TMNT #1 Club 19 19

[Gump24601]

 

 

What is exceptionally cool about this picture is knowing that my copy is in that picture, somewhere.

 

 

Haha, I thought the exact same thing! Always brings a smile to my face thinking that I own a small piece of history sitting right there.

[Icculus308win]

Yepper

[Michelangelo]

 

No I think the original print run of 3275 is accurate. To me it does look like there are just too many available for such a small print run but that doesn't mean I don't want one. I just don't want to buy a fake.Knowing what happened to those 3275 copies should be interesting to anyone interested in a TMNT 1, no?

 

Some seller have made claims. Most of them are made up I am sure but I was hoping that there would be something recorded somewhere about the run that we do know. Most importantly, if X number of copies were set aside and they were all signed in the same way before they were sold then that is the copy I want.

 

OK, here's the list of factual information you're looking for. Consider it "recorded somewhere."

• The 3,275 copy print run is accurate...confirmed and documented by Peter Laird himself.
  
• No claims to the contrary by any other person not directly associated with TMNT #1 (i.e., anyone other than Kevin or Peter) should be considered valid.
  
• No copies were set aside, designated for special use, or were even signed in a specific way for a specific purpose or promotion (although Kevin and Peter did give away some copies to friends, family, etc.) which likely had personal messages or signatures. Those copies are VERY RARELY ever sold due to their sentimental and/or collectible value.
  
• Kevin and Peter never thought they'd sell all of the copies they had printed. They used the boxes that they came in for furniture in their house.
  
• And finally, this picture alone is what I would say is proof of the print run being limited as has been well-documented and not artificially understated / low for the purpose of creating rarity. While it's hard to know how many copies are in each box, there are probably between 300-400 copies in each box (just for portability and weight). Get more pictures and info. here.
  

 

 

WOW what an incredible picture.

 

.... and I'm thinking.... are the comics taped to the boxes part of the 3275 count??

 

I'd still take 'em

[rich_TMNT]

I actually think the boxes have a cutout in them that shows the books inside. I never thought they were attached to the boxes...but I suppose they could be. Regardless of being taped or otherwise, many of the boxes appear to have the end issue's inner pages coming out. Those definitely aren't the 9.8 copies.

[GM8]

I actually think the boxes have a cutout in them that shows the books inside. I never thought they were attached to the boxes...but I suppose they could be. Regardless of being taped or otherwise, many of the boxes appear to have the end issue's inner pages coming out. Those definitely aren't the 9.8 copies.

 

Those are definitely taped to the outside...you can see the tape on the top box. Probably some damage to those, huh?

 

Nevertheless, it is a great photo for historical purposes. Who knew those boxes stacked into a corner would be worth literally millions?

[Bronty]

Yeah I was doing the math on that earlier. 3275 copies @ 3k average is 10m. At 5k avg is over 16m

[Bronty]

I bet those taped copies were free to them. So maybe the print run is actually 3282

[RockMyAmadeus]

Yeah I was doing the math on that earlier. 3275 copies @ 3k average is 10m. At 5k avg is over 16m

 

If all copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. If many copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. And that's assuming all these copies even exist, much less could be sold for an average of $3,000.

 

It's fun to speculate that the boxes would be "worth millions", but it's not realistic. If all 3275 (or thereabouts) copies came on the market at the same time, they may not even be worth $1,000,000. For the boxes to be worth millions, you'd have to have buyers willing to pay millions for them.

 

But that's something we will never know.

[GM8]

Yeah I was doing the math on that earlier. 3275 copies @ 3k average is 10m. At 5k avg is over 16m

 

If all copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. If many copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. And that's assuming all these copies even exist, much less could be sold for an average of $3,000.

 

It's fun to speculate that the boxes would be "worth millions", but it's not realistic. If all 3275 (or thereabouts) copies came on the market at the same time, they may not even be worth $1,000,000. For the boxes to be worth millions, you'd have to have buyers willing to pay millions for them.

 

But that's something we will never know.

 

Sorry to throw sunshine on your rainy parade but all 3275 copies would never come to the market at once. There is/was no comic "black monday" when everyone wanted to sell at the same moment in time. The comic book market isn't that efficient.

 

It's no speculation. There are millions of dollars in that picture.

[Ryan.]

There is/was no comic "black monday" when everyone wanted to sell at the same moment in time.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Yeah I was doing the math on that earlier. 3275 copies @ 3k average is 10m. At 5k avg is over 16m

 

If all copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. If many copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. And that's assuming all these copies even exist, much less could be sold for an average of $3,000.

 

It's fun to speculate that the boxes would be "worth millions", but it's not realistic. If all 3275 (or thereabouts) copies came on the market at the same time, they may not even be worth $1,000,000. For the boxes to be worth millions, you'd have to have buyers willing to pay millions for them.

 

But that's something we will never know.

 

Sorry to throw sunshine on your rainy parade but all 3275 copies would never come to the market at once.

 

That is correct, as I already stated here:

 

But that's something we will never know

 

In case I wasn't clear, that's what "that's something we will never know" means: not only will all those copies not come to market at once, not even all of those copies exist anymore.

 

There is/was no comic "black monday" when everyone wanted to sell at the same moment in time. The comic book market isn't that efficient.

 

Correct. That's what makes it speculation.

 

Even in "black Monday", there were still buyers....not *everyone* sold.

 

It's no speculation. There are millions of dollars in that picture.

 

No, there is potential, and speculation. There aren't millions of dollars in that picture. There's only potential, and that potential isn't likely even in the nearly impossible scenario of all extant copies coming to the market at once.

 

It's nothing but speculation. The market for TMNT #1 is so thin, even 100 copies coming on to the market at the same time would substantively affect the value of the book.

 

No rain. Just facts.

[jaybuck43]

Yeah I was doing the math on that earlier. 3275 copies @ 3k average is 10m. At 5k avg is over 16m

 

If all copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. If many copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. And that's assuming all these copies even exist, much less could be sold for an average of $3,000.

 

It's fun to speculate that the boxes would be "worth millions", but it's not realistic. If all 3275 (or thereabouts) copies came on the market at the same time, they may not even be worth $1,000,000. For the boxes to be worth millions, you'd have to have buyers willing to pay millions for them.

 

But that's something we will never know.

 

I've gotta speculate that it is absolutely true that those boxes are worth $1,000,000. Even if every book hit the market at the same time today, you would need a pool of 3,275 individuals willing to pay $300 per copy. Given the popularity of the turtles, I would be shocked if you could not find 3,275 people willing to pay $300 per copy.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Just for fun, I went and counted all sales of TMNT #1 1st print recorded on GPA.

 

There are:

 

9.0 and above - 155

 

8.5 and lower - 235

 

That's total sales, from 2002-2015.

 

That doesn't account for resales of the same slab. That's just raw "sales events" as recorded by GPA. This doesn't include sales on ComicConnect or ComicLink, but I imagine those sales are low enough numbers to not skew the data too much.

 

This also doesn't account for raw sales, which have is not an insubstantial figure, but cannot be known, so we'll have to set that number aside for now.

 

That means, in nearly 14 years, there have been a total of 390 different sales events for this book slabbed...or a little more than 10% of the original print run.

 

And, again, that doesn't account for resales of the same slab, or the same book submitted different times. When considering the raw copies vs. resales/resubmissions, it's possible it's a wash.

 

That's roughly 30 copies on average, of various flavors, for sale every year.

 

There were 60 sales of various flavors for the year 2014. The average price of all 60 copies sold for 2014 is $4,464, for a total of $267,847 (again, average price of all copies sold, in all flavors. Yes, I did the math.)

 

2014 was a banner year for TMNT in terms of sales, which includes 2 9.8s at about $15,000 each.

 

If we consider 2015, you'll find that (so far) there have been 53 sales in all flavors, for an average price of $3,698 (total of $196,007) ...a substantial difference from 2014.

 

As economics theorizes, if even a good quantity of those copies were to come to the market at the same time, the demand would be met, and the price would plummet.

 

Therefore, while you're looking at potentially millions of dollars, the reality is...again...you'd have to find buyers willing to pay those millions of dollars, for us to be truly looking at millions of dollars.

 

Now, if we were looking at 3,000 ounces of gold, that would (at current prices) be about $3.5M, and we really would be looking at millions of dollars. 3,000 ounces of gold could be absorbed without batting an eye. There are roughly 20 MILLION ounces of gold traded every single day. Finding buyers at the current price of $1069 would not be difficult at all.

 

http://www.gata.org/node/8248

 

Not so much, TMNT #1 first prints.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Yeah I was doing the math on that earlier. 3275 copies @ 3k average is 10m. At 5k avg is over 16m

 

If all copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. If many copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. And that's assuming all these copies even exist, much less could be sold for an average of $3,000.

 

It's fun to speculate that the boxes would be "worth millions", but it's not realistic. If all 3275 (or thereabouts) copies came on the market at the same time, they may not even be worth $1,000,000. For the boxes to be worth millions, you'd have to have buyers willing to pay millions for them.

 

But that's something we will never know.

 

I've gotta speculate that it is absolutely true that those boxes are worth $1,000,000. Even if every book hit the market at the same time today, you would need a pool of 3,275 individuals willing to pay $300 per copy. Given the popularity of the turtles, I would be shocked if you could not find 3,275 people willing to pay $300 per copy.

 

I imagine you'd be very, very hard pressed to find 3,275 people willing to pay $300 for a copy of TMNT #1 if they were all available at the same time.

 

Remember...that includes every single copy, in every single grade, and there are a ton bunch of restored copies floating around, raw AND slabbed.

 

People just couldn't resist those black magic markers.

[Bronty]

Yeah I was doing the math on that earlier. 3275 copies @ 3k average is 10m. At 5k avg is over 16m

 

If all copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. If many copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet.

 

welcome to anything ever

[Bronty]

Yeah I was doing the math on that earlier. 3275 copies @ 3k average is 10m. At 5k avg is over 16m

 

If all copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. If many copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. And that's assuming all these copies even exist, much less could be sold for an average of $3,000.

 

It's fun to speculate that the boxes would be "worth millions", but it's not realistic. If all 3275 (or thereabouts) copies came on the market at the same time, they may not even be worth $1,000,000. For the boxes to be worth millions, you'd have to have buyers willing to pay millions for them.

 

But that's something we will never know.

 

I've gotta speculate that it is absolutely true that those boxes are worth $1,000,000. Even if every book hit the market at the same time today, you would need a pool of 3,275 individuals willing to pay $300 per copy. Given the popularity of the turtles, I would be shocked if you could not find 3,275 people willing to pay $300 per copy.

 

I imagine you'd be very, very hard pressed to find 3,275 people willing to pay $300 for a copy of TMNT #1 if they were all available at the same time.

 

Remember...that includes every single copy, in every single grade, and there are a ton bunch of restored copies floating around, raw AND slabbed.

 

People just couldn't resist those black magic markers.

 

Bullshizzle. @300 you'd sell every copy without trying. In fact, I bet you might even be able to find a single person to take the stack for the million bucks you're talking about.

 

 

[jaybuck43]

Also if we are assuming that the books are in today's grades (i.e. having to sell a 3.5 and having to sell a 9.8) all the books would have to do is AVERAGE $300. So if a C-3 1.8 sells for $15, it's balanced out by a higher grade book selling for $585.

[GM8]

Yeah I was doing the math on that earlier. 3275 copies @ 3k average is 10m. At 5k avg is over 16m

 

If all copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. If many copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. And that's assuming all these copies even exist, much less could be sold for an average of $3,000.

 

It's fun to speculate that the boxes would be "worth millions", but it's not realistic. If all 3275 (or thereabouts) copies came on the market at the same time, they may not even be worth $1,000,000. For the boxes to be worth millions, you'd have to have buyers willing to pay millions for them.

 

But that's something we will never know.

 

Sorry to throw sunshine on your rainy parade but all 3275 copies would never come to the market at once.

 

That is correct, as I already stated here:

 

But that's something we will never know

 

In case I wasn't clear, that's what "that's something we will never know" means: not only will all those copies not come to market at once, not even all of those copies exist anymore.

 

There is/was no comic "black monday" when everyone wanted to sell at the same moment in time. The comic book market isn't that efficient.

 

Correct. That's what makes it speculation.

 

Even in "black Monday", there were still buyers....not *everyone* sold.

 

It's no speculation. There are millions of dollars in that picture.

 

No, there is potential, and speculation. There aren't millions of dollars in that picture. There's only potential, and that potential isn't likely even in the nearly impossible scenario of all extant copies coming to the market at once.

 

It's nothing but speculation. The market for TMNT #1 is so thin, even 100 copies coming on to the market at the same time would substantively affect the value of the book.

 

No rain. Just facts.

 

Oh how I love stubborn negativity.

 

As bronty said previously, at $300 pretty much every comic collector who has a brain is a buyer of TMNT #1 1st print. That makes that stack worth at least 7 figures.

 

It's just a fun point. Don't attach so much absoluteness to it and focus on a glut just to disprove a fact. There is no glut now, nor is there likely to be one with this book. The turtles are still in mainstream pop culture and when the 90's kids get into their mid-lives who knows how many tens of millions those 3,275 will be worth.

[Bronty]

well said.

 

Let's create a fictional glut to disprove common sense. Dafuq?

 

Point is, they are worth a crapload. And the bigger point of the photo is... there was a point in time when they were all together (we know that, but its another thing to see it). Just go to that back door in New England in 1984, reach in, help yourself to a box or two. They won't mind

[RockMyAmadeus]

Yeah I was doing the math on that earlier. 3275 copies @ 3k average is 10m. At 5k avg is over 16m

 

If all copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. If many copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. And that's assuming all these copies even exist, much less could be sold for an average of $3,000.

 

It's fun to speculate that the boxes would be "worth millions", but it's not realistic. If all 3275 (or thereabouts) copies came on the market at the same time, they may not even be worth $1,000,000. For the boxes to be worth millions, you'd have to have buyers willing to pay millions for them.

 

But that's something we will never know.

 

I've gotta speculate that it is absolutely true that those boxes are worth $1,000,000. Even if every book hit the market at the same time today, you would need a pool of 3,275 individuals willing to pay $300 per copy. Given the popularity of the turtles, I would be shocked if you could not find 3,275 people willing to pay $300 per copy.

 

I imagine you'd be very, very hard pressed to find 3,275 people willing to pay $300 for a copy of TMNT #1 if they were all available at the same time.

 

Remember...that includes every single copy, in every single grade, and there are a ton bunch of restored copies floating around, raw AND slabbed.

 

People just couldn't resist those black magic markers.

 

Bullshizzle. @300 you'd sell every copy without trying. In fact, I bet you might even be able to find a single person to take the stack for the million bucks you're talking about.

 

 

Doubt it.