Moderns Have Finally Passed the Benchmark...

[Park]

I agree with you to some extent, but the Phoenix/Dark Phoenix storyline could hold its own any day. It isn't nostalgia, it's just good story writing.

 

No doubt. A good story is a good story. I believe that one has stood the test of time. I also believe there are stories being written right now that will be just as good 10-15 years from now as well.

 

There are plenty of stories back in the good 'ole days that are pure rubbish now but they were some of the most entertaining when you/I were 12.

Iron Fist has been great, and I'm more of a superhero ( X-Men/Avengers/Fantastic Four) kind of guy.

 

I have not read Iron Fist. I keep seeing everywhere how good of a book it is but just can't pull the trigger yet. Some series I have avoided as I have the completionist mentality. Once I start, I have to go back and buy them all.

 

I am mainly a superhero guy as well. Spider-man was the core of everything I read until Brand New Day. I have not enjoyed the stories since then. Batman and Detective have been entertaining to me for the last few years. I never could get into the X-men.

 

I just picked up an Invincible trade and it is a really good read. You should give it a whirl if you have not already.

[stevescu1]

I haven't analyized the numbers (and I wouldn't want to either), but "no comic hitting 100k" in one month seems like a an awful way to judge the overall health of the comics industry. If 1 comic hit 100k, but every other comic on that list sold 5% less, the numbers would be far worse, yet it wouldn't be a story. Seems like a misleading way to judge. A better way to judge the overall health would be to take the total number of issues sold of the top 25, 50, 100 or whatever, and compare the total number to previous months over the last decade or so, not just to use some arbitrary number of 100k.

 

Another point on the price of comics. I don't like to pay 3.99 for a comic either, but most books aren't 3.99. Most DC books are 2.99 unless they are larger.

 

Also comparing a $1.00 increase to increases in the past of .25 cents or whatever is also misleading. A dollar increase is a 33% increase. When comics went from .75 to $1.00 they had the same 33% increase. When did it go from .75 to a dollar? 20 years ago? Not mant things are the same price they were then. A gallon of gas was 90 cents and a movie was less than 4 dollars.

 

How many years have people been claiming the death of comics is around the corner? I guess eventually people will be right, but I'm sure the industry is in fine shape right now, at least as fine shape as they can be in the current economy. I do agree though the companies aren't doing enough to bring in new readers and expose comics to more people. If they could sell more issues they could charge more for advertising and that could help offset the costs. However the people in charge do seem to be pretty narrow minded in that regard.

 

I did see on another site that TPB sales were up, to answer another question.

 

 

[DrWatson]

You should be able to pick up the Iron Fist HCs relatively cheaply. The second is better than the first, but they're both good.

[Park]

What would you suggest be done?

I personally look forward to the day when publishers have enough faith in the material to release it, first run, in graphic novel form. Why continue the monthlies on mini-series when most folks are now waiting for the trades. (If trade sales were included in industry figures in a way that matched apples to apples we could all see how large of a portion of the overall market theyare.) I look at the small successes of things like Sin City: Family Values, Pride of Baghdad or The Goon: Chinatown and think how cool it would be to run a real comic BOOK store.

 

I think that is another shift that is inevitable. I utilize trades right now to try out books that I would normally not read. That has led to me picking up the monthlies in some cases. I have been collecting for years so I am conditioned to pick up the monthlies. There is one series that I only read through the trades and that is The Walking Dead. I think it is the perfect format. It is still odd to me to not pick up the monthly issue but I think some stories are a better fit for that format.

 

I was certainly resistant to trades but they are opening up material to me that I would normally not read. How would publishers be able to effectively market first run material in trades though? I am guessing that most of The Walking Dead's success was through word of mouth?

 

I keep flipping through Pride of Baghdad every time I am in a comic or book store and have not grabbed it yet. Is it that good?

[Park]

In five years when my son is 12, is he going to get the same joy of reading comic books as I did?

The real question is when your son is 12 will he want to read a comic in the same format as you read it. That has been the hardest thing for the publishers to deal with...putting comics in a format that tech savvy 12 year olds care about.

The interesting shift in comics marketing to me is the fact that Marvel and DC, while saying they would love to get kid readers, have given up marketing to them because it doesn't work. Instead, they have chosen to market to teens and young adults. Most of the new readers we attract are in the 15 to 25 age group who have been introduced in a way that makes them think comics are cool.

 

Ii depends. Right now that is what he is used to as I give him some books and he has bought others with his allowance. Given a choice of trades he sees in my room or monthlies, he has always gone for the monthly version.

 

When I was a kid (and I assume most of us), allowance was spent mainly on one thing: comic books. Today my son has so many choices and I would say that 1 out of 5 times does he choose to spend his allowance on comic books. That is a lot of competition for comic books.

 

I can understand the big two giving up marketing to kids. It still sucks as I think if they can get kids by 10-12 then they will have them for life. 15-25, I am not so sure but I am not basing that on anything but my opinion.

 

Oh well, I will do my part to keep my son interested without cramming them down his throat and see if I can get him hooked. (thumbs u

[Mr. Zipper]

48,378k copies times cover $2.99 = $144,650 compared to over 20 years ago 200k copies times cover .75 cents = $150,000.

so Marvel is making about the same money comic saleswise,plus if you count movies,dvds and videogames they are making more money then ever.

 

Not really...

 

$150,000 twenty years ago is a lot more than $144,650 in today's dollars.

 

But, yes, they are making much more on licensing. Probably more than enough to close the publishing gap and then some.

 

Will the comics themselves soon be a loss leader for the other merchandise?

[NewWorldOrder]

I am assuming your playing around calling me a spoon, if not let me know.

 

 

A little...I tried to edit it.

But I do think you need to think about those kind of blanket statements. If you don't like a title, say so...and don't buy it. If you have thought of a good way to change or improve a title, say so...the publishers would love to hear it. Like I said, they would love to sell more comics.

But to just say 75% of all comics should be cancelled, and the talent should have their pay cut is just plain s t u p i d.

 

And to call Bendis talentless is going way overboard

 

I didn't say Bendis was talentless I said he is very over rated.

 

If you condensed all the core characters and team titles for each you would have 50-75% less in the market.

 

So I stand by my stantment.

 

 

I am telling the publishers how to get better....TRIM THE FAT amd keep the meat.

 

 

 

 

 

[Fireboy]

For whoever suggested Iron Fist,

+1

[MR.COMICBOOK]

[quote name=ParkThat is the sad part to me about the sales figures being down. In five years when my son is 12, is he going to get the same joy of reading comic books as I did? Heck, will comic books still exist in the same form? [/quote]

I think if you were 12 today, you would pick videogames and internet over comics.

Comics will survive as a niche, just like books. praying someday for that new major hit like Da Vinci Code, Twilight or Harry Potter to bring them back to relevency.

[JWKyle]

I haven't bought a new book in a year with the price hike I figure I won't buy any this year or probably ever again there is plenty of bronze and silver stuff to feed my thirst for comics even though they were printed on crappy news print didn't have full page ink coverage and most were written by one guy in the silver age yes Stan. Now those were comics. Oh and by the way I work on Copiers I think anyone in this field will agree 100% coverage on a better stock of paper is more expensive to produce then say news paper stock with 50-60% coverage per page. Even though comics are done on a 4 color presses coverage area matters in the cost as does the type of paper. Go back to news print stock don't bleed the whole page from edge to edge and charge us 2.00 to 2.50 and I'll start buying new books again.

[shortstack comics]

48,378k copies times cover $2.99 = $144,650 compared to over 20 years ago 200k copies times cover .75 cents = $150,000.

so Marvel is making about the same money comic saleswise,plus if you count movies,dvds and videogames they are making more money then ever.

 

Not really...

 

$150,000 twenty years ago is a lot more than $144,650 in today's dollars.

 

But, yes, they are making much more on licensing. Probably more than enough to close the publishing gap and then some.

 

Will the comics themselves soon be a loss leader for the other merchandise?

 

This is still misleading, because Marvel doesn't charge coverprice. I really don't know but with Diamond holding a monopoly on distribution, I pretty sure that the Marvel income (based as a percentage of cover price) probably isn't what it was when comics only cost 75 cents and there was a competition for distribution.

 

Ugh... nevermind... I can't even begin to defend the markup...

[Reno McCoy]

I'd be interested in seeing original graphic novels rule the roost, but that's not realistic. Maybe for Marvel and DC, but not all comics are Marvel and DC. Do you think Eric Powell would be able to sustain a living if he created a Goon hardcover every 8 months and nothing else?

 

At least where we are now, creators need a way to keep their name in front of readers and make a little money each month. That's either going to happen with monthly issues or web comics.

 

Of course, I'm not a big fan of the $3.99 cover price. I'm down to just reading five monthlies, and I'm sure I'll cut even that if the new Batman and Detective Comics doesn't wow me. And once Brubaker is off Daredevil, I wonder how long I'll keep reading that one.

[Broken Shakespear]

 

WOW...that's both amazing, and very sad

 

 

look at "the worlds greatest comic magazine" OUCH!!!!!!

 

the Marvel flagship for years, is selling 48K in copies!

48,378k copies times cover $2.99 = $144,650 compared to over 20 years ago 200k copies times cover .75 cents = $150,000.

so Marvel is making about the same money comic saleswise,plus if you count movies,dvds and videogames they are making more money then ever.

 

Except you forgot to take into account inflation...

 

Making $150,000 20 years ago is like making $270,000 today, because the value of money has declined. So @ $144,650, Marvel would be making just a little over half of what they made 20 years ago in gross revenue.

[MR.COMICBOOK]

 

WOW...that's both amazing, and very sad

 

 

look at "the worlds greatest comic magazine" OUCH!!!!!!

 

the Marvel flagship for years, is selling 48K in copies!

48,378k copies times cover $2.99 = $144,650 compared to over 20 years ago 200k copies times cover .75 cents = $150,000.

so Marvel is making about the same money comic saleswise,plus if you count movies,dvds and videogames they are making more money then ever.

 

Except you forgot to take into account inflation...

 

Making $150,000 20 years ago is like making $270,000 today, because the value of money has declined. So @ $144,650, Marvel would be making just a little over half of what they made 20 years ago in gross revenue.

yeah but as I stated they make most of thier profits from videogames and movies, 20 years ago they made nothing from that source as there were no marvel videogames or marvel blockbuster movies.Marvel is doing better now then 20 years ago.They have adapted to the modern times.

[The Question?]

 

WOW...that's both amazing, and very sad

 

 

look at "the worlds greatest comic magazine" OUCH!!!!!!

 

the Marvel flagship for years, is selling 48K in copies!

48,378k copies times cover $2.99 = $144,650 compared to over 20 years ago 200k copies times cover .75 cents = $150,000.

so Marvel is making about the same money comic saleswise,plus if you count movies,dvds and videogames they are making more money then ever.

 

Except you forgot to take into account inflation...

 

Making $150,000 20 years ago is like making $270,000 today, because the value of money has declined. So @ $144,650, Marvel would be making just a little over half of what they made 20 years ago in gross revenue.

yeah but as I stated they make most of thier profits from videogames and movies, 20 years ago they made nothing from that source as there were no marvel videogames or marvel blockbuster movies.Marvel is doing better now then 20 years ago.They have adapted to the modern times.

 

 

 

 

Overall, this is absolutely true!

[joe_collector]

I also believe there are stories being written right now that will be just as good 10-15 years from now as well.

 

Sure, but not from Marvel or DC. All those lamers are doing is looking back and trying to keep the adult fanboy, retconning past events, stealing from What If storylines, and attempting to link the POS of today with quality work of yesteryear.

 

It's just pure unadulterated backwash crapola.

 

The real inventive and ground-breaking stuff is happening outside the Big 2, and something like Bone will be read and appreciated for decades to come.

[MR.COMICBOOK]

I also believe there are stories being written right now that will be just as good 10-15 years from now as well.

 

Sure, but not from Marvel or DC. All those lamers are doing is looking back and trying to keep the adult fanboy, retconning past events, stealing from What If storylines, and attempting to link the POS of today with quality work of yesteryear.

 

It's just pure unadulterated backwash crapola.

 

The real inventive and ground-breaking stuff is happening outside the Big 2, and something like Bone will be read and appreciated for decades to come.

I couldn`t have stated better. The question now is, when will the big 2 finally do something about it?

[whisp]

 

WOW...that's both amazing, and very sad

 

 

look at "the worlds greatest comic magazine" OUCH!!!!!!

 

the Marvel flagship for years, is selling 48K in copies!

48,378k copies times cover $2.99 = $144,650 compared to over 20 years ago 200k copies times cover .75 cents = $150,000.

so Marvel is making about the same money comic saleswise,plus if you count movies,dvds and videogames they are making more money then ever.

 

Except you forgot to take into account inflation...

 

Making $150,000 20 years ago is like making $270,000 today, because the value of money has declined. So @ $144,650, Marvel would be making just a little over half of what they made 20 years ago in gross revenue.

yeah but as I stated they make most of thier profits from videogames and movies, 20 years ago they made nothing from that source as there were no marvel videogames or marvel blockbuster movies.Marvel is doing better now then 20 years ago.They have adapted to the modern times.

 

Plus toys, digital comics and whatever else.

[joe_collector]

The real question is when your son is 12 will he want to read a comic in the same format as you read it. That has been the hardest thing for the publishers to deal with...putting comics in a format that tech savvy 12 year olds care about.

 

Sorry, but that's only a small part of the story.

 

The real problem is that there are no longer any "entry-level" comics for young children, and therefore no way to bridge the gap to pre-teens. I have a great personal example of this.

 

My kids got the set of Harvey TPBs for Christmas (I was lucky to find an old OOP Richie Rich sitting in a bookstore) and recently got the 5th volume in time for a birthday. They absolutely love them, and even took them to school a few times. Afterwards, I got calls from parents asking where I got the books, as their kids were asking for them.

 

Just this weekend, my daughter was looking through the cover gallery, and asked me what those were and why they said "10-cents", and I told her those were old covers from the original comics. That was a bit of a surprise, especially when I told her the age of these comics.

 

She immediately wanted to go out and buy more Little Audrey and Little Dot comics.. right that instant, and I had to tell her that they stopped making those years ago. She asked why, and I just said they no longer make comics for little kids.

 

Her reply: "That's stupid, kids still like reading comics."

 

From the mouthes of babes.

[joe_collector]

Except you forgot to take into account inflation...

 

Making $150,000 20 years ago is like making $270,000 today, because the value of money has declined. So @ $144,650, Marvel would be making just a little over half of what they made 20 years ago in gross revenue.

 

Not to mention that Marvel/Diamond doesn't get full cover price from their customers (the stores), production and labor costs are much higher, and that a top-selling comic in the 80's would be pushing 500K sales.

 

No matter how you slice it, the comic publishing business in 2009 is a pale, very thin shadow of its former self.