TTA 59 9.6 sells for 10K

[kc120us]

Maybe we as collectors and hobbyists have become to smart for our own good. I mean Bill has a point, at 10k you can find a Batman #1 where even non-hobbyists would say WOW. Now we are paying 10k for 2nd tier keys, because the label says 9.6. If that book gets dropped, chances are it is no longer a 9.6 book but a 9.4 (or lower, in actual condition) that still sits in a 9.6 holder. If ever sold, the buyer is paying a premium for the label and not the actual book and here is where the problem lies. Very few books in comicdom are truly rare, so to set our collections apart from others we are paying sometimes stupid premiums for 9.6 and 9.8 books. We've done this to ourselves and I'm just as gulity as the next person. We need to find a way to correct it, as things are getting out of hand rather quickly. BTW it is a beautiful book, and I certainly appreciate it's historical importance.

 

Jim

 

Another thing to consider when looking at these prices is the fact that, while these are not top tier keys, they may represent final pieces of HG runs. And I for one can attest to the frenzy that can develop when you are trying to finish a run. Hell I paid a few hundred dollars for a copper x-men in 9.8 becuase it was the last in my run and it was hard to find in that grade. Is that book worth that much money? No! To me? Hell yeah!! Remember folks, we are dealing with the habit of collecting. Throw logic out the window.

[COI]

We all \ at the prices the HG AF #15's command. Can you imagine what it would command if there was say only one 9.4, one 8.0 and a few at or below 5.0? I dare say it would outstrip any action #1 or tec 27.

 

Or, is it the abundance of these SA books that makes them so popular?

 

I think the abundance plays a role. Many people are more heavily invested in this hobby than they care to admit. Either that, or 3/4 of the members of this board are multi- millionaires. So in order for people to justify the amount of $ they put into their collections, they tell themselves that they can always sell if they need to, and that's where the liquidity of SA Marvels becomes so appealing.

 

 

[DrWatson]

Maybe we as collectors and hobbyists have become to smart for our own good. I mean Bill has a point, at 10k you can find a Batman #1 where even non-hobbyists would say WOW. Now we are paying 10k for 2nd tier keys, because the label says 9.6. If that book gets dropped, chances are it is no longer a 9.6 book but a 9.4 (or lower, in actual condition) that still sits in a 9.6 holder. If ever sold, the buyer is paying a premium for the label and not the actual book and here is where the problem lies. Very few books in comicdom are truly rare, so to set our collections apart from others we are paying sometimes stupid premiums for 9.6 and 9.8 books. We've done this to ourselves and I'm just as gulity as the next person. We need to find a way to correct it, as things are getting out of hand rather quickly. BTW it is a beautiful book, and I certainly appreciate it's historical importance.

 

Jim

 

Another thing to consider when looking at these prices is the fact that, while these are not top tier keys, they may represent final pieces of HG runs. And I for one can attest to the frenzy that can develop when you are trying to finish a run. Hell I paid a few hundred dollars for a copper x-men in 9.8 becuase it was the last in my run and it was hard to find in that grade. Is that book worth that much money? No! To me? Hell yeah!! Remember folks, we are dealing with the habit of collecting. Throw logic out the window.

I prefer to reassess my collecting goals so that my dollars and logic can coexist.

[nik]

There is no logic when it comes to buying funny books.

[Aman619]

Here is an interesting thought. We all admit that SA books are far more readily available in most grades than GA books.That is not in dispute and very easily quantifiable. What is not so easily meausred is the demand for these SA books. That is the main ingredient for these crazy prices. We all at the prices the HG AF #15's command. Can you imagine what it would command if there was say only one 9.4, one 8.0 and a few at or below 5.0? I dare say it would outstrip any action #1 or tec 27.

 

Or, is it the abundance of these SA books that makes them so popular?

 

Thoughts?

 

actually, its the manageable supply of these books that fuels the higher and higher prices. If there were only one 9.4 AF15 it would have changed hands ONCE in the past 8 years and still be in that collection of whoever snagged the first graded copy. (which copy was it anyway?) At this point we'd all just be left to GUESS its value with no market place data to go on.

 

As long as there are a handful of copies of the keys to move around, prices will be able to escalate regularly... assuming the demand remains.

[DrWatson]

There is no logic when it comes to buying funny books.

Well, not if you're Greek.

[greggy]

There is no logic when it comes to buying funny books.

[COI]

Maybe we as collectors and hobbyists have become to smart for our own good. I mean Bill has a point, at 10k you can find a Batman #1 where even non-hobbyists would say WOW. Now we are paying 10k for 2nd tier keys, because the label says 9.6. If that book gets dropped, chances are it is no longer a 9.6 book but a 9.4 (or lower, in actual condition) that still sits in a 9.6 holder. If ever sold, the buyer is paying a premium for the label and not the actual book and here is where the problem lies. Very few books in comicdom are truly rare, so to set our collections apart from others we are paying sometimes stupid premiums for 9.6 and 9.8 books. We've done this to ourselves and I'm just as gulity as the next person. We need to find a way to correct it, as things are getting out of hand rather quickly. BTW it is a beautiful book, and I certainly appreciate it's historical importance.

 

Jim

 

Another thing to consider when looking at these prices is the fact that, while these are not top tier keys, they may represent final pieces of HG runs. And I for one can attest to the frenzy that can develop when you are trying to finish a run. Hell I paid a few hundred dollars for a copper x-men in 9.8 becuase it was the last in my run and it was hard to find in that grade. Is that book worth that much money? No! To me? Hell yeah!! Remember folks, we are dealing with the habit of collecting. Throw logic out the window.

I prefer to reassess my collecting goals so that my dollars and logic can coexist.

 

I agree, which is why I stopped collecting. I couldn't make it work.

 

The hobbies I enjoy the most are the ones where I spend knowing I'll never see the money again. When money is involved, it becomes a business for me, and that takes away from my enjoyment.

 

 

[nik]

There is no logic when it comes to buying funny books.

Well, not if you're Greek.

 

 

Some think the person who dropped 10k on the book is foolish. I think anyone that drops more then cover price on a book is foolish

[tth2]

Why not? Because that spread keeps getting higher and higher and higher. How high can it go before it drops like a lead balloon?

 

Certainly history is on the side of spreads continuing to rise, but it can't last forever can it?

No, of course not. But I would say that the increasing spread that you've noted simply shows that the data in previous years greatly underestimated the ratio, and as more data has come into the market (internet, CGC Census, new finds brought to market, etc.), prices and spreads have adjusted accordingly. This has caused it to appear as if the spread-widening was accelerating, but I would argue that part of it was just correcting an incorrect narrowness from a period of insufficient data, and part of it is indeed people ascribing a higher valuation for the top end books.

 

I should add that the widening of the spread has happened from both ends, with prices for the highest grade copies going up and prices for the lower grade copies not moving at all or decreasing. People talk about Overstreet getting it wrong on the top end prices, but it's actually much more wrong on the lower end prices. How many mid- and late-1960s SA Marvels in VF or below go for anything near Guide?

[tth2]

If ever sold, the buyer is paying a premium for the label and not the actual book and here is where the problem lies. Very few books in comicdom are truly rare, so to set our collections apart from others we are paying sometimes stupid premiums for 9.6 and 9.8 books. We've done this to ourselves and I'm just as gulity as the next person. We need to find a way to correct it, as things are getting out of hand rather quickly.

 

I agree with you. The solution is to collect for the love of collecting and not the social status your collection earns you within the community.

 

Andrew, your statement is such an incredible disservice to high grade collectors. I would argue that many high grade collectors rank at the top of the scale when it comes to "love of collecting".

 

But don't take my word for it, let's break out the different factors:

 

1. Knowledge about the hobby: many of the most knowledgeable collectors in the hobby are high grade collectors. The fact is you'd better know your stuff if you're going to spend so much money on your hobby, and it's hard to find good books if you don't know anything.

 

2. Thrill of the chase: some non-high grade collectors collect non-high grade because they don't care about grade, but many non-high grade collectors collect non-high grade because they can't afford or don't want to spend so much on high grade copies. On the other hand, most high-grade collectors can easily afford complete runs of the titles they collect if grade is no object, but instead they value the thrill of the chase and set artificial barriers in terms of grade in order to create a challenge for themselves. I would therefore say they're the truer collectors.

 

3. Love of comics: this kind of overlaps with knowledge about the hobby, but in addition to that I would point to the fact that many high grade collectors have been in for the long haul, because it's tough to assemble a really nice collection in just a short burst, even if you have money; look at many of the big-name high grade collectors, they've been doing this for decades. You don't behave this way for such a long period of time if you don't really love the things you're collecting, because then you'll just as likely move on to collecting something else.

 

4. Desire for social status: are high-grade collectors really that into social status? I don't think they are. If that was the case, why aren't the very top collectors participating in the Registry, posting their books on these boards and regularly trotting them out at conventions? Before they joined these boards, how many of the people on these boards knew who Brulato, Schmell, Verzyl, Anderson and Geppi were? I don't know about the threads where people post mostly Marvels, but in the 3 main "show your book" threads that I participate in, I would say the number of non-high grade books that are shown greatly outnumbers the high grade books. If anything, I would say the non-high grade collectors seem more into showing off their books than the high grade collectors.

[Monstro]

There is no logic when it comes to buying funny books.

 

i smell a custom title

[brasseye]

If ever sold, the buyer is paying a premium for the label and not the actual book and here is where the problem lies. Very few books in comicdom are truly rare, so to set our collections apart from others we are paying sometimes stupid premiums for 9.6 and 9.8 books. We've done this to ourselves and I'm just as gulity as the next person. We need to find a way to correct it, as things are getting out of hand rather quickly.

 

I agree with you. The solution is to collect for the love of collecting and not the social status your collection earns you within the community.

 

Andrew, your statement is such an incredible disservice to high grade collectors. I would argue that many high grade collectors rank at the top of the scale when it comes to "love of collecting".

 

But don't take my word for it, let's break out the different factors:

 

1. Knowledge about the hobby: many of the most knowledgeable collectors in the hobby are high grade collectors. The fact is you'd better know your stuff if you're going to spend so much money on your hobby, and it's hard to find good books if you don't know anything.

 

2. Thrill of the chase: some non-high grade collectors collect non-high grade because they don't care about grade, but many non-high grade collectors collect non-high grade because they can't afford or don't want to spend so much on high grade copies. On the other hand, most high-grade collectors can easily afford complete runs of the titles they collect if grade is no object, but instead they value the thrill of the chase and set artificial barriers in terms of grade in order to create a challenge for themselves. I would therefore say they're the truer collectors.

 

3. Love of comics: this kind of overlaps with knowledge about the hobby, but in addition to that I would point to the fact that many high grade collectors have been in for the long haul, because it's tough to assemble a really nice collection in just a short burst, even if you have money; look at many of the big-name high grade collectors, they've been doing this for decades. You don't behave this way for such a long period of time if you don't really love the things you're collecting, because then you'll just as likely move on to collecting something else.

 

4. Desire for social status: are high-grade collectors really that into social status? I don't think they are. If that was the case, why aren't the very top collectors participating in the Registry, posting their books on these boards and regularly trotting them out at conventions? Before they joined these boards, how many of the people on these boards knew who Brulato, Schmell, Verzyl, Anderson and Geppi were? I don't know about the threads where people post mostly Marvels, but in the 3 main "show your book" threads that I participate in, I would say the number of non-high grade books that are shown greatly outnumbers the high grade books. If anything, I would say the non-high grade collectors seem more into showing off their books than the high grade collectors.

 

:golfclap:

 

[brasseye]

 

 

44 years...and still counting....ya rib on it, keep going.

 

Some 'wow', 'fantastic' GA book...that 99.99% of us has never seen other than a musty scan, if i can stop yawning enough to type.... I might have something to say here.

 

 

44 years? Am I supposed to be impressed by that?

 

I like SA. Used to collect SA. I just don't believe somebody paid 10K for that particular book. I didn't start bagging on SA. I just thought it hypocritical of you to slam GA b/c some people didn't hold this book in as high esteem as you do.

 

As for you having something to say. Hopefully what you say next will be worthwhile.

 

Read from the start. GA boys ripped on this SA book, I just returned fire in kind....or alternatively put, held a mirror up to their lovely contributions.

 

I thought the subtext was pretty clear

 

 

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Cool trend.

 

GA to SA guy: GA are so much more important.

 

SA to BA guy: BA is Ok.. But SA is better.

 

SA and BA guys to CA guy: You collect what?!? Hahaha

 

CA guy to MA guy. Oh you collect that, yea me too. I just stopped buying all the variants. Those things are a waste.

 

MA guy.. But I like the variant covers.

 

 

I just collect C- All of the above.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

While I believe the amount of money realised for this book is very high, I do not think it is worth it. But at the same time I would take my 10K or more and buy a restored Batman 1 and the guy who bought the TTA would not think my investment was worthwhile.

 

At the end of the day, everyone collects what they like.I appreciate the Superhero genre in its whole from GA- MA. So that dude is probably LOVING that TTA, and for 10K he deserves to.

[awe4one]

Maybe we as collectors and hobbyists have become to smart for our own good. I mean Bill has a point, at 10k you can find a Batman #1 where even non-hobbyists would say WOW. Now we are paying 10k for 2nd tier keys, because the label says 9.6. If that book gets dropped, chances are it is no longer a 9.6 book but a 9.4 (or lower, in actual condition) that still sits in a 9.6 holder. If ever sold, the buyer is paying a premium for the label and not the actual book and here is where the problem lies. Very few books in comicdom are truly rare, so to set our collections apart from others we are paying sometimes stupid premiums for 9.6 and 9.8 books. We've done this to ourselves and I'm just as gulity as the next person. We need to find a way to correct it, as things are getting out of hand rather quickly. BTW it is a beautiful book, and I certainly appreciate it's historical importance.

 

A very applicable comment.

 

Collectors need to question why they are, in this case and in general, vastly overpaying to "set their collection apart". Is this a contest? Do they need the attention? Why are they collecting comics at all? In the whole scheme of things, having the best comic, or collection, around doesn't mean much...and is impressive to a very narrow audience who really don't have any bearing on your normal life.

 

If you're balancing your self-esteem on comics, then be ready when reality smacks you down hard for some foolish and expensive choices...

 

Jim

[DrWatson]

Maybe we as collectors and hobbyists have become to smart for our own good. I mean Bill has a point, at 10k you can find a Batman #1 where even non-hobbyists would say WOW. Now we are paying 10k for 2nd tier keys, because the label says 9.6. If that book gets dropped, chances are it is no longer a 9.6 book but a 9.4 (or lower, in actual condition) that still sits in a 9.6 holder. If ever sold, the buyer is paying a premium for the label and not the actual book and here is where the problem lies. Very few books in comicdom are truly rare, so to set our collections apart from others we are paying sometimes stupid premiums for 9.6 and 9.8 books. We've done this to ourselves and I'm just as gulity as the next person. We need to find a way to correct it, as things are getting out of hand rather quickly. BTW it is a beautiful book, and I certainly appreciate it's historical importance.

 

A very applicable comment.

 

Collectors need to question why they are, in this case and in general, vastly overpaying to "set their collection apart". Is this a contest? Do they need the attention? Why are they collecting comics at all? In the whole scheme of things, having the best comic, or collection, around doesn't mean much...and is impressive to a very narrow audience who really don't have any bearing on your normal life.

 

If you're balancing your self-esteem on comics, then be ready when reality smacks you down hard for some foolish and expensive choices...

 

Jim

For once, you and I agree.

 

Can someone please check and see if hell has frozen over?

 

BTW... After seeing the top ten list, I have a new appreciation for Olivia Munn.

 

Jim

[awe4one]

BTW... After seeing the top ten list, I have a new appreciation for Olivia Munn.

 

Well...you are usually slow on the uptake...being from Tennessee and all...

 

Jim

[tth2]

Collectors need to question why they are, in this case and in general, vastly overpaying to "set their collection apart". Is this a contest? Do they need the attention? Why are they collecting comics at all? In the whole scheme of things, having the best comic, or collection, around doesn't mean much...and is impressive to a very narrow audience who really don't have any bearing on your normal life.

 

If you're balancing your self-esteem on comics, then be ready when reality smacks you down hard for some foolish and expensive choices...

 

Jim

Read my post above, Jim. Why must the assumption be that anyone who wants to have a top collection wants attention? The evidence seems to be that most of the top collectors are actually lower profile than the average collector. Similarly, what`s with this myth that collectors of top books must have fragile self- esteem? So you think Dave Anderson`s going to have a nervous breakdown if a better copy of Action 1 emerges? And why this belief that wanting a top collection isn`t a genuine reason for collecting? Why the hell not? Because that`s not what YOU value in collecting?

 

How about the person just wants to own really nice looking copies, because they`re tough to find? How about the person could have a complete run of TTA in krapola grade in no time at all, so would derive no enjoyment from doing that? How about the person isn`t in the same economic circumstances as yourself, so dropping $10K on a book isn`t something that`s going to make or break him, even if the value of the book dropped to zero tomorrow? You have a lot of qualities, Jim, but the ability to see the world from other people`s eyes is not one of them.