Economic Hardship in a Deflation and OA

[Nexus]

Just one example of art not crashing...

 

I wanted to add a second V page to my collection.

 

A decent but not great page was on eBay this week sold for $3K+...the same page sold in July on ComicLink for $2.7K

 

Another thing to note about that auction is that the winner was Albert Moy. So the next time you see it again, the price tag will be that much higher. Interesting that even in this extremely cautious environment, he's still buying and sees upside in certain pieces.

 

As for V in general...this may well be isolated and no reflection about the OA market as a whole, but values have been going nuts! A page sold for $12K earlier this year and I was convinced that would be the high-water mark for the foreseeable future. But, just recently, another one sold for around $20K cash and yet another one had a $20K+ cash offer (amazingly enough, the owner didn't sell )

 

Congrats to those who want a V example and already have one...for anyone else...wait for The Crash!

 

WATCHMEN pages, too, have had multiple five-figure private sales in recent weeks.

 

Before anyone accuses me of self-interest, I'll just repeat what I've said earlier: I will NOT be selling. Also, I think these values are NUTS. If I didn't already have my examples, I would NOT be paying these current prices. For example, I will not be getting a KILLING JOKE page when they are trading in the $30K range. Congrats to those who can afford to, or choose to, spend that kind of money...I'm not one of them!

 

I'm not worried about a Crash...I welcome it (assuming my buying power remains the same )! I just don't see it happening, though. Sure, some art might get dumped on the market, and some values may become depressed as a result...but I just don't see panic-selling on a mass scale that would be enough to obliterate all value across the board in OA.

 

As always, we shall see!

[Jesusjon]

WATCHMEN pages, too, have had multiple five-figure private sales in recent weeks.

 

How am I missing out on all these!! (Granted I am looking for something pretty specific.)

 

I see the market for the best examples of comic art riding out the storm, but do expect the "bubble" to burst for the lesser grades. I also have been getting offers on pieces I own and turning them down, while being unable to obtain key pieces on my want list. (and they're not all Watchmen pages) I know where a lot of art I want is, and those owners apparently haven't been affected by the economy. (Not that I want them to be. I want us all to keep our jobs, knock on wood.)

[spider9698]

Gene

Great posts. I was planning on attending the Christies Photography auction next week in NYC but I anticipate a bloodbath and will likely watch from home. Heritage does have a significant bump in quality pieces for November. Whether new records will be set or reserves met remains to be seen. I am leery about dropping significant money into OA at this time. If prices due "correct" it will not occur overnight.

S

 

[malvin]

While there is no doubt the economic issues will affect comic art, I don't think it will be an across the board decline.

 

Even for some of the non-prime stuff I have, I have gotten generous offers. I'm not talkig big figures, just pieces that I paid $100 for that people are offering $200-$300. Some I've accepted, some I've turn away.

 

As many have said, I tend to buy what I like, and I don't need the money to live, so it won't hurt me too much even if it declines.

 

Malvin

[NelsonAI]

I do believe people are more cautious about their spending. Even those with deep pockets are having a wait and see attitude.

 

However, ....

 

Contemporary art prices in Asia hit close to $3 million and don't meet the reserve for the piece? I thinks it's more greed on the seller than an indication that art prices are dropping off a cliff.

 

Maybe collectors of contemporary art are tired of being manipulated by the hype. When word leaks out that Hirst participated in an investment syndicate to buy his own $100 million diamond encrusted skull, maybe collectors decide enough is enough.

 

Cheers!

N

 

[westform]

Well, if nothing else at least we as buyers can hopefully use the overall economic crisis du jour news to our advantage when negotiating. It sure beats the heck out of being told by sellers/dealers that the sky is the limit on choice pieces and just turn out your pockets when buying. A little softening or at least meeting in the middle would do wonders for the market in my opinion..... well, at least until the next Heritage sale. If prices spike upwards again, we are still in big trouble, as collectors anyway. DF

[delekkerste]

 

[comix4fun]

[comix4fun]

Well, if nothing else at least we as buyers can hopefully use the overall economic crisis du jour news to our advantage when negotiating. DF

 

 

 

That is a great idea Dan....I will start working on my technique now..Give them the big sad eyes, and sniffle, then lay it on thick.

 

 

Please Meeester, Don't you see that I have no money's for that the Dow Jones has taken it? I have been sub-primed out of being able to pay so much for your Ditko pages, if you would allow me a smaller price to pay until the bailout has a chance to refill my moneys?

[westform]

ummmm, what? You're not buying it....?

 

Ok, didn't think so...; but it's worth a shot.

 

Oh Merciful Jesus! Where's that correction in OA prices I've been waiting for for 15 years!?!?!?

 

Sorry, forgive that outburst.

 

I will now go back to 'over-paying' for art.

[batman_fan]

I am 100% convinced the economy is affecting the OA market. I have been tracking Ebay auction for some time and the steady trends has been an increase in the number of list by close to 30%. Same story for GA as well accept it is it is closer to 40%. Hopefully people don't take this to mean I think Ditko Spiderman splashes will be list at a few hundred bucks, but I think there are a lot of people trying to move lesser desirable stuff right now. I also think there is more quality stuff coming to the market right now. This doesn't mean I believe the hammer price for the nce stuff will be bargin basement prices, some of it may hit new records, but I do think there will be buying opportunities in the near future, especially on second tier stuff.

 

For myself, there are two long time (we are talking 15 year grails) on the market rigth now. I would love both, but given the current asking price and global economic issues, I am hesitate to pull the trigger and enter into a year long time payment session.

[J.Sid]

Tracking eBay auctions is a tricky thing. The quality has all dried up, so any results you have from 2008 are skewed by the (generally) less desirable things being offered. What would the market be like if the same quality we saw in 2003 was being offered on the 'bay with no reserve (the way folks used to do it)

 

There used to be Bolland Covers and Watchmen pages all the time. Dark Knight pages every couple months. Tons of stuff put up w/o reserve which would actually sell. Those days are gone. We don't see fresh stuff often, and when we do, it's priced starting at 2x what it would likely actually eBay for.

[tth2]

Gene, clearly you missed the "superhero exception":

 

Bright Spots

 

For instance, Indonesian painter I Nyoman Masriadi had already set a personal record on the first day of the Sotheby's auction when his huge canvas featuring Batman and Superman sitting on adjacent toilets sold for $620,000.

 

Balfour is Asia Correspondent for BusinessWeek based in Hong Kong. Lakshman covers India business for BusinessWeek.

[Mister Trent]

Gene, clearly you missed the "superhero exception":

 

Bright Spots

 

For instance, Indonesian painter I Nyoman Masriadi had already set a personal record on the first day of the Sotheby's auction when his huge canvas featuring Batman and Superman sitting on adjacent toilets sold for $620,000.

 

Balfour is Asia Correspondent for BusinessWeek based in Hong Kong. Lakshman covers India business for BusinessWeek.

 

$620,000!!! Holy super-turd, Batman!

[thehumantorch]

I think it will be a confusing market for a while. Some people will be selling because of difficult times and some people will be buying high quality items to avoid deflation of the value of the $$. Everytime the U.S. government prints money hard assets should increase in value.

[delekkerste]

I think it will be a confusing market for a while. Some people will be selling because of difficult times and some people will be buying high quality items to avoid deflation of the value of the $$. Everytime the U.S. government prints money hard assets should increase in value.

 

The monetary base of th U.S. had been flat for about 18 months and has only recently started going up. The only thing is, the velocity of money is now plummeting. These "hard assets will go up because the U.S. is printing money" arguments just don't make a lot of sense to me. Why anyone should be buying hard assets as we are getting sucked into the biggest deflationary spiral in this country since the Great Depression is very to me. And, remember, gold was revalued higher and fixed at $35/oz. during the Depression; otherwise it would have fallen with all the other financial and hard assets.

 

Cash looks pretty good to me here.

[delekkerste]

Who wants to be the *spoon* seen buying $40K Ditko pages and bragging about it on ComicArt-L and CAF in this tough economy rife with envy and class warfare rhetoric?

 

Like I keep saying - even those who have money will not be as keen to spend it when times are tough, either for optical, financial and/or psychological reasons.

 

 

Avoid Lamborghinis, Loud Logos Amid Financial Blues

 

2008-10-08 04:01:00.150 GMT

 

By Cotten Timberlake

 

Oct. 8 (Bloomberg) -- In-your-face luxury is suddenly very passe.

 

Ostentatious taste and conspicuous consumption will make way for conservative looks and ``stealth wealth'' in the wake of the worldwide financial crisis, said Milton Pedraza, chief executive officer of the Luxury Institute in New York.

 

``Nobody wants to be the luxury pinata,'' Pedraza said in an interview yesterday after a global sell-off sent markets reeling from Europe to Asia. ``Who wants to be the focus of attention on greedy spending in a tremendous crisis?''

 

Luxury consumers will still covet extraordinary things, but they'll spend less and won't let everyone know what they're consuming, Pedraza said. That may be especially true for members of the financial industry, he said.

 

``If you made your money on Wall Street, you are going to be an unpopular guest,'' Pedraza said. ``You clearly need to be discreet, far more than those who made their money in, for example, technology. Even Donald Trump is going to be a little more subdued.''

 

Bloomberg News asked Pedraza to identify the dos and don'ts of luxury consumption during a financial meltdown. His firm surveys the wealthy regularly and sells data to clients including major luxury-goods makers.

 

Living in ``a huge McMansion'' is out, and buying a ``classic Colonial'' is in, Pedraza said. Owning the biggest yacht is out, and choosing an environmentally friendly model is in, he said.

 

``I don't think you'll want to show up in your orange Lamborghini,'' Pedraza said. `You might want to bring your navy blue BMW instead.''

 

Fewer Insignias

 

Oversize watches are no-nos, he said, while classic timepieces are de rigueur. Likewise, forget $10,000 mobile phones and buy an iPhone instead.

 

Insignia mania will subside as the wealthy get frugal, Pedraza predicted. That should benefit brands like Hermes, Bottega Veneta, Salvatore Ferragamo, Patek Philippe and Vacheron Constantin, he said.

 

``Logo-free is optimal,'' Pedraza said. ``Logo-subdued is the next-best alternative.''

 

Men's fashions will undergo a noticeable change, he forecast.

 

``The `I'm-rich-but-casual' look is out, and the `I'm- credible-and-conservative' suit and tie are in,'' Pedraza said.

 

``You don't want to be the most casual-looking guy in the room with a custom shirt and chinos.''

 

The tie will make a big comeback, he predicted, with men favoring slender styles with sedate patterns over solid bright- colored ties with big knots.

 

Loafers Out, Wingtips In

 

In the current environment, bold, multicolored shirts with French cuffs and bejeweled cuff links are ``tacky,'' Pedraza said.

 

Loafers -- in particular, rubber-studded driving shoes -- now seem ``flimsy'' and streamlined wingtips are the better, more substantial choice, he said.

 

Pedraza also said more men will start carrying attache cases as a symbol of gravitas. As for the bigger picture, the luxury expert sees a gender shift.

 

``Women are in as CEOs and board members, men are out,''

Pedraza said. ``Men have lost a lot of credibility.''

 

For Related News:

Top arts and lifestyle stories: MUSE Luxury goods stories: NI LUX Retailing and fashion stories: TNI RET CLO

 

--Editors: Rick Warner, Yvette Ferreol.

 

[Nexus]

I guess that explains why there's no more Aston Martin name plate in your sig

 

And shouldn't that be "$10K Ditko pages"?

 

I don't care what people think, I'll keep showing off anything new I get. I'm sure those standing in the bread line with me won't mind

[Sharkey]

Jeez, it must be tough to be an icon of wealth these days. *sniff*

 

I'm sure the lambourghini owners are really worried about what the general public thinks of them and their jeweled cufflinks.

 

I know I'll be taking their advice and avoiding purchasing a lambo now and downsizing my luxury yacht to a more environmentally friendly model....

 

Seriously though, this article seems to focus more on "hiding" your wealth than the wealthy actually taking a hit financially. As is typical of much of today's society, perception is more important than reality.

 

The article also seems to be a glorified "what's in, what's out" bunch of fluff. Which is what I'd expect from any writer named "Cotten Timberlake". Yeah yeah, male CEOs are out. I'm seeing that happening all over the place.... um not so much.

 

 

 

Who wants to be the *spoon* seen buying $40K Ditko pages and bragging about it on ComicArt-L and CAF in this tough economy rife with envy and class warfare rhetoric?

 

Like I keep saying - even those who have money will not be as keen to spend it when times are tough, either for optical, financial and/or psychological reasons.

 

 

Avoid Lamborghinis, Loud Logos Amid Financial Blues

 

2008-10-08 04:01:00.150 GMT

 

By Cotten Timberlake

 

Oct. 8 (Bloomberg) -- In-your-face luxury is suddenly very passe.

 

Ostentatious taste and conspicuous consumption will make way for conservative looks and ``stealth wealth'' in the wake of the worldwide financial crisis, said Milton Pedraza, chief executive officer of the Luxury Institute in New York.

 

``Nobody wants to be the luxury pinata,'' Pedraza said in an interview yesterday after a global sell-off sent markets reeling from Europe to Asia. ``Who wants to be the focus of attention on greedy spending in a tremendous crisis?''

 

Luxury consumers will still covet extraordinary things, but they'll spend less and won't let everyone know what they're consuming, Pedraza said. That may be especially true for members of the financial industry, he said.

 

``If you made your money on Wall Street, you are going to be an unpopular guest,'' Pedraza said. ``You clearly need to be discreet, far more than those who made their money in, for example, technology. Even Donald Trump is going to be a little more subdued.''

 

Bloomberg News asked Pedraza to identify the dos and don'ts of luxury consumption during a financial meltdown. His firm surveys the wealthy regularly and sells data to clients including major luxury-goods makers.

 

Living in ``a huge McMansion'' is out, and buying a ``classic Colonial'' is in, Pedraza said. Owning the biggest yacht is out, and choosing an environmentally friendly model is in, he said.

 

``I don't think you'll want to show up in your orange Lamborghini,'' Pedraza said. `You might want to bring your navy blue BMW instead.''

 

Fewer Insignias

 

Oversize watches are no-nos, he said, while classic timepieces are de rigueur. Likewise, forget $10,000 mobile phones and buy an iPhone instead.

 

Insignia mania will subside as the wealthy get frugal, Pedraza predicted. That should benefit brands like Hermes, Bottega Veneta, Salvatore Ferragamo, Patek Philippe and Vacheron Constantin, he said.

 

``Logo-free is optimal,'' Pedraza said. ``Logo-subdued is the next-best alternative.''

 

Men's fashions will undergo a noticeable change, he forecast.

 

``The `I'm-rich-but-casual' look is out, and the `I'm- credible-and-conservative' suit and tie are in,'' Pedraza said.

 

``You don't want to be the most casual-looking guy in the room with a custom shirt and chinos.''

 

The tie will make a big comeback, he predicted, with men favoring slender styles with sedate patterns over solid bright- colored ties with big knots.

 

Loafers Out, Wingtips In

 

In the current environment, bold, multicolored shirts with French cuffs and bejeweled cuff links are ``tacky,'' Pedraza said.

 

Loafers -- in particular, rubber-studded driving shoes -- now seem ``flimsy'' and streamlined wingtips are the better, more substantial choice, he said.

 

Pedraza also said more men will start carrying attache cases as a symbol of gravitas. As for the bigger picture, the luxury expert sees a gender shift.

 

``Women are in as CEOs and board members, men are out,''

Pedraza said. ``Men have lost a lot of credibility.''

 

For Related News:

Top arts and lifestyle stories: MUSE Luxury goods stories: NI LUX Retailing and fashion stories: TNI RET CLO

 

--Editors: Rick Warner, Yvette Ferreol.

[delekkerste]

I guess that explains why there's no more Aston Martin name plate in your sig

 

Mock me now, believe me later.