A List of Unrestored Action 1's and their Owners

[Ze-man]

I hate comic restoration in general. Every kind of it. If someone sold me a book with replaced staples and didn't disclose it would be on. I swear to God no doubt about it.

 

And thats what makes this hobby so fun, we get to look at things differently. At least we agree that people should disclose they replaced a staple.

 

Man, do I know how to kill a thread or what?

 

 

 

 

 

[EastCoastExchange-migratio]

I hate comic restoration in general. Every kind of it. If someone sold me a book with replaced staples and didn't disclose it would be on. I swear to God no doubt about it.

 

And thats what makes this hobby so fun, we get to look at things differently. At least we agree that people should disclose they replaced a staple.

 

Man, do I know how to kill a thread or what?

 

 

 

 

 

There is no way I could tell if that staple was replaced unless you told me. No way, and that is what scares me.

[spoonerism]

I hate comic restoration in general. Every kind of it. If someone sold me a book with replaced staples and didn't disclose it would be on. I swear to God no doubt about it.

 

And thats what makes this hobby so fun, we get to look at things differently. At least we agree that people should disclose they replaced a staple.

 

Man, do I know how to kill a thread or what?

 

 

Usually I'm the thread-killer, so I'm just happy it's not me.

 

Seriously, though, I think the book looks great! For someone who doesn't mind a little conservation and restoration, I think it's a great book.

 

As always, though, disclosure is key.

 

 

 

[Aman619]

hey, I just watched a show about that on the Discolsure Network!

[G.A.tor]

hey, I just watched a show about that on the Discolsure Network!

there is a whole network now

[tth2]

Case in point, I bought this book from Dale Roberts, and paid a decent price for it because it was a really nice book aside from the obvious. And since I plan on keeping this book for the long haul, and the staple bothered me I worked on it.

 

Replaced the rusted staple with same issue vintage staples,dry/wet cleaned the cover. Fixed the rust migrated paper area and supported the first few wraps that had also deteriorated. Applied minor CT to the staple area and bottom corners.

 

So while the book is now restored (and for all intentional purposes the value ruined), it is in better condition then it was before with minimal work being done. Yes I could have just swapped out the staples to prevent further damage and left off the CT, but to me it is almost worse to see new looking staples sitting next to rusted paper then to go ahead do what needs to be done even though most will look at it as tainted goods even though I can now pick it up and read it without fear of popping the top staple.

Well heck, why stop there, Kenny? If the only thing we care about is how perfect it looks without caring how it got that way, why not just take off the old cover altogether and replace it with a NM/M photocopy of the cover, then your book will look absolutely perfect.

[EastCoastExchange-migratio]

Case in point, I bought this book from Dale Roberts, and paid a decent price for it because it was a really nice book aside from the obvious. And since I plan on keeping this book for the long haul, and the staple bothered me I worked on it.

 

Replaced the rusted staple with same issue vintage staples,dry/wet cleaned the cover. Fixed the rust migrated paper area and supported the first few wraps that had also deteriorated. Applied minor CT to the staple area and bottom corners.

 

So while the book is now restored (and for all intentional purposes the value ruined), it is in better condition then it was before with minimal work being done. Yes I could have just swapped out the staples to prevent further damage and left off the CT, but to me it is almost worse to see new looking staples sitting next to rusted paper then to go ahead do what needs to be done even though most will look at it as tainted goods even though I can now pick it up and read it without fear of popping the top staple.

Well heck, why stop there, Kenny? If the only thing we care about is how perfect it looks without caring how it got that way, why not just take off the old cover altogether and replace it with a NM/M photocopy of the cover, then your book will look absolutely perfect.

 

[spillred]

Well heck, why stop there, Kenny? If the only thing we care about is how perfect it looks without caring how it got that way, why not just take off the old cover altogether and replace it with a NM/M photocopy of the cover, then your book will look absolutely perfect.

 

Sounded to me like he had the work done to preserve the longevity of his book, not just to make it look pretty? Rusty staples aren't going to fix themselves, and if left alone would eventually kill that book.

 

Maybe someday comic collectors will become more accepting of restoration/conservation/preservation, as it seems to be more accepted in other collector circles (paintings, cars, books, furniture, etc.) My personal opinion is that we are in the backlash period caused by many people who suddenly found out that a lot of their books were worked on.

[VintageComics]

Well heck, why stop there, Kenny? If the only thing we care about is how perfect it looks without caring how it got that way, why not just take off the old cover altogether and replace it with a NM/M photocopy of the cover, then your book will look absolutely perfect.

 

Sounded to me like he had the work done to preserve the longevity of his book, not just to make it look pretty? Rusty staples aren't going to fix themselves, and if left alone would eventually kill that book.

 

Maybe someday comic collectors will become more accepting of restoration/conservation/preservation, as it seems to be more accepted in other collector circles (paintings, cars, books, furniture, etc.) My personal opinion is that we are in the backlash period caused by many people who suddenly found out that a lot of their books were worked on.

 

...or just closed-minded people.

 

[Ze-man]

Well heck, why stop there, Kenny? If the only thing we care about is how perfect it looks without caring how it got that way, why not just take off the old cover altogether and replace it with a NM/M photocopy of the cover, then your book will look absolutely perfect.

 

Sounded to me like he had the work done to preserve the longevity of his book, not just to make it look pretty? Rusty staples aren't going to fix themselves, and if left alone would eventually kill that book.

 

Maybe someday comic collectors will become more accepting of restoration/conservation/preservation, as it seems to be more accepted in other collector circles (paintings, cars, books, furniture, etc.) My personal opinion is that we are in the backlash period caused by many people who suddenly found out that a lot of their books were worked on.

 

 

Don't worry, Tim was just being snarky.

 

But you are correct, the top staple was basically rusted through to the point the prongs were about to fall off so I opted to swap them out with Vintage staples instead of waiting for them to fall off and possilbly damage the centerfold or interior pages.

 

The other work I did was not 100% necessary, and was indeed meant to make the book look better. But seeing that peoples reaction to swapped out staples is not much different then their reaction to slight resto I figured it was a good book for me to hone my cover cleaning and CT skills and make the book look nice.

 

And Carolina, you would be able to tell the staples were swapped. The interior cover and centerfold display rust migration. When you see that next to a clean staples it tells you the staples were either cleaned, or replaced. In the case of this book you could assume due to the amount of migration on the paper it was not possible to just clean them but in fact they were replaced.

[adamstrange]

Case in point, I bought this book from Dale Roberts, and paid a decent price for it because it was a really nice book aside from the obvious. And since I plan on keeping this book for the long haul, and the staple bothered me I worked on it.

 

Replaced the rusted staple with same issue vintage staples,dry/wet cleaned the cover. Fixed the rust migrated paper area and supported the first few wraps that had also deteriorated. Applied minor CT to the staple area and bottom corners.

 

So while the book is now restored (and for all intentional purposes the value ruined), it is in better condition then it was before with minimal work being done. Yes I could have just swapped out the staples to prevent further damage and left off the CT, but to me it is almost worse to see new looking staples sitting next to rusted paper then to go ahead do what needs to be done even though most will look at it as tainted goods even though I can now pick it up and read it without fear of popping the top staple.

Well heck, why stop there, Kenny? If the only thing we care about is how perfect it looks without caring how it got that way, why not just take off the old cover altogether and replace it with a NM/M photocopy of the cover, then your book will look absolutely perfect.

 

But it would still have those yellowed interior pages.

 

Now if he scanned the pages, cleaned up the images then he could reprint them on brand new pages that could be inserted in the new cover and it really would look brand new. (thumbs u

[G.A.tor]

[adamstrange]

Well heck, why stop there, Kenny? If the only thing we care about is how perfect it looks without caring how it got that way, why not just take off the old cover altogether and replace it with a NM/M photocopy of the cover, then your book will look absolutely perfect.

 

Sounded to me like he had the work done to preserve the longevity of his book, not just to make it look pretty? Rusty staples aren't going to fix themselves, and if left alone would eventually kill that book.

 

Maybe someday comic collectors will become more accepting of restoration/conservation/preservation, as it seems to be more accepted in other collector circles (paintings, cars, books, furniture, etc.) My personal opinion is that we are in the backlash period caused by many people who suddenly found out that a lot of their books were worked on.

 

 

Don't worry, Tim was just being snarky.

 

But you are correct, the top staple was basically rusted through to the point the prongs were about to fall off so I opted to swap them out with Vintage staples instead of waiting for them to fall off and possilbly damage the centerfold or interior pages.

 

The other work I did was not 100% necessary, and was indeed meant to make the book look better. But seeing that peoples reaction to swapped out staples is not much different then their reaction to slight resto I figured it was a good book for me to hone my cover cleaning and CT skills and make the book look nice.

 

And Carolina, you would be able to tell the staples were swapped. The interior cover and centerfold display rust migration. When you see that next to a clean staples it tells you the staples were either cleaned, or replaced. In the case of this book you could assume due to the amount of migration on the paper it was not possible to just clean them but in fact they were replaced.

 

One of the principles of art conservation is reversability. For example, replacing the rusted staple while the keeping the original one still allows someone at a future point in time to re-insert it in the comic (not that I would advise it). After reinsertion the comic has all it's parts and is only changed because of the strain induced in the staple due to bending it back and forth during the removal and insertion process.

 

However, color touch and wet cleaning of a cover aren't reversible. Once either of those two actions are performed they cannot be undone and that book has no hope of ever being in it's natural state. For the segment of the collecting population who prefer the pre-restored state they will be disappointed to learn that there is one less book out there since most books do end up back in the marketplace.

 

 

 

[Ze-man]

 

One of the principles of art conservation is reversability. For example, replacing the rusted staple while the keeping the original one still allows someone at a future point in time to re-insert it in the comic (not that I would advise it). After reinsertion the comic has all it's parts and is only changed because of the strain induced in the staple due to bending it back and forth during the removal and insertion process.

 

However, color touch and wet cleaning of a cover aren't reversible. Once either of those two actions are performed they cannot be undone and that book has no hope of ever being in it's natural state. For the segment of the collecting population who prefer the pre-restored state they will be disappointed to learn that there is one less book out there since most books do end up back in the marketplace.

 

 

 

 

 

Actually most CT is reversible/removable and while wet cleaning cannot be undone persay it isn't really adding anything to the book and is part of most conservation jobs.

 

I get where you are coming from though, many people would just rather not have it done in the first place,I of course disagree sometimes. And even though restoring the SSS book lowered its value monetarily,it is still a fantastic book. Before I was not able to safely open the book and now I can, and to me that should add value on some level instead of taking away from it.

 

You make it sound like it is no longer a comic book. It is still a comic book, just not one that as many collectors might want.

 

 

 

 

[G.A.tor]

I like pretty comic books

[adamstrange]

 

One of the principles of art conservation is reversability. For example, replacing the rusted staple while the keeping the original one still allows someone at a future point in time to re-insert it in the comic (not that I would advise it). After reinsertion the comic has all it's parts and is only changed because of the strain induced in the staple due to bending it back and forth during the removal and insertion process.

 

However, color touch and wet cleaning of a cover aren't reversible. Once either of those two actions are performed they cannot be undone and that book has no hope of ever being in it's natural state. For the segment of the collecting population who prefer the pre-restored state they will be disappointed to learn that there is one less book out there since most books do end up back in the marketplace.

 

 

 

Actually most CT is reversible/removable and while wet cleaning cannot be undone persay it isn't really adding anything to the book and is part of most conservation jobs.

 

I get where you are coming from though, many people would just rather not have it done in the first place,I of course disagree sometimes. And even though restoring the SSS book lowered its value monetarily,it is still a fantastic book. Before I was not able to safely open the book and now I can, and to me that should add value on some level instead of taking away from it.

 

 

CT is primarily reversible depending on the method used for applying the color. If it's ink and bleeds through it's not coming out without some kind of reasonably objectionable process (from a conservation standpoint). Removal of almost any type of color touch is likely to result in some paper loss or loss of quality to the paper surface.

 

Water based cleaning will likely change the size of the book and will definitely negatively impact the sizing/gloss. Even among collectors who are interested in collecting restored copies there is a considerable minority that does not like the look and feel of cleaned covers. This treatment is not preservation nor conservation though it may make the book look much better.

 

You make it sound like it is no longer a comic book.

 

Not at all. Just thought that the fine art world offered some interesting parallels to the discussion with comics. One of the biggest debates in the art world was the restoration of the Sistine Chapel. The reason for the controversy was that there was no way to restore the ceiling to it's most probable original state without removing layers of a varnish that muted the underlying bright colors of the fresco. Some thought the varnish was part of Michelangelo's original design and argued that it could never be returned to the original state if it was determined that he did originally varnish the ceiling. The varnish was removed and I think they were right to do so but I fully understand the anguish of those scholars that came to a different conclusion.

[sacentaur]

A slab is designed to be better than a bag and board

 

This has not, to my knowledge, been proven. And there are a variety of methods to "bag and board" -- some of which may yield an environment (for better or worse) that is quite similar to a slab.

 

I kind of like the carey technique!

 

Patent Pending @ Greedy SOB Enterprises, Inc.

 

Oh, nice job on that Shock, Ze-man - I'd take your version first (looks better, costs less).

[EastCoastExchange-migratio]

Part of the reason these books survived is that they were in stacks, with the air essentially pressed out of them, away from damaging light, and with the environment around them in which to release the acids generated in the papers.

 

Standing up in a bag, a book has more air between pages to accelerate the chemical processes, with the acids being produced trapped in the bag with the book.

 

A slab is designed to be better than a bag and board, but it suffers from a lot of the same problems.

 

Strangely enough, the fact that we've taken these books out of the environments in which they've lasted 70 years or so and begun to put them in the light, bag them, handle them, et cetera, has accelerated their demise.

 

And especially on books with rusting staples and tape or glue -- leave those alone and the book is toast sooner rather than later.

 

Actually there is no truth to any of this at all if the books are kept in safe storage.

 

CC

[Ze-man]

 

CT is primarily reversible depending on the method used for applying the color. If it's ink and bleeds through it's not coming out without some kind of reasonably objectionable process (from a conservation standpoint). Removal of almost any type of color touch is likely to result in some paper loss or loss of quality to the paper surface.

 

Water based cleaning will likely change the size of the book and will definitely negatively impact the sizing/gloss. Even among collectors who are interested in collecting restored copies there is a considerable minority that does not like the look and feel of cleaned covers. This treatment is not preservation nor conservation though it may make the book look much better.

 

 

Hey Adam, don't mean to keep counter posting, not trying to be all combative on ya..

 

While I agree with you if CT is applied with a marker..forget it. It's set in and unless you cut out the entire area from the cover it will always stay there. But it is possible to remove CT successfully without paper degradation(GA more so then SA) Again it depends on how/what was applied, and where it is on the book.

 

OK, so that was not exactly combative..

 

I do kind of disagree with you on the wet wash though. When a cover is washed you are washing away harmful as well as vital elements of the comic cover. But you should also be re introducing sizing and buffering agents as part of the washing process (which is a good thing)

 

I have seen and felt enough of the types of over washed covers you mentioned.. they can feel threadbare, rough and just plain washed out. But the washing process Matt taught me is designed to make the cover feel as natural as possible after being washed and in many cases breathes new life into an old, long in the toothe cover. Heck, I could send you a few washed covers so you can check them out if you care to.

 

The only problem you mentioned that remains is shrinkage. It can be problematic, but not insurmountable.

 

[EastCoastExchange-migratio]

Well heck, why stop there, Kenny? If the only thing we care about is how perfect it looks without caring how it got that way, why not just take off the old cover altogether and replace it with a NM/M photocopy of the cover, then your book will look absolutely perfect.

 

Sounded to me like he had the work done to preserve the longevity of his book, not just to make it look pretty? Rusty staples aren't going to fix themselves, and if left alone would eventually kill that book.

 

Maybe someday comic collectors will become more accepting of restoration/conservation/preservation, as it seems to be more accepted in other collector circles (paintings, cars, books, furniture, etc.) My personal opinion is that we are in the backlash period caused by many people who suddenly found out that a lot of their books were worked on.

 

 

Don't worry, Tim was just being snarky.

 

But you are correct, the top staple was basically rusted through to the point the prongs were about to fall off so I opted to swap them out with Vintage staples instead of waiting for them to fall off and possilbly damage the centerfold or interior pages.

 

The other work I did was not 100% necessary, and was indeed meant to make the book look better. But seeing that peoples reaction to swapped out staples is not much different then their reaction to slight resto I figured it was a good book for me to hone my cover cleaning and CT skills and make the book look nice.

 

And Carolina, you would be able to tell the staples were swapped. The interior cover and centerfold display rust migration. When you see that next to a clean staples it tells you the staples were either cleaned, or replaced. In the case of this book you could assume due to the amount of migration on the paper it was not possible to just clean them but in fact they were replaced.

 

One of the principles of art conservation is reversability. For example, replacing the rusted staple while the keeping the original one still allows someone at a future point in time to re-insert it in the comic (not that I would advise it). After reinsertion the comic has all it's parts and is only changed because of the strain induced in the staple due to bending it back and forth during the removal and insertion process.

 

 

Even if the original staples are saved, the book is still and will get a green label. I just hate seeing books like this with resto conso whatever you wish to call it that will someday flow into the market, be bought, and come back from CGC purple or green. Because of this I just hate resto. Not just one type but all.