What's your opinion? A comic book bubble?

[Ogami]

the blob,

 

not to argue in a matter of degrees, but I think JC is generally right, and he's suggesting that what was hot at the moment ( a fad, if you will) is not what is most important, long term. Not to suggest that there weren't strong sellers during those years that have sustained slow steady growth, with bursts of high gains.

 

That's what I got out of his post. B&W, Valiant, Modern high grade CGC books, all fads.

[VintageComics]

There has been a comic pricing bubble for decades. Every time record prices have been set there have been naysayers pointing fingers and screaming "the end is near!!".

 

Spoken like a true Johnny-Come-Lately who only buys during the hot periods.

 

If you were around for the crashes, you would know that the "end" did come for tons of hot comics, and whatever the masses are buying and speculators are attracted to, tends to bubble up then crash back down.

 

A lot of people forget that in the 80's, the hot back issues were Independents and Copper, not BA, SA or GA - same with the 90's, it was all Valiant and the Chrome Hype back issues that more people were clamoring for. Now it's CGC graded books that are receiving the lion's share of the back issue money, with a heavy concentration on SA and BA.

 

JC, I was talking in respects to the whole hobby in general and not one genre.

 

go yourself.

 

On ignore is how I like you. Obstinate .

 

R.

 

 

[the blob]

That's what I got out of his post. B&W, Valiant, Modern high grade CGC books, all fads.

_________________________

 

ummm. the ship has already sailed a long time ago on modern HG cgc books putting aside some variants or the oddball small publisher's/surprise book that takes off. i don't think that's the bubble people were referring to. the question is whether there's a bubble that's going to pop when 9.6 an 9.8s of some kindah oridinary BA books, for example, are hitting high triple digits and Hero for Hire 1 in 9.6 or 9.8 can buy you a decent car, etc. Not to mention $50-$100K for a decent looking AF 15. Think about how many collectors in 1976 had or could have gotten their hands on a nice mid-grade copy of that book? It was only 15 years old (and no, I don't buy that it is "rare" because I haven't had a hard time finding decent copies of some of the other AF issues...) My old LCS had a mid-grade AF 15 up on the wall in the 80's as did the one half a mile away..

 

Seriously, here's a decent looking AF 14 for $100:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Amazing-Fantasy-14-Marvel-Atlas-horror-comic-all-Ditko_W0QQitemZ120316546209QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item120316546209&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

 

ok, in that condition #15 wouldn't be $50K, but would it be over $10K?

 

that's the bubble, if there is one (and the AF 15 is probably most likely to hold up well), that and lots of other books pumped into the four and five digit range as well as countless $200-$300 slabs that would be $50-75 books if raw.

[JazzMan]

 

Good points, so far, however with the supply already set and only decreasing instead of increasing for keys, runs, HG, etc., do you guys think that our hobby is as susceptable to the marketplace in consideration that, unlike housing, our demand comes from a worldwide market and with the variations in currency, it may lessen the ultimate effects?

 

 

How is the supply already set? In regards to hg issues? Arent' OO collections found occasionally??

 

By supply already set I mean there are only so many issues already in print, there aren't any new issues of keys or old books being printed, so even if OO collections are put to market, there aren't any new books being created. The only difference I would see that ripples the market behavior would be warehouse finds where there is a sudden influx of new books thereby diluting the supply.

[joe_collector]

go yourself.

 

[skybolt]

I think the best option for any collector is to work out a strategy that will help satisfy both your collecting habits, and not losing your shirt when deciding to sell. Over the past 5 years I've been very eager and happy to pay over market prices to obtain a decent GGA collection. As "Pennynike1" has mentioned before, a lot of these books can have inflated prices since it becomes a bidding war between 2 or 3 collectors. Therefore, I know that if I decide to sell these books in the future, I'll probably take a 15 to 20% loss in the process (when including grading and consigning fees).

 

To offset this scenario, I also decided to purchase and keep a decent amount of key SA Marvels in semi-HG condition. I'll only sell these books when the market is hot for them. For instance, I made about $1,300 after selling my 9.0 and 9.4 copies of Iron Man #1 before the movie came out, $500 for 2 of my 4 copies of ASM #300 in CGC 9.6 condition, etc. I love these books, but I know I can replace them in the future, especially if the market cools off once the movie hits theaters.

 

I think the "Johnny Come Lately" statement is correct for some books, but key HG SA and GA books seem to be insolated from this scenario. I always hated the fact that I paid close to record GPA prices for my ASM #1 CGC 8.0 ($9,500), and X-Men #1 CGC 8.5 ($7,150) after the movies had already come out back in 2003. However, I do believe that both books could reach $20K in value in a few years time.

 

Anyway, what I'm basically trying to say is that 90% of vintage comic collectors are not looking to retire from their comic book investments, but at the same time aren't spending $2.5 K of discretionary income for an 8.0 copy of Daredevil #1, and then give it away for free 10-years later. Heck, I'm sure the book will be worth as much as the paper it's printed on if there's a nuclear war and total chaos in the streets. At the same time, our bank savings and the land we own will be worthless as well, since we won't be able to access them due to the lawlessness running rampant in the streets.

 

Most collectors will be happy to get back 95% of what they spent on their collection, since it would mean that on the avearge it only cost them $5,000 over 10 years to own a great $100,000 collection. IMO, owning these books at a $500 loss a year is better than buying moderns for the same amount. To each his own I guess!

[Ogami]

the blob,

 

yeah, I agree with you here about the madness of multipliers in the upper grades of books SA and BA.

 

3x, 10x, 300x, etc. for the highest grade of the first appearance of Broccoli Man.

 

 

 

Am I following you right?

[the blob]

yup, multipliers can be silly

 

 

[NewWorldOrder]

the blob,

 

not to argue in a matter of degrees, but I think JC is generally right, and he's suggesting that what was hot at the moment ( a fad, if you will) is not what is most important, long term. Not to suggest that there weren't strong sellers during those years that have sustained slow steady growth, with bursts of high gains.

 

That's what I got out of his post. B&W, Valiant, Modern high grade CGC books, all fads.

 

Valiants are not a Fad.....its been 16 years and they are still good.

 

Really the only good stuff from the 90's.

 

Modern books are not fads, they are just fads if you someone buys them righr away.

 

Check out any of the hot books from a year ago because you can get them for half for price now. COMMON SENSE!

[Ogami]

Valiants are not a Fad.....its been 16 years and they are still good.

 

 

Valiants, as a product, were most certainly a fad. By any sense of that definition. And further, they were arrested development- they had such potential and could have made the big two into the big three, but for multiple reasons, were unable to do so.

 

Valiant, as a creative work, has some substance. I bought most Valiants off the rack, and loved the characters, storylines, and art, and kept most of them up until recently. Whoever got my lots of books off ebay truly got CGC worthy copies of some nice pre-Unity stuff.

 

But they were a fad.

[the blob]

yeah, they were a fad at $50-$100 a pop a year or two after they came out. doesn't mean they weren't good. being good helped make the bubble.

[NewWorldOrder]

Valiants are not a Fad.....its been 16 years and they are still good.

 

 

Valiants, as a product, were most certainly a fad. By any sense of that definition. And further, they were arrested development- they had such potential and could have made the big two into the big three, but for multiple reasons, were unable to do so.

 

Valiant, as a creative work, has some substance. I bought most Valiants off the rack, and loved the characters, storylines, and art, and kept most of them up until recently. Whoever got my lots of books off ebay truly got CGC worthy copies of some nice pre-Unity stuff.

 

But they were a fad.

 

A Fad means hot today and no where to be found tomorrow.

 

Valiant is very in demand as of right now.

 

Lets me re-phrase Pre-Unity Valiant was over valued when they first came out in the 1990's but collectors are scooping up Pre-Unity Valiant now and just look at the CGC 9.8 Harbingers #1.

 

IMO.Valiant will be the only books sought after from the early 90's.

[Ogami]

Valiants are not a Fad.....its been 16 years and they are still good.

 

 

Valiants, as a product, were most certainly a fad. By any sense of that definition. And further, they were arrested development- they had such potential and could have made the big two into the big three, but for multiple reasons, were unable to do so.

 

Valiant, as a creative work, has some substance. I bought most Valiants off the rack, and loved the characters, storylines, and art, and kept most of them up until recently. Whoever got my lots of books off ebay truly got CGC worthy copies of some nice pre-Unity stuff.

 

But they were a fad.

 

A Fad means hot today and no where to be found tomorrow.

 

Valiant is very in demand as of right now.

 

Lets me re-phrase Pre-Unity Valiant was over valued when they first came out in the 1990's but collectors are scooping up Pre-Unity Valiant now and just look at the CGC 9.8 Harbingers #1.

 

IMO.Valiant will be the only books sought after from the early 90's.

 

I respectfully disagree as to the definition of a fad that you are using, and even moreeo that "Valiant is very in demand as of right now".

 

If you mean a handful of books in 9.6 or better, sure, maybe.

 

But not, "Valiant" as in the company wide product.

[NewWorldOrder]

Valiants are not a Fad.....its been 16 years and they are still good.

 

 

Valiants, as a product, were most certainly a fad. By any sense of that definition. And further, they were arrested development- they had such potential and could have made the big two into the big three, but for multiple reasons, were unable to do so.

 

Valiant, as a creative work, has some substance. I bought most Valiants off the rack, and loved the characters, storylines, and art, and kept most of them up until recently. Whoever got my lots of books off ebay truly got CGC worthy copies of some nice pre-Unity stuff.

 

But they were a fad.

 

A Fad means hot today and no where to be found tomorrow.

 

Valiant is very in demand as of right now.

 

Lets me re-phrase Pre-Unity Valiant was over valued when they first came out in the 1990's but collectors are scooping up Pre-Unity Valiant now and just look at the CGC 9.8 Harbingers #1.

 

IMO.Valiant will be the only books sought after from the early 90's.

 

I respectfully disagree as to the definition of a fad that you are using, and even moreeo that "Valiant is very in demand as of right now".

 

If you mean a handful of books in 9.6 or better, sure, maybe.

 

But not, "Valiant" as in the company wide product.

 

HG Pre-Unity, Gold-Platinum variants, and last issues of Valiant have been in huge demand for the past couple years.

 

The Sales Speak for themselves.

[Ogami]

Valiants are not a Fad.....its been 16 years and they are still good.

 

 

Valiants, as a product, were most certainly a fad. By any sense of that definition. And further, they were arrested development- they had such potential and could have made the big two into the big three, but for multiple reasons, were unable to do so.

 

Valiant, as a creative work, has some substance. I bought most Valiants off the rack, and loved the characters, storylines, and art, and kept most of them up until recently. Whoever got my lots of books off ebay truly got CGC worthy copies of some nice pre-Unity stuff.

 

But they were a fad.

 

A Fad means hot today and no where to be found tomorrow.

 

Valiant is very in demand as of right now.

 

Lets me re-phrase Pre-Unity Valiant was over valued when they first came out in the 1990's but collectors are scooping up Pre-Unity Valiant now and just look at the CGC 9.8 Harbingers #1.

 

IMO.Valiant will be the only books sought after from the early 90's.

 

I respectfully disagree as to the definition of a fad that you are using, and even moreeo that "Valiant is very in demand as of right now".

 

If you mean a handful of books in 9.6 or better, sure, maybe.

 

But not, "Valiant" as in the company wide product.

 

HG Pre-Unity, Gold-Platinum variants, and last issues of Valiant have been in huge demand for the past couple years.

 

The Sales Speak for themselves.

 

thanks for agreeing with me-

 

a handful of issues

in high grade

 

(and let me add, not all of Pre-Unity, trust me, I had them and sold them). The sales do indeed speak for themselves.

 

but not, the company or entire line, which is what you suggested.

 

and this is for you. This will be my last word on this topic.

[NewWorldOrder]

 

I am sure most of us here would see a comic bubble burst before it happens, so the notion that you can't sell your whole collection before it happens is to me.

 

 

That is of you are worried about losing money anyway.

 

However I don't think the comic bubble will burst anytime soon maybe just deflat a little which is a good thing .

 

The main difference between now and the late 1990's comic burst was the wrong kind of Speculators were buying modern like 10 copies of Spawn 1 or 50 copies of Superman 500.

 

Now people are buying good vintage HG Raw or CGC slabs of the good stuff, and I feel a lot of these investors or collectors like myself know that you need to hang on to them for years rather than trying to resell your book within months like those insufficiently_thoughtful_persons did with new modern . Only stuff you should buy to flip quick are the books that have to do with movies before it opens…ie now you should buy Hulk 181 or avengers 4, or the 1st hulk vs avengers battle if you maybe want to flip real quick prior to the movie hype.

 

Don’t worry true believers are hobby looks strong for years to come!

 

[Ogami]

I do admire your optimism.

 

You're kind of a Bizzaro JC.

[nik]

Fad = Encapsulation

[NewWorldOrder]

Valiants are not a Fad.....its been 16 years and they are still good.

 

 

Valiants, as a product, were most certainly a fad. By any sense of that definition. And further, they were arrested development- they had such potential and could have made the big two into the big three, but for multiple reasons, were unable to do so.

 

Valiant, as a creative work, has some substance. I bought most Valiants off the rack, and loved the characters, storylines, and art, and kept most of them up until recently. Whoever got my lots of books off ebay truly got CGC worthy copies of some nice pre-Unity stuff.

 

But they were a fad.

 

A Fad means hot today and no where to be found tomorrow.

 

Valiant is very in demand as of right now.

 

Lets me re-phrase Pre-Unity Valiant was over valued when they first came out in the 1990's but collectors are scooping up Pre-Unity Valiant now and just look at the CGC 9.8 Harbingers #1.

 

IMO.Valiant will be the only books sought after from the early 90's.

 

I respectfully disagree as to the definition of a fad that you are using, and even moreeo that "Valiant is very in demand as of right now".

 

If you mean a handful of books in 9.6 or better, sure, maybe.

 

But not, "Valiant" as in the company wide product.

 

HG Pre-Unity, Gold-Platinum variants, and last issues of Valiant have been in huge demand for the past couple years.

 

The Sales Speak for themselves.

 

thanks for agreeing with me-

 

a handful of issues

in high grade

 

(and let me add, not all of Pre-Unity, trust me, I had them and sold them). The sales do indeed speak for themselves.

 

but not, the company or entire line, which is what you suggested.

 

and this is for you. This will be my last word on this topic.

 

I meant pre-unity valiant.

 

If you have some I will buy them from you.

 

Bogs were a fad, but if you want to say Pre-unity Valiant or Valiant was a price-fad I would say yes, but alot of people are still buying/selling valiant as we speak, so I still would not consider Valiant comics a fad.

 

Just my opinion.

[NewWorldOrder]

I do admire your optimism.

 

You're kind of a Bizzaro JC.