PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[RockMyAmadeus]

(I work nights and it took me a while to catch up, this thread and the others)

 

To answer Slym as to why I voted No:

 

While I agree, Solarcadet's actions haven't been well thought out, I still think the HOS is too severe and should be reserved for the worst of the worst. (I believe it was Balls who said something similar)

 

Perhaps being the focus of a mess storm, plus a possible language barrier issue, has led to more ill advised posts from SC.

 

This is just my opinion and feel the "pile on" mentality has set in. Now it's bedtime.

 

I understand your perspective Hado, and I know HOS seems extreme, and should be used in those most egregious scenarios...

 

but think about how our marketplace works. Its a social contract between internet strangers (often). Unless stated otherwise we all agree to sell books to each other via the typical conveyances of the .

 

Thats the most basic of our marketplace protocol.

 

He violated that. Thumbed his nose even at honoring an outright in a standard sales thread.

 

If we let someone get a pass on abiding by the basic agreements of the marketplace, what are we saying? No one is socially bound to anything in the marketplace?

 

While his act was done to a particular member, it was also done to the marketplace as a whole. And to me that's the egregious nature of it.

 

While some of the HOS listees are there because of big dollar screwjobs, or repeated cheaters, I would say someone outright blows off the rules of the marketplace and shows no regret for doing so doesnt have a path to make things right.

 

There's nothing from preventing him from participating in the message board as a whole, but the fact that he doesnt give two shakes about how the marketplace abides, to me, means he isnt welcome in the marketplace.

 

And that's before even getting into his attempt to change his own sale thread rules, trying to make someone pay via paypal personal, etc etc...

Understood and well stated.

 

Like I said, it was just my opinion, that last nights choices were the result of feeling like a cornered animal. (I'm not going to even comment on the illness thing.)

 

I still have trouble equating $15 dollars and a poor attitude to what Mr. Thaeda did, and would think after a night to cool down SC might be able to think of ways to begin making a mends to people and get off the PL.

 

Understandably some may not want to deal with him regardless. My dealings with SC have been amazing, he even helped me get a book from Europe, with no gain for himself.

 

I mostly just wanted people to know that the "No" votes, at least my own, were coming from people who feel the HOS is too much of a penalty. And not from shills.

 

 

I've learned from my experiences that someone who lies for $15 should be watched even more closely than the person that would lie for $15,000. If they'd lie for $15 there's almost no level to which they would not stoop.

 

 

To be fair, the guy did help him get a book from Europe

 

 

 

 

He negotiated a price through a friend in another country, had a book then shipped to his home then on to myself, some people would charge a finders or facilitator fee. I was trying to show why I have a good opinion of SC.

 

Apologies if that offends.

 

I'm not offended, I'm amused. He was able to help you out with a book you wanted, so he can't be that bad of a guy...right?

 

[MetalPSI]

Also, concerning LSComics question asking for clarity on some of the foreigns comments….. I do not think he was being out of line at all requesting clarification. Being that Tony is one of the most outspoken members of the small little sub-community here that collects foreigns, like it or not he is one very public face of our little sub-community. It becomes very easy to stigmatize an entire minority within the larger majority when the sub-group is small enough, has fewer voices, and can be lumped in with one persons actions. I have always felt, like it or not that the larger CGC community doesn’t quite care for the crazy foreign guys for whatever reason. Not that I see a direct attack on us necessarily but do sometimes catch little indirect digs….. I feel like many in the majority put up with us but maybe quite possibly also relish when things like this happen so as to discount what we do or who we are. Maybe im wrong, and seeing things through some biased filter but this is how I feel at the moment. And further more… im not even necessarily saying that the earlier posters meant anything negative/alienating when saying things like “international contacts” or “foreign variants”. But, these are buzzwords associated with the niche and the foreign collecting sub-community at large. So do be wary because what can be considered jokes at solarcadet’s expense could also be viewed as underhanded jabs in the foreign guys direction when considered in the context of a public face of a small minority within a larger majority. Just sayin….

 

 

 

That was a well thought out and detailed response.

 

Just wanted to make mention of how off-base lscomics was about me disparaging the international comic collecting community. If anyone would have cared to ask they would have found out that I am one of the more long standing and established foreign variant guys. I've established contacts with publishers on several continents and dozens of countries to get NM books across the globe and in the hands of collectors. If you have a Serbian Image book in your collection there's a 90% chance it came over in one of my purchases. If you have an Argentinian book it's probably 35-40% from one of my transactions.

 

That's why when someone gets mad about what they think is a knee-jerk reaction and they proceed to make their own knee-jerk reaction they may find themselves on the -end of being wrong.

 

It was never about foreign variants, it was about people being willing to justify and rationalize anything to get their hands on sweet-sweet books or sweet-sweet cash. Some comic collectors will let anything go to get their fix. That includes making excuses for behavior that, without the incentive of personal interest, they would never tolerate otherwise.

 

My reaction wasn't knee-jerk. Like Define999 said, I simply asked for clarification on what you had posted. Maybe you took it that way since it's not the first time you and I have disagreed. I don't know. Even having read the whole thread it still came across as condemnation of the sellers (and by extension buyers) of foreign books. That never happened though, it just became a meme-fest within the already out of control situation.

 

It's always nice to see members of this "community" you guys are so proud of treat other members with such respect. It's instances (and to be clear I mean in regards to my post, not the situation with solarcadet) like this that cause people that aren't board members to not want to become members. I've talked to more than one person at local shops and conventions about the boards and had them state that they don't want anything to do with this place because it's full of elitist jerk-holes.

 

You really are seeing a mountain when there isn't even a molehill.

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

Yeah. I had to stop clubbing baby seals before people here even knew my name

[thehumantorch]

Thanks Matt

 

the witchunt and mobbing never stops so I just sit back and laugh

 

i already made amends with the Spiderfein. no ones cares about that so keep the hating going

 

I just hunt comics that are not for sale on websites and hook people up like Matt, Hado, and just recently Ronnie(Amazing RJS). i have never stolen one red cent from anyone in the forum. Im actually putting together Christmas gift mailouts today for them.

 

Im ok with the validation of the few people that i still do private deals and hook up. You can ask Spiderfein if i made an attempt.

 

I have a good job, girlfriend, daughter, family, and cat. I stopped traffic on the 110 last Tuesday in front of the DMV and saved a dog named Pulga and found her home. in doing so Im missed my appointment and my Drivers License is now expired.

 

in good faith all i can offer is to help anyone find a foregin edition of their favorite key.

 

My spelling is bad due to typing on a smart phone but I prefer anyone to criticize that as well.

 

 

 

 

I'll probably regret this but...

 

while many folks have here to explain their votes...I have yet to see where you explain your reasons or remorse for

 

a) the statement regarding the death of your father

b) your reaction to when the issue with the most recent transaction aka daring the board to do something about it.

 

while you may think some of this is witchhunting etc, your statement above leads me to believe that you believe you are right and everyone else is wrong.

 

Even the folks that have come out in your defense seem to care more about how you are viewed than yourself.

 

If you wanted to this to go away, you thumbing your nose at everyone doesn't seem to be like you really care anyways.

 

the board should do what they want. Dare. no dare. do. Dont...

 

you want me to tell you that you are governing body and i need to do what?

 

i made right of the sales thread to spiderfein. IM entertained of the witchunt postings I want to laugh and keep it going. you feed into it.

 

give more attention than talking comics and comic threads....

 

you will keep posting and i will keep laughing.

 

 

You keep laughing yet you are hurting yourself every time you do. That you don't see it is a symptom of something bigger and a cause for concern for those around you, possibly.

 

Keep it up, laughing boy.

 

I'm going to assume you never got any cool books from him.

 

i would still send Slym a foreign of his favorite key.

 

I'd just send it back, "Return To Sender" and you'd have to pay the postage.

-slym

 

i believe you. at the end of the day you have not ruined my relationships with my PMed friends. If you do that I will bow. it cannot be done....

 

that is what you cannot take away. you group that hates me i can live with because when i log out... i dont think about it or hurt from it.

 

you cannot kill my joy of collecting and sharing foreign comics with w few peeps. do that my friends and i will bow.

 

 

 

 

Glad you still have board friends and enjoy the hobby. Ultimately you should ask yourself if you've behaved ethically and if you've made any mistakes. We all screw up from time to time and some of us learn and become better people and some never change.

[comix4fun]

I would happily relinquish everything I have for five more minutes with my Dad. For this dude to use his father this way is beyond human decency and respect.

 

I've tried to find the poll to put him up for HOS - can't find it! Mine is a resounding yes, FWIW.

 

Dan

 

 

Right there with you Dan.

[Bosco685]

The stats so far

 

[A.Romeo]

The stats so far

 

 

I'm amazed that there Are 17 NO votes. I guess those people like getting ripped off and cheated in their daily lives

[slym2none]

Yeah. I had to stop clubbing baby seals before people here even knew my name

 

Uh... um... OK?

 

 

 

 

-slym

[miraclemet]

The stats so far

 

 

I'm amazed that there Are 17 NO votes. I guess those people like getting ripped off and cheated in their daily lives

 

While everyone has their own reasons for voting one way or the other I'm going to assume that most of the "NO" votes are not people saying that cadet did nothing wrong, but just that his actions (while wrong) are not HOS worthy.

 

And to that I again return to the point...

 

by not honoring the condition of the sales thread and the he went against the most basic principle of the marketplace, and as such I would not trust him to honor anyone's if it was posted in one of his sales threads.

 

This isn't about trying to make things right with the initial (attempted) buyer. It's about keeping someone who's decided not to play by the marketplace rules out of the marketplace.

 

This isnt someone who's a lazy shipper, or an over grader, or who refused a refund. It's someone who said; here's a book for sale, here are the conditions of the sale and the price. And when someone agreed to them he first tried to change the conditions of the sale, and then decided not to sell to someone who had a valid claim on the expected transaction.

 

That to me is someone who should be on the HOS list. It's not about the ammount of money in dispute, its about the intent behind the actions. And his actions betrayed a complete lack of regard for the marketplace conventions.

 

I'm glad he is a friend and a resource to others out there, and that others have had successful private transactions. And being on the HOS doesnt stop him from continuing to be on the boards, or to have his PM friends who he is helping connect for hard to find editions.

 

But if he doesnt want to play by the marketplace rules, and his actions tell me he doesnt, and he shows such disregard for them, then he should not be in the marketplace. Thus why I think the HOS is the place to be for him. Its not about probation over a single transaction. Its about his disregard for the marketplace itself.

[Logan510]

The stats so far

 

 

I'm amazed that there Are 17 NO votes. I guess those people like getting ripped off and cheated in their daily lives

 

 

I think it's more that they like getting cool books. As long as he can deliver the cool books, why should they care about anything else

[Hado]

If you have friends on here that see value in someone that lies about their father dying to hold off on a transaction, I'm not sure those are people I give two snaps and a circle about.

 

You actually said what I was beating around the bush about.

 

 

In the end it's all about the cool books for some people.

I find this worrisome.

[Bosco685]

If you have friends on here that see value in someone that lies about their father dying to hold off on a transaction, I'm not sure those are people I give two snaps and a circle about.

 

You actually said what I was beating around the bush about.

 

 

In the end it's all about the cool books for some people.

I find this worrisome.

 

I think it is more about those folks that have a higher expectation of the level of infraction that needs to be involved so as to hit the HOS bar, and less about Solar Cadet having a small platoon of gift friends (though I would assume at least one of those votes is him - maybe more).

 

And that's okay that their standard is higher. I wouldn't buy or sell to him, as otherwise you may end up with another bad transaction, depending on which way his mind goes that day.

[etanick]

Anyone have a bead on Foolkiller. We've got a longish open order and he seems out of town. Not too worried at all as he's as upstanding as they get, just curious if others that have kept up with him can send him a note.

 

Ed

 

Bump for you so your post isn't buried in the jungle

 

p.s. and as far as SC issue, not shocking one bit of the voting result. NOthing on this board surprised me...the mantra for some people here has always been "as long as you don't screw ME, go ahead and be a person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed to anyone else because I don't give a damn as long as YOU DON'T SCREW ME"

Edited December 6, 2013 by etanick

[media_junkie]

I am nominating MrDeafComics for the probation list based on the following:

 

Purchased a Spider-Man #1 CGC 9.8 (from this sales thread http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=316545&Number=7095382#Post7095382) and have not seen delivery of the book yet.

 

Timeline:

 

10/16 - Posted the in reference to the Spider-man #1 CGC 9.8

 

10/17 - Paid in full for the book in question.

 

10/17 - MrDeafComics thanked me for payment and stated book would ship out on "Monday" with the rest. That would have put it with a ship date of 10/21

 

11/22 - MrDeafComics apologized for not having sent the book out as he had been busy and stated the book would ship out "within the week". Worst case scenario that pushes the ship date to 11/29.

 

12/5 - As of 1pm EST, a full 50 days after payment I still have not received the book.

 

12/5 - As of 2pm EST I notified MrDeafComics in a new/seperate PM that I would be bringing this to the "Probation Discussion Thread".

 

First time I have done this so let me know if any additional information is needed.

 

Thanks

 

 

did you know if anyone else who purchased on his thread received their books or have been in contact with him.

 

sorry to hear about this, I actually considered buying some books but the ones I wanted were already taken.

 

No, as of yet I haven't been in contact with anyone else that purchased from him. The only communication so far has been between us in PMs.

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

I am nominating MrDeafComics for the probation list based on the following:

 

Purchased a Spider-Man #1 CGC 9.8 (from this sales thread http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=316545&Number=7095382#Post7095382) and have not seen delivery of the book yet.

 

Timeline:

 

10/16 - Posted the in reference to the Spider-man #1 CGC 9.8

 

10/17 - Paid in full for the book in question.

 

10/17 - MrDeafComics thanked me for payment and stated book would ship out on "Monday" with the rest. That would have put it with a ship date of 10/21

 

11/22 - MrDeafComics apologized for not having sent the book out as he had been busy and stated the book would ship out "within the week". Worst case scenario that pushes the ship date to 11/29.

 

12/5 - As of 1pm EST, a full 50 days after payment I still have not received the book.

 

12/5 - As of 2pm EST I notified MrDeafComics in a new/seperate PM that I would be bringing this to the "Probation Discussion Thread".

 

First time I have done this so let me know if any additional information is needed.

 

Thanks

 

 

did you know if anyone else who purchased on his thread received their books or have been in contact with him.

 

sorry to hear about this, I actually considered buying some books but the ones I wanted were already taken.

 

No, as of yet I haven't been in contact with anyone else that purchased from him. The only communication so far has been between us in PMs.

 

Question: Should MrDeafComics be nominated for the PL or the HOS?

 

He just came off the PL 13 days ago on 11/23. LINK

 

Here is what he had to say about it before. LINK

 

[jaybuck43]

Ditch I was in the shower before thinking about this issue in the abstract and now we have the perfect test case about it (sorry but I do my best thinking in the shower ) What do you guys think of the idea of a three level punishment for small time infringers?

 

The system would work like this. Normal PL rules apply for a first time infraction. You go on the PL. If you make amends you come off the PL.

 

Now if a separate PL worthy transaction occurs you go back up on the PL but now to come off the PL not only do you have to make amends with the person who nominated you but you have to agree in the PL discussion thread to be put on the Scarlet Letter list.

 

People on the Scarlet Letter list are required to post a stock message in every single transaction post in the marketplace thread. So if someone who is on the SL posts a take it they have to post like this "On Two separate occasions I have burned a member of these boards though I did eventually make things right after being placed on the Probation List for each of these transgressions" This would serve as fair warning to buyers and sellers that the person has a reputation, it takes the onus off of checking through the history of the PL to find the person and it allows the community to easily identify repeat offenders who are not bad enough for the HoS. If they repeat a third time, auto added to the HoS (three separate strikes definitely shows a willful disregard to the community, I don't think a vote is needed at that point, but obviously all of this is up for discussion.

 

Obviously this would require a ton of discussion and votes before any of this is put into place but just wanted to run my idea past you folks

[Dick Pontoon]

I am nominating MrDeafComics for the probation list based on the following:

 

Purchased a Spider-Man #1 CGC 9.8 (from this sales thread http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=316545&Number=7095382#Post7095382) and have not seen delivery of the book yet.

 

Timeline:

 

10/16 - Posted the in reference to the Spider-man #1 CGC 9.8

 

10/17 - Paid in full for the book in question.

 

10/17 - MrDeafComics thanked me for payment and stated book would ship out on "Monday" with the rest. That would have put it with a ship date of 10/21

 

11/22 - MrDeafComics apologized for not having sent the book out as he had been busy and stated the book would ship out "within the week". Worst case scenario that pushes the ship date to 11/29.

 

12/5 - As of 1pm EST, a full 50 days after payment I still have not received the book.

 

12/5 - As of 2pm EST I notified MrDeafComics in a new/seperate PM that I would be bringing this to the "Probation Discussion Thread".

 

First time I have done this so let me know if any additional information is needed.

 

Thanks

 

 

did you know if anyone else who purchased on his thread received their books or have been in contact with him.

 

sorry to hear about this, I actually considered buying some books but the ones I wanted were already taken.

 

No, as of yet I haven't been in contact with anyone else that purchased from him. The only communication so far has been between us in PMs.

 

Not sure if my previous post was buried in the current avalanche of posts, but here it is again in case you missed it:

 

He’s already been on the PL before, but removed. Start on this page , scroll down to JOP’s post.

[bababooey]

If you link to a post rather than a page - everyone can take a look at what you are referring to. I think many here have adjusted their page settings and your link won't work.

 

1. Find the post you want to link to

2. Find any subsequent post that quoted/replied to it

3. Click the little purple name of the poster above the post - shown as (Re: purple name)

4. This will open a new window/tab in your browser on that post - copy and paste the URL from that in your message.

 

[comix4fun]

If you have friends on here that see value in someone that lies about their father dying to hold off on a transaction, I'm not sure those are people I give two snaps and a circle about.

 

You actually said what I was beating around the bush about.

 

 

In the end it's all about the cool books for some people.

I find this worrisome.

 

I think it is more about those folks that have a higher expectation of the level of infraction that needs to be involved so as to hit the HOS bar, and less about Solar Cadet having a small platoon of gift friends (though I would assume at least one of those votes is him - maybe more).

 

And that's okay that their standard is higher. I wouldn't buy or sell to him, as otherwise you may end up with another bad transaction, depending on which way his mind goes that day.

 

That's true. People will make their own judgments, as is their right.

 

To some people his extreme lack of taste, tact and manners as it pertains to one of the most serious health issues facing any family and his willingness to abuse cancer and death to forward his own selfish and petty purposes is immaterial to transactional business.

 

However, it is enough for me to never deal with him again regardless of whether or not the totality of his transactions have been positive or negative.

 

You can't un-ring a bell and I can't wipe the memory from my mind of how base and vile faking a parent's death, for any reason, really is in order to ever deal with this person again.

[jaybuck43]

bababooey there is an easier way :0) Next to the title of the post (i.e. where it says Re: PROBATION DISCUSSIONS) there is a symbol that looks like a post it note with letter writting. Can't miss it. Right click it and click "Copy Shortcut" Then click paste. All done!

[bababooey]