Economic Hardship in a Deflation and OA

[Aman619]

Im sure even Heritage was shocked at those sales. Their MO for the weeklies appears to be the place for all the under $1000 stuff they want/need to blow out the door. If they even guessed at those prices theyd have been in a Signature auction.

[westform]

I don't think so; they seem to have beefed up their weekly auctions. In fact, they just sold a Wilson Cap Marvel cover from the 70's for over 4k. DF

[bedrockcomics]

delek --

 

enough doom and gloom. you doom and gloomers are unpatriotic!

 

on an unrelated note....

 

my insufficiently_thoughtful_person mother-in-law asks me incredulously "what, you wouldn't take an all cash offer on your house equal to the amount of your mortgage????" (I'm translating this from crazy oldladyese, she wouldn't phrase it like that) -- and I look at my wife and shake my head...no you stupid old B*itch, I would not sell my house for the amount of the mortgage and lose $400K in the process and not have a place to live, why the would I do that you insufficiently_thoughtful_person?

 

no matter what i tell this old biddy about how we had no plans to move (I have 7 bedrooms...space will never be a concern) and are fine with our mortgage payment, so it doesn't really matter what prices are like now, and that I'm not going to pull my hair out over my 401K because there are 20 more years before I will even touch the darn thing...she just keeps on screaming about the end of the world, cash in the mattress, gold, the homeless investment bankers and so on.

 

of course, most people are stupid like her so they probably will drag the world down into a 50 year depression and I guess I'll be the stupid one then.

 

 

for christ sake .....why dont you have your mother in law sell her place and move in with you !!!!!! with the seven bedrooms you will have plenty of room for her-- also you can start charging her rent- which you can use to fund your oa collection - plus just think ....... meatloaf and mashed potatoes 7 days a week - HEAVEN !!!!!!!!

[the blob]

hmmm, (non-comic) artists don't seem to realize there's a recession going on either...I am trying to get a local artist to knock her price down from $600 to $300 for a painting of her's my wife saw and liked in july (which still hasn't sold) and this artist, who doesn't exactly do a gangbuster business, just ain't understanding that right now ain't last july and prices need to be adjusted accordingly. she's still pricing it re: how big the canvas is and is offering to paint the same painting, just smaller, to fit within the budget...what the heck kind of sense does that make? the larger canvas cost her an extra $10, not $300, and probably took an extra 20 minutes to paint.

 

i don't want to nickel and dime, but in this market she should be happy to get $300 for a painting that was probably done in a leisurely afternoon. we aren't talking about a shiverbones original here, this isn't in the same league, but my wife really liked it, and her birthday/christmas are coming up....

[the blob]

for christ sake .....why dont you have your mother in law sell her place and move in with you !!!!!! with the seven bedrooms you will have plenty of room for her-- also you can start charging her rent- which you can use to fund your oa collection - plus just think ....... meatloaf and mashed potatoes 7 days a week - HEAVEN !!!!!!!!

***************

 

my mother-in-law pays $700/mo for a 2 bedroom rent stabilized apartment (albeit in Queens, not Manhattan -- but it is still less than half of "market" price where she is). the only way she's every leaving that place is on a stretcher, which is FINE by me and my wife!

 

If my third floor had a separate entrance I would not hesitate to rent it (it has a kitchenette), but it doesn't, and the thought of a tenant having to walk through my house, where I like to walk around in my underwear and my wife leaves jewelry hanging around and so on, makes me uneasy. So I mainly just store junk up there.

 

I could finish the basement, which does have a separate entrance, but that would cost me $30-40K+ easily to get the bathroom operational down there (might entail putting in a new sewer line as well as shower/sink) and install an electric kitchen along with walls, new windows, ceiling, waterproofing, etc. Given that I doubt I could get more than $500-600 a month for the space, that would take a long long time to pay off.

[Aman619]

hmmm, (non-comic) artists don't seem to realize there's a recession going on either...I am trying to get a local artist to knock her price down from $600 to $300 for a painting of her's my wife saw and liked in july (which still hasn't sold) and this artist, who doesn't exactly do a gangbuster business, just ain't understanding that right now ain't last july and prices need to be adjusted accordingly. she's still pricing it re: how big the canvas is and is offering to paint the same painting, just smaller, to fit within the budget...what the heck kind of sense does that make? the larger canvas cost her an extra $10, not $300, and probably took an extra 20 minutes to paint.

 

i don't want to nickel and dime, but in this market she should be happy to get $300 for a painting that was probably done in a leisurely afternoon. we aren't talking about a shiverbones original here, this isn't in the same league, but my wife really liked it, and her birthday/christmas are coming up....

 

hahaha youre a tough customer! She could just as easily argue that anyone still buying artwork in these parlous times (especially from someone who offered to whip up another smaller sized copy for you) could easily meet her original price! She IS an artist ya know.

[Aman619]

I looked it up because I had though that parlous was correct and perilous less so, but seems they are the same thing... I like the sound of parlous though.

 

 

par·lous (pärls)

adj.

1. Perilous; dangerous: "starting from scratch in parlous economic times" Madalynne Reuter.

2. Obsolete Dangerously cunning.

[Middle English, variant of perilous, perilous, from peril, peril; see peril.]

 

 

[adamstrange]

I like the sound of parlous though.

 

Me too! (thumbs u

 

Just wish it wasn't such an apt adjective for the economy right now.

[delekkerste]

Shocking...the same Gil Elvgren pin-up painting (a decent one from 1947 in the standard size and subject matter, not one of his less desirable 1930s or 1970s examples) sold for less than it did in 2005 in today's Heritage Illustration Art auction. In fact, all the Elvgrens sold for less than I expected in light of the eye-popping results from the June HA auction which saw two examples soar past $200K (today's top Elvgren lot fetched $89.6K including the vig). I have no doubt that the "right" Elvgrens can still fetch krazy money, but it looks like the unstoppable feeding frenzy for any and all of his 1940s-1960s work died with our collective financial fortunes.

 

I had originally planned to go for 5 lots in the auction, but, due to the market turmoil, I decided to only go for 2 lots, both of which I won - one just below the lower end of the estimated range and one just above. It probably didn't help bidder confidence to see the stock market plummeting against the backdrop of the auction either - I know it didn't help mine, but the blank wall space above my computer was just screaming for the Robert McGinnis "Wuthering Heights" painting in the auction and would not be denied.

 

By the way, the painting that was used as the cover to an issue of The Adventurers failed to find a buyer.

[tth2]

Let's see your winnings!

[Claudio]

hmmm, (non-comic) artists don't seem to realize there's a recession going on either...I am trying to get a local artist to knock her price down from $600 to $300 for a painting of her's my wife saw and liked in july (which still hasn't sold) and this artist, who doesn't exactly do a gangbuster business, just ain't understanding that right now ain't last july and prices need to be adjusted accordingly. she's still pricing it re: how big the canvas is and is offering to paint the same painting, just smaller, to fit within the budget...what the heck kind of sense does that make? the larger canvas cost her an extra $10, not $300, and probably took an extra 20 minutes to paint.

 

i don't want to nickel and dime, but in this market she should be happy to get $300 for a painting that was probably done in a leisurely afternoon. we aren't talking about a shiverbones original here, this isn't in the same league, but my wife really liked it, and her birthday/christmas are coming up....

 

Just because times are tough, it doesn't mean she should lower her price. Art is a very emotional thing to people. If the artist isn't standing in a food line, I don't see why she should lower the price. I am careful not to try to neotiate too hard with the artists themselves. I don't want to offend. Personally, I think her actions make a lot of sense.

[Artemaria]

I am careful not to try to neotiate too hard with the artists themselves.

 

I agree. These artists depend on the income from their work for their livelihood. It is not as if they have a day job and sell art on the side. Their original art is part of their overall compensation and they consider the original art sales as part of their income.

 

Plus, the artist created the art. It is hard to argue down a price with someone who created that work because you are not so indirectly criticizing the work. Which is in essence being a little rough on the artist.

 

Dealing directly with an artist is an entirely different matter than dealing with an individual who has acquired the art and is attempting to resell it later for a profit. Which is entirely their right to do. However, they are different circumstances.

 

Regards.

 

- A

[the blob]

I'm not cirticizng the work, I'm just telling her how much money I have!

 

(Well, actually, it is more than I have...as of today I have $35 in my bank account and payday is 2 weeks away! (I just paid the mortgage...)

 

Actually, this one has a day job as far as I can tell from her blog.

 

My 401K is down 40%, my house is worth $100K less than it was last year... why should a painting priced during a period of relative euphoria maintain its price? auction prices on more established work are going down. She can crank out more. As I said, this ain't no Shiverbones original.....

 

 

[artdealer]

Art is one of a kind. Just because you have $300 doesn't mean she should have to sell it. That's just the price YOU want to pay. The fact that it hasn't sold means nothing. If that were the case, all the art dealer, myself included, would be deluged with ridiculous offers for art.

 

Auction prices going down? I don't think so. Just as my sales aren't going down either. A Lot of people buy art in a recession cause it makes them feel better. Besides, art doesn't devalue during a recession. It won't be a recession forever, if indeed we are in one.

 

My house has gone down in value. My Roth's and IRA's aren't worth as much, but I'm in for the long haul anyway. It doesn't affect me, and it doesn't affect a lot of other people. Then again, I don't buy or collect comic art. But my business doesn't seem to be affected at this point (knock wood).

 

Mitch I.

[Bronty]

yeah...... blobby this is much ado about nothing. if she doesn't want to sell for 300 she doesn't have to. If you don't wanna pay 600 you don't have to.

 

Only reason you're this conflicted is because you want to give the wife a nice gift, right? If so then I would suggest offering 450 and if the artist doesn't like it, buy something else. $450 will get your wife a nice enough nice pair of shoes that she will forget all about the painting anyways.

[the blob]

"Besides, art doesn't devalue during a recession. It won't be a recession forever, if indeed we are in one."

 

really??? have you read this thread!?!

 

yeah yeah, i know, i'm being a hard arse, but it's a commodity like anything else even if there is an emotional component to it. last time I exhibited my art at a show I would have been THRILLED if anyone offered me 50% of my asking price!

 

actually, I'll probably just give my wife $150 in cash as play money for her and take her to a nice restaurant (the restaurant part was going to happen anyway). I'll save $150 this way and I'll just stick one of my paintings up on the wall! too bad a bunch of my work was peed on by a cat on our porch when we were moving in ... they've been airing out in the garage for the last 18 months, maybe they smell good enough to bring back into the house!

 

 

 

[tth2]

too bad a bunch of my work was peed on by a cat on our porch when we were moving in

They didn`t happen to be paintings of crucifixes, did they? Then you could sell them with the smell for big bucks!

[the blob]

no, our religious paintings were already in the house by then. the blessed virgin looks down upon us and protects us when we sleep at night.

[delekkerste]

Sotheby's, Christie's and Phillips de Pury contemporary art auctions all bomb in London...

 

 

Crisis Burns Art Market: Warhol, Fontana Fail to Save Auctions

 

2008-10-19 23:46:22.840 GMT

 

 

By Scott Reyburn and Katya Kazakina

 

Oct. 20 (Bloomberg) -- Andy Warhol, Lucio Fontana and Lucian Freud works that sold in three days of London contemporary-art auctions were not enough to raise the weekend total much above a half of presale estimates as dealers and collectors delayed purchases in the worst financial crisis since the Depression.

 

Sales by Sotheby's, Christie's International and Phillips de Pury & Co made a combined 59 million pounds ($102 million), against minimum estimates of 106.2 million pounds, according to Bloomberg calculations. They follow a five-day auction by Sotheby's in Hong Kong this month that raised HK$1.1 billion ($141.7 million), also about half the presale estimate, as buyers shunned some top lots for being too expensive.

 

``These are old prices,'' said New York dealer Alberto Mugrabi, whose family owns one of the largest Warhol collections, explaining why he let one Warhol work pass at Christie's last night. ``They would have to be readjusted. It can't be readjusted for every industry in the world and not for the art market.''

 

The auctions, coinciding with the Frieze Art Fair, were the first test of the market since governments bailed out more banks and stock markets crashed. Dealers were watching for clues on what will happen at New York sales in November. The contemporary-art market has enjoyed a bull run for the past five years, with prices for artists including Warhol, Takashi Murakami and Richard Prince more than quadrupling.

 

Hushed Crowd

 

The weekend ended with a Christie's evening sale that included works by Francis Bacon, Fontana and Freud. Christie's failed to sell 45 percent of the 47 lots on offer. There was a hush in a crowded room as auctioneer Jussi Pylkkanen knocked down the lots in less than an hour.

 

``It was bad, but it wasn't terrible,'' said Mugrabi.

 

Pylkkanen looked to Mugrabi for a bid when he offered Warhol's ``Nine Multicolored Marilyns'' from the ``Reversal''series, estimated to fetch at least 2.2 million pounds. Mugrabi offered 1.85 million pounds and declined to go up to 1.9 million. The bid didn't meet the reserve level and the artwork was bought in by the London-based auction house.

 

The Warhol was one of six lots on which Christie's had promised sellers a minimum price regardless of the outcome. Three of these failed to sell, including Bacon's ``Portrait of Henrietta Moraes'' (1969). The yellow canvas flopped against a presale low estimate of 5.5 million pounds. These failed guaranteed lots were expected to fetch at least 7.95 million pounds.

 

Reserves Watched

 

``Things have been overpriced; they need to come down,'' said Glenn Scott-Wright, director at London's Victoria Miro gallery, who attended the sale. ``If Christie's had dropped the reserves by 20 percent, it would have done better.''

 

Last night's top seller was Fontana's black egg-shaped, glitter-dusted canvas ``Concetto Spaziale, La Fine di Dio'' (1963), which fetched 9 million pounds against the presale estimate of about 12 million pounds. Before the auction, Christie's announced that persons with a financial interest in the guaranteed work would be bidding. There was no demand in the room and the auctioneer provided the sole bid.

 

London dealer Stephen Ongpin, bidding for a collector, bought the evening's other high-value lot, Freud's 1956-57 unfinished portrait of Bacon. He paid 5.4 million pounds for the life-size face of the artist, against the presale low estimate of 5 million pounds.

 

As on the previous two nights, works by artists whose prices have risen rapidly in the last five years didn't attract support. At Christies, pieces in the range of 500,000 pounds to 900,000 pounds by Warhol, Jeff Koons, Jean-Michel Basquiat and Ed Ruscha were deemed too expensive.

 

 

Unsold Richter

 

German artist Gerhard Richter didn't fare much better. Two of his abstract canvases, estimated in the region of 6 million pounds and 2 million pounds, didn't sell.

 

``Obviously we need to adjust our prices,'' said Ed Dolman, Christie's chief executive officer. `There isn't too much confidence out there.''

 

Christie's auction took 32 million pounds with fees, below the presale low estimate of 57 million pounds.

 

Sotheby's 62-lot sale on Oct. 17 fetched 22 million pounds with fees.

Sotheby's had estimated that it would raise a total of between 30.6 million pounds and 42.8 million pounds.

 

Phillips de Pury's 70-lot sale on Oct. 18 fetched 5 million pounds with fees, against a lower estimate of 18.6 million pounds.Forty-six percent of the Phillips lots failed to find buyers, including works by Murakami and Prince.

 

Sotheby's shares dropped 21 cents, or 1.97 percent, to $10.44 in New York on Oct. 17. The stock is down 72.6 percent this year.

 

A survey of U.K. valuers said the Damien Hirst auction last month may have marked the top of the art market.

 

``It's a turning point,'' said Nicolai Frahm, a London-based art adviser, at the Phillips sale. ``The estimates were fairly high and the financial markets are so tough at the moment.''

 

(Scott Reyburn and Katya Kazakina are reporters for Bloomberg News. Opinions expressed are their own.)

 

For Related News:

Art auction news from Bloomberg: TNI AUCTION MUSE Top arts and lifestyle stories: MUSE Art reviews: TNI ART REVIEWS Sotheby's auctions BID US TCNI AUCTION .

London art auction news search: STNI LONDONART .

 

--Editors: Mark Beech, Le-Min Lim.

 

To contact the writers on the story:

Katya Kazakina in London at kkazakina@bloomberg.net; Scott Reyburn in London at sreyburn@hotmail.com.

 

To contact the editor responsible for this story:

Manuela Hoelterhoff at +1-212-617-3486 or mhoelterhoff@bloomberg.net.

 

 

 

[delekkerste]

Buying frenzy ends at Frieze Art Fair...

 

Quote of the article: "I can buy companies for the price of art."

 

 

Shocked Collectors Seek Bargains as Frieze Buying Stampede Ebbs

 

2008-10-19 23:59:04.630 GMT

 

By Katya Kazakina and Scott Reyburn

 

Oct. 20 (Bloomberg) -- The annual frenzied sales at London's Frieze Art Fair evaporated this year as collectors felt no pressure to make expensive purchases instantly, dealers said.

 

``People are shell-shocked by the world economy,'' said New York gallerist Marianne Boesky, who had a booth at the five-day fair, which ended yesterday. ``People are buying but they're taking it slowly and not rushing into things.''

 

Boesky sold a small painting by Barnaby Furnas for $50,000 and a sculpture-and-photo installation by emerging artist William J. O'Brien for $12,500. Her more expensive works -- a $400,000 painting by Lisa Yuskavage and $1.8 million painting by Takashi Murakami -- had a harder time finding buyers.

 

Now in its sixth year, Frieze is considered one of the world's three most important contemporary-art fairs, along with Art Basel in Switzerland in June and Art Basel Miami Beach in December.

 

Even visits from Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich, his partner Dasha Zhukova, actress Gwyneth Paltrow, singer George Michael, New York collectors Susan and Michael Hort and art advisers to hedge-fund managers Sandy Heller and Todd Levin, didn't spur much excitement.

 

Slower Is Better

 

``Sometimes slower is better,'' said Jill Silverman, director at Galerie Thaddaeus Ropac in Paris and Salzburg. ``I didn't like the stampede approach. I've been through three of these recessions. If you keep prices reasonable, you'll be OK.''

 

At Ropac's booth, an American collector paid 220,000 pounds

($380,182) for Antony Gormley's steel sculpture ``Stand II.'' Two private collectors and one European museum foundation lined up for Ilya & Emilia Kabakov's 9-foot-high 2007 painting, ``Canon #1,''for $550,000.

 

An American buyer paid 875,000 pounds for a stainless steel mirror by Anish Kapoor at London's Lisson Gallery, said director of sales Michelle d'Souza. London and Zurich dealers Hauser & Wirth sold both editions of Subodh Gupta's 8-foot-high stainless steel skull sculpture, ``Mind Shut Down,'' for just over 1 million euros ($1.34 million) each.

 

The contemporary-art market has enjoyed a bull run for the past five years, with prices for artists including Andy Warhol, Murakami and Richard Prince more than quadrupling.

 

Some collectors wondered when art prices will adjust to reflect the global economic meltdown.

 

``The art world is totally disconnected from the financial world,'' said London collector Amir Shariat, an adviser to hedge funds and private-equity firms at Auctor Capital Partners Ltd.

 

Too Costly

 

Unlike last year, Shariat didn't buy anything at Frieze because prices were too high.

 

``I can buy companies for the price of art,'' he said.

 

Moscow-based collectors Sardor and Lida Mirzazhanov, who attended Frieze for the second year, looked at an ornate, $180,000 steel work by Teresita Fernandez at Lehmann Maupin gallery but passed on it.

 

``Whatever we liked cost more than what we considered adequate, especially given the current economic situation,'' said Lida Mirzazhanov.

 

Some dealers appeared to have lowered prices. At London's White Cube, a richly enameled painting by Anglo-Indian star Raqib Shaw was on hold at 575,000 pounds. In June at Art Basel, a similar-sized work by Shaw sold for 750,000 pounds.

 

``This is not a good time for expensive things,'' said Cologne-based dealer Alex Lachmann. ``Works priced reasonably between 100,000 pounds and 500,000 pounds can do OK.''

 

Young Artists Sell

 

Younger artists showing at Frieze attracted buyers. Victoria Miro sold five etchings by Turner Prize-winning Grayson Perry and an edition of six images by a U.K. photographer Idris Khan, all priced at 16,000 pounds each.

 

Critically acclaimed young Los Angeles artist Sterling Ruby had two large sculptures at Frieze: New York's Metro Pictures sold his plywood circle dripping with polyurethane paint for $150,000 while his 16-foot-high obelisk at Spruth Magers gallery went for $135,000.

 

Striking color photographs depicting bear skins and a giant bronze boot by Ukrainian artist Sergey Bratkov cost 1,200 euros to 10,000 euros at Regina Gallery from Moscow. Several pieces sold, but collectors were asking for discounts.

 

``They wanted prices to be in dollars, not in euros,'' said the gallery owner Vladimir Ovcharenko. ``That's a 35 percent discount.''

 

At the Zoo Art Fair, a satellite show that features emerging artists and galleries that have been in business for less than six years, works below 50,000 pounds were popular sellers. The fair attracted curators from the Museum of Modern Art in New York, London's Tate Modern and the Whitechapel Art Gallery.

 

Elvis Portrait

 

London's Riflemaker gallery sold Gavin Turk's ``Faded Glory,'' a Warhol-style yellow silkscreen portrait of the young Elvis Presley, for 34,000 pounds. Bose Pacia of New York sold 9 collage and mixed media pieces by Indian artist Radhika Khimji for prices between 850 pounds and 2,000 pounds.

 

At the small Kounter Kulture fair in an old brewery in East London, 37-year-old artist Dave White was on hand to discuss his work with customers. His Pop Art-like paintings and watercolors of planes and tanks inspired by vintage war comics sold briskly for prices that ranged from 1,762 pounds to 45,000 pounds.

 

``In this financial climate, if a client is taking the time to invest in my work, I want to meet them and invest in them,'' White said.

 

 

(Katya Kazakina and Scott Reyburn are reporters for Bloomberg News. The opinions expressed are their own.)

 

For Related News:

Top arts and lifestyle stories: MUSE Auction news: TNI AUCTION MUSE Art reviews: TNI ART REVIEWS

 

--Editors: Mary Romano, Mark Beech.

 

To contact the reporters on the story:

Katya Kazakina in London at kkazakina@bloomberg.net.

Scott Reyburn in London at sreyburn@hotmail.com.

 

To contact the editor responsible for this story:

Manuela Hoelterhoff at +1-212-617-3486 or mhoelterhoff@bloomberg.net.