It's time for GPA to start reporting Comiclink Focused Auction results 1 1

[tth2]

For the average person who wants to collect big books it's invaluable. Otherwise, how does a person know he's paying or getting near "FMV" value for a book?

Geez Roy, it's a wonder that those of us who were collecting for decades before GPA and the internet came into existence aren't all paupers today.

 

Yet, somehow, we managed to figure out FMV on our own and survive, just like every kid who rode a bicycle without a helmet in the old days didn't immediately die of massive head trauma.

 

Roy used the word "average" for a reason. GPA removes a significant barrier to entry in the high grade market. While I am sure that most people on these boards (who represent the most advanced set of comic collectors) would be fine without GPA, I don't think that entends across the whole hobby. Personally, I welcome every new buyer. If a novice wants to use GPA as a replacement for years of pricing research and market experience, fine with me, because that person might not otherwise buy high dollar books.

I guess I'm one of those who thinks that clueless newbies shouldn't be buying high dollar books in the first place. They need to work their way through the rungs of comic collecting before dropping big bucks.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Joe, I agree with some of your post but frankly the UK/Euro buyer has had a bigger incentive due to currency strength of the Euro versus the dollar. Even my Canadian sales increased substantially once the Canadian dollar literally went 1 for 1.

 

 

You bring up a good point Bob, and a tantalizing question....will the recent dolllar strength (currently at a 2-year high vs. the Pound) start bringing some of those books that the Brits bought back onto the market?

 

 

 

[joe_collector]

I guess I'm one of those who thinks that clueless newbies shouldn't be buying high dollar books in the first place.

 

Well there goes the high-grade market.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

For the average person who wants to collect big books it's invaluable. Otherwise, how does a person know he's paying or getting near "FMV" value for a book?

Geez Roy, it's a wonder that those of us who were collecting for decades before GPA and the internet came into existence aren't all paupers today.

 

Yet, somehow, we managed to figure out FMV on our own and survive, just like every kid who rode a bicycle without a helmet in the old days didn't immediately die of massive head trauma.

 

Roy used the word "average" for a reason. GPA removes a significant barrier to entry in the high grade market. While I am sure that most people on these boards (who represent the most advanced set of comic collectors) would be fine without GPA, I don't think that entends across the whole hobby. Personally, I welcome every new buyer. If a novice wants to use GPA as a replacement for years of pricing research and market experience, fine with me, because that person might not otherwise buy high dollar books.

I guess I'm one of those who thinks that clueless newbies shouldn't be buying high dollar books in the first place. They need to work their way through the rungs of comic collecting before dropping big bucks.

 

Then how in the world would unscrupulous dealers who sell uncertified books with undisclosed resto ever turn a buck, if not to unload their wares to unsuspecting newbies with more bucks then brains?

 

There's a sucker born every minute, isn't there?

 

 

[october]

For the average person who wants to collect big books it's invaluable. Otherwise, how does a person know he's paying or getting near "FMV" value for a book?

Geez Roy, it's a wonder that those of us who were collecting for decades before GPA and the internet came into existence aren't all paupers today.

 

Yet, somehow, we managed to figure out FMV on our own and survive, just like every kid who rode a bicycle without a helmet in the old days didn't immediately die of massive head trauma.

 

Roy used the word "average" for a reason. GPA removes a significant barrier to entry in the high grade market. While I am sure that most people on these boards (who represent the most advanced set of comic collectors) would be fine without GPA, I don't think that entends across the whole hobby. Personally, I welcome every new buyer. If a novice wants to use GPA as a replacement for years of pricing research and market experience, fine with me, because that person might not otherwise buy high dollar books.

I guess I'm one of those who thinks that clueless newbies shouldn't be buying high dollar books in the first place. They need to work their way through the rungs of comic collecting before dropping big bucks.

 

I couldn't care less about who buys the slabs I sell. A veteran, a newbie, someone who wants to use the book as a coaster....whatever. One person's money is as green as the next and the more people playing in the high grade pool, the better. I suppose I might feel differently if I actually collected slabs instead of just selling them.

[Foolkiller]

Just catching up on this whole thread now...

 

At any rate, I do think GPA is a useful tool, but it is certainly no bible, just like the Overstreet is no longer the only authority for high grade collectors.

 

I think GPA provides useful data, but too many collectors use it as a pricing guide and as their foundation for pricing. I think it gives at least a starting point to know and track all the enormous amount of data that exists out there on slabbed sales. Others have made this point, but it makes it so that instead of having to track and kind of fumble your way through the market, you can have a resource where actual sales are reported.

 

Now for a dealer like Bob, he already has a database etc. so GPA isnt as useful I would imagine for many dealers. Incidentally, I was with a major dealer recently and I asked him whether he had GPA... he said yes, but then when he went to price the four keys I was buying, he went to Comiclink to gauge his prices. I've also dealt with three private collectors, all of whom go to Comiclink to gauge their pricing data. When I shop with two other major national dealers, they completely disregard any reference to GPA.

 

I've also noticed that sellers (not here on the boards) tend to disregard GPA while more buyers like to quote it. Still, for me, I find GPA to be a very useful tool... but I rarely if ever go to a dealer and ask them to do anything more than just factor GPA into the equation.

 

Just FYI to all you people in negotiating with Bob: I've done many deals with Bob and at times have quoted GPA... it's certainly been a factor he's considered when I offered or counter offered at a book. It's all about having a reasonable discussion with the dealer and not going in and saying, well GPA says (x) and I'm not paying $50 over that and clutching it like a price can't be above or below it. There are actually collectors who do this, and I think it gets on some people's nerves.

[blazingbob]

Where's Gene when you need him.

 

If I remember one of his posts it's not like Europe and other developed countries aren't experiencing the same inflation pressures.

 

And the dollar hasn't continued its plummet that basically was giving my UK buyers a 50% off sale. Now why Goldust didn't buy more is beyond me

Edited September 2, 2008 by blazingbob

[VintageComics]

For the average person who wants to collect big books it's invaluable. Otherwise, how does a person know he's paying or getting near "FMV" value for a book?

Geez Roy, it's a wonder that those of us who were collecting for decades before GPA and the internet came into existence aren't all paupers today.

 

Yet, somehow, we managed to figure out FMV on our own and survive, just like every kid who rode a bicycle without a helmet in the old days didn't immediately die of massive head trauma.

 

Roy used the word "average" for a reason. GPA removes a significant barrier to entry in the high grade market. While I am sure that most people on these boards (who represent the most advanced set of comic collectors) would be fine without GPA, I don't think that entends across the whole hobby. Personally, I welcome every new buyer. If a novice wants to use GPA as a replacement for years of pricing research and market experience, fine with me, because that person might not otherwise buy high dollar books.

 

Looks like the lawyer newbie caught what the old bull missed. Thanks Andy for putting that into a short and concise thought.

 

T, why does the newbie have to work through the rungs? No market moves that slow anymore? Information travels at the speed of light and decisions even faster in this day and age. In every business. As much as I would prefer it the old way (a slow maturing) those days are gone. Adapt or get out of the way is the way it goes today. I'd rather adapt and use all the power at my fingertips that is available.

 

 

R.

 

 

[tth2]

For the average person who wants to collect big books it's invaluable. Otherwise, how does a person know he's paying or getting near "FMV" value for a book?

Geez Roy, it's a wonder that those of us who were collecting for decades before GPA and the internet came into existence aren't all paupers today.

 

Yet, somehow, we managed to figure out FMV on our own and survive, just like every kid who rode a bicycle without a helmet in the old days didn't immediately die of massive head trauma.

 

Roy used the word "average" for a reason. GPA removes a significant barrier to entry in the high grade market. While I am sure that most people on these boards (who represent the most advanced set of comic collectors) would be fine without GPA, I don't think that entends across the whole hobby. Personally, I welcome every new buyer. If a novice wants to use GPA as a replacement for years of pricing research and market experience, fine with me, because that person might not otherwise buy high dollar books.

 

Looks like the lawyer newbie caught what the old bull missed. Thanks Andy for putting that into a short and concise thought.

 

T, why does the newbie have to work through the rungs? No market moves that slow anymore? Information travels at the speed of light and decisions even faster in this day and age. In every business. As much as I would prefer it the old way (a slow maturing) those days are gone. Adapt or get out of the way is the way it goes today. I'd rather adapt and use all the power at my fingertips that is available.

 

 

R.

 

I'm not saying newbies (or any collector for that matter) shouldn't use GPA. I'm just saying it's no substitute for experience and good judgment, and the only way to get experience and good judgment is to work yourself up through the rungs. I don't think the internet or lots of information at your fingertips changes that.

 

Yes, some nouveau rich guy can come in and splash lots of money without really understanding anything about the market. But how many times have we seen that happen and then the guy eventually and inevitably gets burned and leaves the hobby forever. I'm not saying that didn't also happen in the past, but today these newbies have a false sense of security because of all the information resources you mention, and then they get burned even worse because prices are higher and they had this false expectation that they knew what they were doing. It's definitely not good for the long-term health of the hobby.

[VintageComics]

For the average person who wants to collect big books it's invaluable. Otherwise, how does a person know he's paying or getting near "FMV" value for a book?

Geez Roy, it's a wonder that those of us who were collecting for decades before GPA and the internet came into existence aren't all paupers today.

 

Yet, somehow, we managed to figure out FMV on our own and survive, just like every kid who rode a bicycle without a helmet in the old days didn't immediately die of massive head trauma.

 

Roy used the word "average" for a reason. GPA removes a significant barrier to entry in the high grade market. While I am sure that most people on these boards (who represent the most advanced set of comic collectors) would be fine without GPA, I don't think that entends across the whole hobby. Personally, I welcome every new buyer. If a novice wants to use GPA as a replacement for years of pricing research and market experience, fine with me, because that person might not otherwise buy high dollar books.

 

Looks like the lawyer newbie caught what the old bull missed. Thanks Andy for putting that into a short and concise thought.

 

T, why does the newbie have to work through the rungs? No market moves that slow anymore? Information travels at the speed of light and decisions even faster in this day and age. In every business. As much as I would prefer it the old way (a slow maturing) those days are gone. Adapt or get out of the way is the way it goes today. I'd rather adapt and use all the power at my fingertips that is available.

 

 

R.

 

I'm not saying newbies (or any collector for that matter) shouldn't use GPA. I'm just saying it's no substitute for experience and good judgment, and the only way to get experience and good judgment is to work yourself up through the rungs. I don't think the internet or lots of information at your fingertips changes that.

 

Yes, some nouveau rich guy can come in and splash lots of money without really understanding anything about the market. But how many times have we seen that happen and then the guy eventually and inevitably gets burned and leaves the hobby forever. I'm not saying that didn't also happen in the past, but today these newbies have a false sense of security because of all the information resources you mention, and then they get burned even worse because prices are higher and they had this false expectation that they knew what they were doing. It's definitely not good for the long-term health of the hobby.

 

Agreed. Now can you stop starting every reply to me with "Geez, Roy!"

 

 

[VintageComics]

Joe, I agree with some of your post but frankly the UK/Euro buyer has had a bigger incentive due to currency strength of the Euro versus the dollar. Even my Canadian sales increased substantially once the Canadian dollar literally went 1 for 1.

 

 

For the record, I kiss Bob's azz when he buys books from me at over GPA prices.

 

 

Bob, you are 100% at being "behind the curve"...but you are at the forefront of the business.

 

I'll take GPA over an Overstreet Guide any day of the week (though I use both). It's the best we collectors can do.

 

 

[TeddieMercede]

I've had a similar conversation with Josh about the lack of a "sales pending" notation when someone hits a BIN. It was at least a year ago. And while he was very polite about it and said he'd give it some serious consideration, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it. The way it stands now, Josh has a great way to cherry pick books and bargains. It's certainly not putting the customer first and he risks ticking off some potential buyers. But for Josh, I'd guess the current system's advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

 

I was under the impression that a sales pending didnt occur right away because the seller had to confirm the book was still available and had to accept the bid first. I know Josh bids on and wins his share of books but I assumed it was like everyone else, not taking advantage of this lag.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2008 by TeddieMercede

[adamstrange]

For the average person who wants to collect big books it's invaluable. Otherwise, how does a person know he's paying or getting near "FMV" value for a book?

Geez Roy, it's a wonder that those of us who were collecting for decades before GPA and the internet came into existence aren't all paupers today.

 

Yet, somehow, we managed to figure out FMV on our own and survive, just like every kid who rode a bicycle without a helmet in the old days didn't immediately die of massive head trauma.

 

Roy used the word "average" for a reason. GPA removes a significant barrier to entry in the high grade market. While I am sure that most people on these boards (who represent the most advanced set of comic collectors) would be fine without GPA, I don't think that entends across the whole hobby. Personally, I welcome every new buyer. If a novice wants to use GPA as a replacement for years of pricing research and market experience, fine with me, because that person might not otherwise buy high dollar books.

I guess I'm one of those who thinks that clueless newbies shouldn't be buying high dollar books in the first place. They need to work their way through the rungs of comic collecting before dropping big bucks.

 

I couldn't care less about who buys the slabs I sell. A veteran, a newbie, someone who wants to use the book as a coaster....whatever. One person's money is as green as the next and the more people playing in the high grade pool, the better. I suppose I might feel differently if I actually collected slabs instead of just selling them.

 

A CGC'd Action 1 would probably hold 6 drinks.

[BronzeBruce13]

Next time I'll ask you to Please put the pom pom's down before I comment on your post.

 

Here's an idea... how about you just keep the initial smart-azz comments in check if you really want to make a point someone will hear. That way you may actually participate in a productive exchange of viewpoints.

 

Quite the potty mouth you got going there in this post.

Name calling also. What are you, five?

 

Actually I physically typed the words " *spooning* " in every instance. So, I was basically using cutlery as my expletives and essentially calling you "grumpy silverware"... which you have been of late. Especially in my direction.

 

 

 

[BronzeBruce13]

I think that GPA is sometimes used as a crutch by inexperienced and/or lazy buyers and sellers.

 

I didn't have GPA when I sold my collection.

 

I have no problem buying books without having GPA to fall back on.

 

Added a little bit to one of your statements.

 

Having said that, I have great respect for George for building a nice product which in very little time has established itself as a tool of choice for many collectors. And I'm not kissing his azz either, since I don't even subscribe to GPA.

 

 

Tim,

I never implied everyone "needs" to rely on GPA to be successful in the hobby, but the vast majority who do use it... do better than they would otherwise I'm willing to bet.

 

I know that there are plenty of people that do fine without it by relying on their own observations, hunches and experience. Particularly long-time hobbyists (buyers and sellers) that know their way around. I'd also point out that we do not know for sure "IF" some members of this group could not use the information advantageously in some instances if they did reference it. Having information is seldom a disadvantage as I see it.

 

Simply put, my point was that GPA has helped the market, collectors and sellers many ways directly and indirectly. Vince detailed several examples better than I could... and I agree with pretty much all of what he offered.

 

As for kissing George's azz... perhaps that is a bit much, but I really meant that we all (as a CGC collecting community) should be thankful he started the service. I think the marketplace would be a very different animal today if he didn't. I doubt I'd have had the confidence to stay in this long with 9.6/9.8 books and may have sold off, banked and restarted as a 9.2/9.4 or raw collector with less risk and stress I'm sure I would have had in a market without such a tool. I'm sure many others would have too.

 

Also... I don't treat GPA as a bible either.

I will buy and sell items using it as reference, but also use my own observations, hunches and experience on top of the data to make purchases or sales. I do so... at, above and below GPA averages. I expect that is more the norm than not.

 

[Aman619]

I think GPA is great for those books that trade often enough in all grades that one can discern a real-time pattern. Unfortunately that just isnt true for the scarcer HG important books.

 

To me its like the census: a relatively easy to access source of collected data that I am not collecting for myself with any regularity, urgency or organized planning. Why NOT use it, coupled with a sturdy sense of proportion-- factoring in what it DOES NOT tell us. Why NOT pay for the data? If you see 100 sales charted in one grade?? How can that NOT be useful in going out to buy a copy?

 

Its a great idea suited for out fast changing times in the hobby. Just wish it were totally complete, by having EV RY SINGLE transaction listed.

[brasseye]

I guess I'm one of those who thinks that clueless newbies shouldn't be buying high dollar books in the first place.

 

Well there goes the high-grade market.

 

Ya Tim, as Joe succintly points out, GPA opens the door for new HG collectors/investors to confidently enter the market.

 

To say otherwise is non-sensical.

As CGc provides established third party verification of grades, so does GPA provide a basis for price point.

Greater Confidence = stronger market, you know this!

 

Whether or not you agree with the basis of it's establishment or manner of operation, on the larger scale that becomes irrelevant.

 

And the combined force of CGC, and GPA have GREATLY strengthened the market we operate in, rapidly moving comic cycles from 8 years to 4.

Edited September 2, 2008 by brasseye

[goldust40]

Now why Goldust didn't buy more is beyond me

You and me both, Bob - I'm still kicking myself for not buying stuff from you (and a handful of other U.S. dealers) at 2005 and 2006 shows. The strong pound should've made me increase my spending twofold. As Brasseye has pointed out, the cycle of the most collected books (i.e. high grade early Silver Age Marvels) has shifted from 8 years to 4, and 2005 prices on many early Marvels in HG look like a bargain now.

 

And that's at least partly attributable to GPA.

[joeypost]

It's not a matter of what Comiclink wants or does not want.

 

The solution is simple. Once a month GPA needs to manually enter the auction results once the auctions have ended. All the results are sitting right there for anyone to view, here is an example of a listing of past results.

 

The results are sitting right there. These are very important sales.

 

Someone at GPA needs to spend 10 hours a month manually going through these results and recording them.

 

More and more quality material is migrating from Heritage and ebay to Comiclink Focused. If GPA does not start reporting it, their database will be woefully inadequate for the best material out there.

 

Sure they can give me a very accurate estimate on ASM #300 9.6

 

But for stuff where they have no recorded sales since 2002 or 2003, and then a sale is made on Comiclink Focused and this updated price is NOT recorded, I think that is a real dis-service to their subscribers

 

 

I would agree here.

[tth2]

I guess I'm one of those who thinks that clueless newbies shouldn't be buying high dollar books in the first place.

 

Well there goes the high-grade market.

 

Ya Tim, as Joe succintly points out, GPA opens the door for new HG collectors/investors to confidently enter the market.

 

To say otherwise is non-sensical.

As CGc provides established third party verification of grades, so does GPA provide a basis for price point.

Greater Confidence = stronger market, you know this!

 

Whether or not you agree with the basis of it's establishment or manner of operation, on the larger scale that becomes irrelevant.

 

And the combined force of CGC, and GPA have GREATLY strengthened the market we operate in, rapidly moving comic cycles from 8 years to 4.

High grade doesn`t necessarily mean high dollar. I`m talking about guys coming in who want to spend 5- and 6-figures on a book without really having a clue what they`re doing.