby's auctions in the 90's.

[october]

For the average person who wants to collect big books it's invaluable. Otherwise, how does a person know he's paying or getting near "FMV" value for a book?

Geez Roy, it's a wonder that those of us who were collecting for decades before GPA and the internet came into existence aren't all paupers today.

 

Yet, somehow, we managed to figure out FMV on our own and survive, just like every kid who rode a bicycle without a helmet in the old days didn't immediately die of massive head trauma.

 

Roy used the word "average" for a reason. GPA removes a significant barrier to entry in the high grade market. While I am sure that most people on these boards (who represent the most advanced set of comic collectors) would be fine without GPA, I don't think that entends across the whole hobby. Personally, I welcome every new buyer. If a novice wants to use GPA as a replacement for years of pricing research and market experience, fine with me, because that person might not otherwise buy high dollar books.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

1. What do you think the CGC Comic Market would be like right now if the GPA service was never created?

My opinion - The Market would probably be the same as it is today

 

As everyone hopefully knows, I'm about as anti-investment/speculation as it goes, but this statement is pretty naive and totally ignores the market validity and investor-justification a service like GPA gives to graded CGC books.

 

Without GPA, there would certainly be fewer players at the high-end and less of an inclination for investors, flippers or speculators to "play the market".

 

As much as it pains me to say it, I agree with Vince here 100%.

 

Saying GPA has had minimal impact on the current comic market is like saying the modern stock market wasn't impacted by up-to-the-second stock tickers giving real time bid and ask prices.

 

Overstreet is as relevant to the current graded comic market as stock prices are published daily in your morning newspaper. Old news is rarely profitable news.

 

Well, that's probably not a good analogy, because at least the stock prices in your morning newspaper are real, where Overstreet prices are far more fictional in nature.

 

 

 

 

 

[tth2]

The way it stands now, Josh has a great way to cherry pick books and bargains.

 

What I don't understand is why more buyers aren't ticked off about this cherry-picking?

One very big buyer (GT), one medium buyer (BB13) and one small buyer on CL who would buy more from CL if Josh would play ball (me) have all indicated in this thread that we've told Josh how much the system ticks us off. I would guess if the 3 of us have, then others have too. But Josh clearly has chosen to ignore these complaints, and I guess the hard evidence is that he hasn't suffered financially as a result of these complaints, so he's not going to change it.

[joe_collector]

Joe, I'm sorry if I came across as Naive but I didn't have GPA when pricing most pre-65 books and keys. Do speculators, flippers etc need GPA when watching auctions and seeing how books are doing?

 

No, but as you realize, prices have spiked since the 90's and there are new and emerging markets today, like EBay, online consignment houses and the burgeoning UK/Euro-markets. Buying a high-grade GA or SA key is far more complex today, and also carries a far higher price tag.

 

So how I see GPA playing a role is to give the added buying, selling or investment data to the high-rollers, making them feel safer plunking down their hard-earned money on funny books - after all, they can now track their paper portfolios, determine what and when to sell, and identify prime buying opportunities.

 

GPA provides market validation to CGC comics, much like OS did decades before.

 

Without GPA, there is no way the market would have expanded like it has, with new records being set on almost a daily basis.

[tth2]

Yet, somehow, we managed to figure out FMV on our own and survive, just like every kid who rode a bicycle without a helmet in the old days didn't immediately die of massive head trauma.

 

But there are far more market factors at work in today's ultra high-priced slab market, just like the helmetless kids of yesteryear would probably be pasted all over the sidewalk by cell phone-yabbering drivers in the car-congested streets of today.

Well, we had more drunk drivers to deal with in the old days.

[joe_collector]

Yet, somehow, we managed to figure out FMV on our own and survive, just like every kid who rode a bicycle without a helmet in the old days didn't immediately die of massive head trauma.

 

But there are far more market factors at work in today's ultra high-priced slab market, just like the helmetless kids of yesteryear would probably be pasted all over the sidewalk by cell phone-yabbering drivers in the car-congested streets of today.

Well, we had more drunk drivers to deal with in the old days.

 

True, but they mostly came out at night.

[blazingbob]

Joe, I agree with some of your post but frankly the UK/Euro buyer has had a bigger incentive due to currency strength of the Euro versus the dollar. Even my Canadian sales increased substantially once the Canadian dollar literally went 1 for 1.

 

 

[joe_collector]

Joe, I agree with some of your post but frankly the UK/Euro buyer has had a bigger incentive due to currency strength of the Euro versus the dollar. Even my Canadian sales increased substantially once the Canadian dollar literally went 1 for 1.

 

Agreed, and I wasn't saying that GPA caused it, as it's obviously currency-related, only that the online format means that someone in Bolivia has the same access to GPA data as you do, thus creating a more stable and robust worldwide buying market.

 

So when the currency shifts happen, GPA and the online selling venues allows non-US buyers to feel a bit safer with their funny book portfolios.