When did Wolverine really become popular?? 2 2

[VintageComics]

How can you be the biggest character in comics and not have your own monthly book in YOUR name?

 

Because comics were different back then, and there was none of this "mass overexposure to make a quick buck" that we saw in the late-80's and 90's. Marvel actually worried about ruining Wolverine by putting him in too many books and there was a moratorium on doling out his origin - keep him mysterious.

 

In the 90's that all changed, and you're making the big mistake of using a 90's speculator mindset to judge a character in the early-1980's.

 

That's what I think and why I said what I did (and asked what I asked earlier in the thread).

 

I think.

[joe_collector]

In the college town I was in, the very first comic book store they ever had was still in the first year of its existence. He got in a lot of back issues he bought in that first year (I know because I worked for him), but it wasn't until 1987 he got that first run of Bryne X-Men and said, "These are hot books".

 

Sure, and I went to a comic book store in the early-80's and bought a pile of DC 12-cent books at cover price. No joke.

 

But I am talking about the market in general, the OS prices, the mail order prices, the magazine articles, OS reports, etc. Byrne was hot and the X-Men were hot.

[Prince Namor]

How can you be the biggest character in comics and not have your own monthly book in YOUR name?

 

Because comics were different back then, and there was none of this "mass overexposure to make a quick buck" that we saw in the late-80's and 90's. Marvel actually worried about ruining Wolverine by putting him in too many books and there was a moratorium on doling out his origin - keep him mysterious.

 

In the 90's that all changed, and you're making the big mistake of using a 90's speculator mindset to judge a character in the early-1980's.

 

So why did Spider-man appear in 5 books a month?

[joe_collector]

So why did Spider-man appear in 5 books a month?

 

Gee, I didn't see that one coming and I was actually going to post "someone is going to bring up Spider-man" low-hanging fruit.

 

As we all know, Spidey was gold at Marvel, and just like Batman and Superman, there are no rules with icons like that.

 

Let's spin it the other way, are you really saying that Wolverine was LESS popular than Devil Dinosaur? Using your logic DD must have been way more popular, since he got his own title.

[Prince Namor]

In the college town I was in, the very first comic book store they ever had was still in the first year of its existence. He got in a lot of back issues he bought in that first year (I know because I worked for him), but it wasn't until 1987 he got that first run of Bryne X-Men and said, "These are hot books".

 

Sure, and I went to a comic book store in the early-80's and bought a pile of DC 12-cent books at cover price. No joke.

 

But I am talking about the market in general, the OS prices, the mail order prices, the magazine articles, OS reports, etc. Byrne was hot and the X-Men were hot.

 

Yes they were.

But I'm talking white hot ultra super nova Death of Superman type of hot. And they were not that.

 

 

[mar-vell]

How can you be the biggest character in comics and not have your own monthly book in YOUR name?

 

Because comics were different back then, and there was none of this "mass overexposure to make a quick buck" that we saw in the late-80's and 90's. Marvel actually worried about ruining Wolverine by putting him in too many books and there was a moratorium on doling out his origin - keep him mysterious.

 

In the 90's that all changed, and you're making the big mistake of using a 90's speculator mindset to judge a character in the early-1980's.

 

So why did Spider-man appear in 5 books a month?

 

The truth is spidey was still marvels flagship character but even so 5 books a month was stretching him a little thin. I personally felt spectacular and amazing were the only ones worthwhile and the rest were throwaway.

 

I think to a degree spidey kept wolverine down. Spidey had large appeal and was american as apple pie at that point. Spidey also had wholesomeness going for him. Parents were comfortable with their 5 year olds pretending to be him. At the time spidey was on the rise he really just had to compete with the FF to be the face of the franchise and as good as they were being only a year older they were not deeply entrenched like spidey was when wolverine was on the rise.

 

So spidey was a proven character who could carry 5 titles a month without too much danger of being overexposed even if some of the stuff was drek. Thats a rare bird there. Could marvel have had enough foresight to see wolverine potentially carrying some of that load going forward but were cautious about presenting a character with so many grey areas as a face of the franchise?

[Prince Namor]

So why did Spider-man appear in 5 books a month?

 

Gee, I didn't see that one coming and I was actually going to post "someone is going to bring up Spider-man" low-hanging fruit.

 

As we all know, Spidey was gold at Marvel, and just like Batman and Superman, there are no rules with icons like that.

 

Let's spin it the other way, are you really saying that Wolverine was LESS popular than Devil Dinosaur? Using your logic DD must have been way more popular, since he got his own title.

 

Company's that size make dumb decisions like that every day.

But believing they held Wolverine back for 'editorial' reasons?

Doesn't sound like the Marvel I know.

This is the same company that brought Gwen Stacey back as a clone less than two years after she died, because the fans asked for it.

 

The most likely reason they held back, is because of the change over going on between newsstand and Direct Market. DM would protect them from having any returns on a book they took a chance on that didn't succeed.

This would explain the toe dip in the water approach with mini's.

Once DM began to dominate, Marvel opened up to a lot more over exposure, despite any editorial input.

[VintageComics]

How many titles to Deadpool and Wolverine carry successfully (or have they carried successfully in the past)?

 

To my knowledge Wolvie could only really carry one title at a time (and it restarted several times) and yet he is without question a world recognized character at this point in time.

 

Same with Deadpool. I talked to a store owner in my travels and he said Deadpool carries his whole store. How many titles is Deadpool in? Honest question.

 

I think that the rules that applied to Spidey in the 1970's and early 1980's didn't apply to anyone else.

[Prince Namor]

How can you be the biggest character in comics and not have your own monthly book in YOUR name?

 

Because comics were different back then, and there was none of this "mass overexposure to make a quick buck" that we saw in the late-80's and 90's. Marvel actually worried about ruining Wolverine by putting him in too many books and there was a moratorium on doling out his origin - keep him mysterious.

 

In the 90's that all changed, and you're making the big mistake of using a 90's speculator mindset to judge a character in the early-1980's.

 

So why did Spider-man appear in 5 books a month?

 

The truth is spidey was still marvels flagship character but even so 5 books a month was stretching him a little thin. I personally felt spectacular and amazing were the only ones worthwhile and the rest were throwaway.

 

I think to a degree spidey kept wolverine down. Spidey had large appeal and was american as apple pie at that point. Spidey also had wholesomeness going for him. Parents were comfortable with their 5 year olds pretending to be him. At the time spidey was on the rise he really just had to compete with the FF to be the face of the franchise and as good as they were being only a year older they were not deeply entrenched like spidey was when wolverine was on the rise.

 

So spidey was a proven character who could carry 5 titles a month without too much danger of being overexposed even if some of the stuff was drek. Thats a rare bird there. Could marvel have had enough foresight to see wolverine potentially carrying some of that load going forward but were cautious about presenting a character with so many grey areas as a face of the franchise?

 

You're possibly on to something there.

The 'Anti-hero' became a lot more of a cool thing towards the end of the 80's, almost as a backlash of culture (ushered in with the end of Hair Metal and the start of Grunge), so it was much easier for the mainstream to accept a 'hero' like Wolverine.

[Prince Namor]

How many titles to Deadpool and Wolverine carry successfully (or have they carried successfully in the past)?

 

To my knowledge Wolvie could only really carry one title at a time (and it restarted several times) and yet he is without question a world recognized character at this point in time.

 

Same with Deadpool. I talked to a store owner in my travels and he said Deadpool carries his whole store. How many titles is Deadpool in? Honest question.

 

I think that the rules that applied to Spidey in the 1970's and early 1980's didn't apply to anyone else.

 

Well for Wolverine, it would be two, his series + the X-Men, but his popularity grew differently than characters in the 70's - He was a huge success in the early 90's X-Men cartoon and the video games and then the movies... There are kids who love that character today who've maybe never even read a comic.

 

Deadpool is still a niche in comics. A HUGE niche. But one that Marvel exploits in a number of other ways (across the entire line variants, stop and start series). His popularity came about at a time when the way comics are published have changed.

Plus I would imagine It's difficult to incorporate that character into regular continuity, because of his... Because of the way he's written. Remender did a good job with it in 2010's X-Force series, but I imagine it's a challenge.

[VintageComics]

How many titles to Deadpool and Wolverine carry successfully (or have they carried successfully in the past)?

 

To my knowledge Wolvie could only really carry one title at a time (and it restarted several times) and yet he is without question a world recognized character at this point in time.

 

Same with Deadpool. I talked to a store owner in my travels and he said Deadpool carries his whole store. How many titles is Deadpool in? Honest question.

 

I think that the rules that applied to Spidey in the 1970's and early 1980's didn't apply to anyone else.

 

Well for Wolverine, it would be two, his series + the X-Men, but his popularity grew differently than characters in the 70's - He was a huge success in the early 90's X-Men cartoon and the video games and then the movies... There are kids who love that character today who've maybe never even read a comic.

 

Deadpool is still a niche in comics. A HUGE niche. But one that Marvel exploits in a number of other ways (across the entire line variants, stop and start series). His popularity came about at a time when the way comics are published have changed.

Plus I would imagine It's difficult to incorporate that character into regular continuity, because of his... Because of the way he's written. Remender did a good job with it in 2010's X-Force series, but I imagine it's a challenge.

 

My point still stands though, that both characters are currently wildly popular (as in white hot) and they still can barely carry a single series each (two if you include Wolverine's team appearance in X-men although I believe he also had some short stories in the Marvel ?_?_?_?_? series (can't remember the name) in the late 1980's / early 1990's).

 

So that does not seem to be the measure of a character's popularity any longer.

 

 

[Randall Dowling]

So why did Spider-man appear in 5 books a month?

 

Gee, I didn't see that one coming and I was actually going to post "someone is going to bring up Spider-man" low-hanging fruit.

 

As we all know, Spidey was gold at Marvel, and just like Batman and Superman, there are no rules with icons like that.

 

Let's spin it the other way, are you really saying that Wolverine was LESS popular than Devil Dinosaur? Using your logic DD must have been way more popular, since he got his own title.

 

Yes, by this logic, the following were more popular than Wolverine:

 

Man from Atlantis

Machine Man

Human Fly

Arion, Lord of Atlantis

Power Pack

Sisterhood of Steel

Void Indigo

Booster Gold

Omega the Unknown

 

And yes, even

 

Sectaurs!

 

I'm sure that I could compile sales data that would show that all of these had higher sales numbers than the oft stated non-existent Wolverine series of the time. Therefore, they must have been hotter, right? I could also add up all of the sales figures of all of those books and show that more copies of these titles had been sold than UXM, therefore, collectively, they must have been more popular than the X-men, right?

 

What I don't get is why there is such a push to revise history and diminish the success of Wolverine by the guys that weren't collecting comics at that time. Why is it so important to argue against the significance of the biggest modern age character? And by the way, I'm not a huge Wolverine fan today by any means. I don't own Hulk 180-182. And I really disliked the X-men Origins: Wolverine movie. But I still find it silly to argue against his importance and popularity from 1980 on.

 

RMA and Chuck, do you really believe he wasn't that big of a deal in 1983? Why do you think we're telling you otherwise?

 

[slym2none]

That's a lot of Bub action right there.

 

Suck it, noob.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[Rip]

Since Im having fun looking back at some awards and old books

 

CBG FAVORITE COVER

1982: Wolverine #1

 

(Under Maggie Thompson's additions)

http://www.cbgxtra.com/knowledge-base/for-your-reference/cbg-fan-award-winners-1982-present

 

And another from Eagle 1986: (Award not given 84-85)

Character Most Worthy of Own Title

Wolverine

[Logan510]

Just out of curiosity, how many people here were excited when they announced Wolverine getting his own monthly series and then how many were disappointed that he was pretending to be some guy named "Patch" in a made up Asian city?

 

 

At least the Buscema art was solid :::sigh::

[Logan510]

So why did Spider-man appear in 5 books a month?

 

Gee, I didn't see that one coming and I was actually going to post "someone is going to bring up Spider-man" low-hanging fruit.

 

As we all know, Spidey was gold at Marvel, and just like Batman and Superman, there are no rules with icons like that.

 

Let's spin it the other way, are you really saying that Wolverine was LESS popular than Devil Dinosaur? Using your logic DD must have been way more popular, since he got his own title.

 

Company's that size make dumb decisions like that every day.

But believing they held Wolverine back for 'editorial' reasons?

Doesn't sound like the Marvel I know.

This is the same company that brought Gwen Stacey back as a clone less than two years after she died, because the fans asked for it.

 

The most likely reason they held back, is because of the change over going on between newsstand and Direct Market. DM would protect them from having any returns on a book they took a chance on that didn't succeed.

This would explain the toe dip in the water approach with mini's.

Once DM began to dominate, Marvel opened up to a lot more over exposure, despite any editorial input.

 

This is also the same company that turned down Byrne's proposal for X-Men: Hidden years in the late 1980's because " too many books with X-Men in the title would confuse the readers". How times changed just a few short years later and the rest is history.

[Prince Namor]

RMA and Chuck, do you really believe he wasn't that big of a deal in 1983? Why do you think we're telling you otherwise?

 

No one said he wasn't a big deal in 1983.

He was popular in 1983. Amongst X-Men collectors he was very popular.

But white hot super nova Mainstream big deal?

No.

Not yet.

[TheAvenger80]

Wow, who dug up this thread? I don't even remember starting it! When I saw it was started by me at first I thought that my account had been hacked! haha.

[RockMyAmadeus]

In NY/NJ you couldn't touch a Byrne back issue without paying way over guide in 1983.

 

Yeah, the NY area was always well above the rest of the country in terms of prices.

 

Looking at sales and awards only tells part of the story.

 

I absolutely agree, which is why we have to look at all the information available. It's never enough to look at one piece of the puzzle, even if it is a part of the picture. No one piece tells the picture, but the more pieces you have, the clearer the picture becomes.

 

[delekkerste]

No one said he wasn't a big deal in 1983.

He was popular in 1983. Amongst X-Men collectors he was very popular.

But white hot super nova Mainstream big deal?

No.

Not yet.

 

Yeah, but by that criteria, he didn't hit the big time until much after "the late '80s" as well. Sure, he got his own title and MCP and whatnot then, but he didn't achieve white hot supernova mainstream success until the first X-Men movie, by which time he had been totally burned out in the comics. I mean sure, he got mainstream exposure through the animated series and videogames and whatnot, but certainly not anything close to approaching white hot supernova mainstream success.

 

The picture is crystal clear at this point.