Getting Started as a Dealer

[MR.COMICBOOK]

Just do a show, get on that hamster wheel. End of the show you can pick up long boxes from other struggling vendors at $20 or $25 each. I sat up next to my buddy Orlando at the show just a few days ago at the Tampa show, and you should have seen how he went from from dealer to dealer and managed to buy a few dozen long boxes at soo little money its crazy. So many dealers are so close to poverty level, that if you have 5k in cash in your pocket and a little nerve to make low ball offers, you will come away with tons of profit bearing fruit.

 

It is not a bad thing to pick a niche, I usually do trades, buy at 1/4th or less cover in bulk, sell at 1/2 cover, with some hard to find pieces selling at full cover or a multiple. I did not bring my trades at the last show because clearly I am a doofus, so I looked and felt like every other generic vendor out there.

 

Spoke to a wise beer chugger at the show (Hi Bill) who opened my eyes. I was asking about where one could buy a good wombat, and he cleared the fog in my head. "How large do you think the market is for a pro display rack?" His point is that being a comic dealer is existing in a tiny world, same "co-workers", lots of same product being passed around.

 

If you want to be a comic dealer, thats great, but man, keep it in perspective. It is like staring at a tarnished penny when you are standing in a beautiful park on a sunny day. There are better ways to spend you time and energy. And once you are on the hamster wheel with both feet, you get stuck on it, stuck to the wheel.

Kinda like when I went to comic cons in the late 1980`s, everybody had stacks of Uncanny X-Men 100 to 143 and all the latest Marvels, no one stood out. all the same.

[goldust40]

If you want to be a comic dealer, thats great, but man, keep it in perspective. It is like staring at a tarnished penny when you are standing in a beautiful park on a sunny day. There are better ways to spend you time and energy. And once you are on the hamster wheel with both feet, you get stuck on it, stuck to the wheel.

 

Now that's sig line material. Apart from the fact that dealing becomes addictive, the moment you start putting time and effort into it, you quickly develop tunnel vision. And before you know it you've been on the circuit for 15 years wondering where the time has gone.

[MCMiles]

I sat up next to my buddy Orlando at the show just a few days ago at the Tampa show, and you should have seen how he went from from dealer to dealer and managed to buy a few dozen long boxes at soo little money its crazy.

 

 

Well, I wish he had come by my table. I had six boxes I didn't want to take home.

[Pirate]

I used to do a flea market circuit in NC selling beanie babies when I was in college. I did well as I would call 15-20 stores a day asking if they got in new product. I made good money back in those days but when I think back on all the work, I was better off with just a part time job instead of the 4am mornings.

 

I have no desire to setup at comic shows even though I do the signature series as it's supposed to be fun. While I like getting signatures in the hands of friends and collectors, overall it's feels like work instead of fun sometimes.

[conditionfreak]

I was listening to a radio talk show host named Michael Savage just the other day.

 

He said that when he was just a young man, his father told him to make people think that they are getting a good deal and you will make money. So, he rounded up all of the free comic books he could get his hands on (and according to him, there were plenty) and crossed out the 10 cent cover price and wrote 5 cents on the books and sold them. He said that he sold each and every book he tried to sell. His inventory was basically free and a nickel was something to a young man back then.

 

So. I guess my point is, whatever you decide to do, sell LESS than the book is actually worth and you will move them.

 

There is a guy in the For Sale section on this forum, in Georgia, trying to sell A LOT of comics for a decent price but you have to pick them up in person. If you are serious, it would probably get you started, but I wouldn't do it. I tried it twenty years ago and it ain't worth it (unless you love it). A "regular" job is better. Benefits and such.

 

As a side note. I wonder if anyone like Mr. Savage, ever runs across a comic that they had as a child (you know, with their "cross out" or name scribbled on the front cover), and buys it? That would be an interesting subject to discuss. A couple of times, I listed comics on Ebay that had names scribbled on them (and one time I listed a MMMS set with the original envelope) and offered them at auction with the notation that if the original owner (person who's name was on the comic or on the envelope) wanted them for free, they could have them. No one ever claimed any of them.

 

Good luck.

[the blob]

heck, most of the people on these boards are dealers or junior dealers.

 

many of them have a better back issue selection than 90% of the shops out there.

 

true, if you're routinely selling for less (including overhead) than what you've paid, i guess you're not being much of a dealer (of course, comic shops do that all the time when they stick their overstock -- bought for $1.50-$2.50 each, into their 50 cent or $1 box).

 

picking up long boxes for cheap is fine if it's stuff you can sell, but honestly, there are deals out there...here, on ebay, at shows. as others have noted, i have seen harley yee go into one dealers boxes grab a box worth of stuff, pay for it, not necessarily even haggle down the price, not even necessarily before the start of the show, then go back with his table and have the stuff priced up at 5-15X what he paid. you don't have to sell much to make your money back --- not that i think his is a model many can emulate...you need a reputation and an eye for what to grab. he was on to those 100 page DC giants and other oversize 1970's DC issues in HG before others cared about them and probably made a killing buying them for nothing. not to mention mile high chuck doing the same thing in larger quantities.

 

making a living at this is a brute unless making $15K is your idea of making a living. the way i see it, you need to sell a decent number of "big" books to have a shot at a decent income and to get those Big books you need cash and nowadays it is hard to get over on people who might be selling books like that. you can't do it spending $200 a week building up your inventory...that's the way to get yourself stocked with $5-$15 books. but it takes a lot of working making money selling those books. it's a nice way to flesh things out and the margins can be good if you don't overpay.. but selling some book you paid $400 for for $700 in a relatively short period of time is the way to make your day or week. sure, in olden times many a dealer tried to pay $20 for that $700 book (or in the case of my friend who owned an LCS, $1 or $2 for the $700 book), but by and large, those days are over (not to say you never have someone who is clueless, but the internet makes it too easy for people to gauge the value of things)

 

i guess one exception to the $20 into $700 scenario is if you're a frigging master at spotting raw 9.8s

[Topnotchman]

Forgive me if this is obvious, but I've always been curious how dealers get started. How much startup capital is required? Do they start with stores first or just travel doing conventions? Where do all those books come from? And finally, what books would you need to have now to be successful?

 

Is there a formula or is a lot of it luck?

 

Would appreciate from hearing back from people that have traveled this path with some success. Unless of course answering it would be bad for business or something, in which case I can understand that too.

 

Your asking too many questions for one thread. If you narrow this down to whats the best way to get started with an internet comic business, convention comic business, or storefront comic store business. I would chime in if I understood your longterm goals.

[aardvark88]

I would stay far away from starting a comic book business even though I LOVE comics. I sold paper collectibles at local comicons and Sunday fleamarkets for 13 years (started at age 18) then switched to eBay.

 

The world is in a recession and a lot of good paying union jobs will be CHOPPED around Dec/08 by GM and/or Chrysler and their supply chain in both USA and Canada.

 

Name 3 recession resistant items (outside of basic food) that u "must" have even when you get layed off:

 

1. personal cleaning products (e.g. soap, shampoo)

2. basic entertainment (e.g. t.v.)

3. communication (e.g. cell phones, high speed internet)

 

Build a downline that markets these types of products to your community from your home.

 

 

[sckao]

 

I wrote this earlier in regards to setting up at Comic Shows...

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2666694#Post2666694

 

I think having a good convention from a dealer perspective is really about how well you do relative to your amount of time/energy you put into your inventory and booth and how much the table/overhead costs are.

 

If you really want to simplify it, it should come down to X times table costs.

 

I.E. A "good" convention could be when you sell 10x your table costs. So if the table cost was $50, if you sell over $500, you probably did okay. (Assuming the difference in the cost of your comics vs your selling price is decent. If you bought at 30% of guide and sold at 60% of guide, you double your money.)

 

So even if you did $500 gross. The cost was $250 for the comics. Sales tax = $40. That leaves $210 in profit minus table costs and transportation costs. (Say $50 for the table and $25 in gas.)

 

That's $135 in profit.

 

That's not even counting the hours spent grading and pricing. Costs on supplies (bags, boards, tape, signs, etc.) Or Lunch/food. (We're not counting lodging since we're talking about a small local convention.)

 

For a 6-8 hour small convention, you're actually working 10-12 hours driving to and from the con, setting up and tearing down.

 

So without counting grading/pricing/supplies, You're making maybe $11 an hour max. (Probably far less when you factor in the other hours and costs. Much less than minimum wage.)

 

 

Ultimately, this is why it's a hobby for most of us.

 

 

 

[MrBedrock]

Is there a formula or is a lot of it luck?

 

The formula I use is simple...

You can't go broke making a profit.

[MrBedrock]

A "regular" job is better. Benefits and such.

 

Retail, on any level - flea market to convention seller to mail order dealer to big box store, is a "regular job".

If you set your business up correctly you can have all the benefits you desire.

 

(Sorry,but it bugs me a little that our corner of the retail world is not taken seriously. And if we don't take it seriously then certainly no one else will.)

[MrBedrock]

making a living at this is a brute unless making $15K is your idea of making a living.

There are quite a few dealers on the convention circuit that fart and 15K comes out. Talk to the guy who sets up all those t-shirt booths at the Wizard shows. That guy makes some serious dough!

It is a tough way to make a living, but if done right it can be a profitable and comfortable living too.

[Shark]

heck, most of the people on these boards are dealers or junior dealers.

 

Many of them have a better back issue selection than 90% of the shops out there.

 

Making a living at this is a brute unless making $15K is your idea of making a living. the way i see it, you need to sell a decent number of "big" books to have a shot at a decent income and to get those Big books you need cash and nowadays it is hard to get over on people who might be selling books like that. you can't do it spending $200 a week building up your inventory...that's the way to get yourself stocked with $5-$15 books. but it takes a lot of working making money selling those books.

 

Blob is making a lot of sense here Rob. I'm one of those people that has comics coming out of the woodwork (about 40,000 to 45,000 stored in 2 spare bedrooms) and have a wide variety. Even though that's true and I'm going to be in the same boat as you in a few months (job going away) I still can't see me making a living selling comic books full-time. It's a hell of a lot of work for little financial gain (just try selling raws here on the boards - you'll see what I mean).

 

I started my own "Day job's going away - what should I do" thread about a month ago and most people polled said "stick with what you know best". Not that I take the advice of everyone I listen to but they're probably right.

 

I was talking with John Hauser a couple of weeks ago at the Rockford comic-con and found out then that he does this full-time. Would I love to do it for a living? Damn right! I can work on comics all day long (which is what I've done today) and to me it's not work. I enjoy it so much that nothing involving comics bores me to the extent that I want to quit. But reality sets in and I know I still need that full-time day job to pay the bills and to have the all-important health insurance.

 

Shark

[aardvark88]

Comic book related items seem to sell really well. Didn't USPS sell well over $100k worth of DC postage stamps, 1st day envelopes, and framed prints at SDCC a couple of years ago?

[gcstomp]

A good formula is work like hell, and be careful on the buy side.

 

Create your own luck by knowing what the heck you are doing, and what you can sell something for before you buy it.

 

And have fun, tell yourself that loading/unloading the 2000 pounds of boxes from your cargo van to the show floor while its raining is a barrel full of monkeys. When the tire on your overloaded handtruck falls off while you are attempting said load in, consider it an opportunity to Macgyver a solution on the fly.

 

When the happy hands attempt to make a grab at your books during the busy hours of the show, revel in the challenge of keeping your merchandise secure. Imagine it is like that wack a mole game at the carnival. $1 boxes are good income producers, but rest assured your first sale will be $2 in books paid for with a $100 bill. Also, books you drag around on the show circuit will show wear as browsing customers will bend, squeeze, push, pull, and generally mangle hundreds of books per show.

 

 

[thirdgreenham]

There are quite a few dealers on the convention circuit that fart and 15K comes out.

 

[the blob]

There are quite a few dealers on the convention circuit that fart and 15K comes out. Talk to the guy who sets up all those t-shirt booths at the Wizard shows. That guy makes some serious dough!

It is a tough way to make a living, but if done right it can be a profitable and comfortable living too.

*********************************************

selling t-shirts isn't selling comics.

 

doesn't sound like rob has spent 30 years building up a massive inventory of good stuff paid for at 1970's prices either.

 

those who have survived to this point who have been doing this a while have the inventory, the credit lines, customers, etc.

 

clearing $15K of profit probably means making $30K+++ in sales. unless you regularly sell some triple digit books (or at least almost triple), it's hard to get there.

 

that's alls I'm saying. scoring those bigger books at the right price isn't impossible, it's just a lot of work and you need to have cash. heck, find someone who seriously undergrades, buy their "Fines" at half guide price and if they're genuinely VFs, take a shot at 50-75% of guide on them! good luck finding those books though... but when you do it's sweet!

 

shark -- if you have 40K+ books, assuming 30K+ of it isn't 90's drek..there's really no reason you can't make a full time job of it depending on what you need your monthly nut to be. if you need to make $100K to pay your bills, maybe not so good, but if you need $40K....

 

[HouseofComics.Com]

doesn't sound like rob has spent 30 years building up a massive inventory of good stuff paid for at 1970's prices either.

 

those who have survived to this point who have been doing this a while have the inventory, the credit lines, customers, etc.

 

Indeed. At the last show I did, Terry O'Neill told me that he'd hate to be starting over today. Meaning that he feels it was easier in the old days and that it's hard to break into the top ten or top twenty today without a lot of money behind you. You start way behind in terms of inventory, client base, etc.

 

We get some threads like this every year. Why? Because there's really no barrier to entry? Get a reseller's license, rent a table, start an ebay store, whatever. But that's why it's tough, there are a million people trying to sell comics and the majority of them are like the majority of dealers at the small shows, they have such a sunk cost into the books that they will sell for almost any cash.

[sckao]

 

Selling as a retailer with brick and mortar stores vs a dealer on the convention/mail order/Internet sales circuit seems to be radically different in terms of economic models.

 

The Retailer seems to get most of their income from the sale of new comic books and trade paperbacks (as well as ancillary products such as figures, statues, card games, heroclix, supplies, etc.) They also have fixed overhead costs and possibly employees.

 

Retailers that do conventions seem to do so as a way of boosting their core business. It doesn't seem to be their main revenue stream.

 

The Convention Dealer (at least the comic book ones like Harley), deal only with comics. They also have fixed overhead costs associated with traveling and inventory turn-over. I don't know how much of their business is through their website or via mail order catalog... but for many, I'm assuming the convention circuit (both large cons and smaller regional cons) are their main source of income.

 

 

 

 

[moonlite]

Selling as a retailer with brick and mortar stores vs a dealer on the convention/mail order/Internet sales circuit seems to be radically different in terms of economic models.

 

The Retailer seems to get most of their income from the sale of new comic books and trade paperbacks (as well as ancillary products such as figures, statues, card games, heroclix, supplies, etc.) They also have fixed overhead costs and possibly employees.

 

 

Right Shin, I have stated this before that dealers I know and hear from state that no more than 5-10% (and as high as 10 is usually very infrequent) of their revenue is derived from back issue boxes.