PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[jaybuck43]

Slym, you owe me a nice sketch (I really was impressed with your artwork, you kick sir)

 

http://instagram.com/p/vyySuNmQ89/

 

 

The SS#4 cover? That was all boardie Sarfa! I can't draw a round circle...

 

Thanks for the link, though!!!

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

Still an awesome gift!! No problem for the link. I like being Blowie's sidekick/padawan.

[oakman29]

Slym, you owe me a nice sketch (I really was impressed with your artwork, you kick sir)

 

http://instagram.com/p/vyySuNmQ89/

 

 

The SS#4 cover? That was all boardie Sarfa! I can't draw a round circle...

 

Thanks for the link, though!!!

 

 

*EDIT* Didn't see anything about what 4comix described above on there...

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

He thought you did that SS#4 cover?

[aszumilo]

I am at a loss,kinda borderline psychopathic behavior.

 

I'm going with sociopath. And I vote yes, as well.

 

 

sociopath

[soh-see-uh-path, soh-shee-]

 

noun, Psychiatry.

1. a person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is antisocial, often criminal, and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sociopath

 

 

 

psychopath

[sahy-kuh-path]

 

noun

1. a person with a psychopathic personality, which manifests as amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/psychopath

Edited January 6, 2015 by aszumilo

[hhwolfman]

[CAHokie]

If Slym did that sketch I would be buttering him up right now to do me a Black Cat. (Yes, I know "Buttering him up right now to do me" will end up in the bad place)

[Jimmy Linguini]

If Slym did that sketch I would be buttering him up right now to do me a Black Cat. (Yes, I know "Buttering him up right now to do me" will end up in the bad place)

 

Slym only sketches titanic style.

 

I'm Kate Winslit and he's that ugly guy that dies at the end.

[Shark]

I know the focus is on HusTruck right now but I wanted to bring something up.

 

I was actually going through my old PMs looking to see if I had ever done any business with HusTruck. While doing this, I came across the PM where I told BetterRunCharles he was being nominated for the PL (he was added and is still on the PL). He ended up reading it about a week later but never responded and removed himself from the PM.

 

What I noticed was when I checked his subsequent posts, he readily purchased 2 comics from 2 separate board members. I'm sure neither of the sellers were aware he was on the PL nor did they bother to check. Realistically, how often do any board sellers check the names of all of their buyers against the HOS and PL lists? I'm quite sure it's very infrequent. I know I rarely remember to check, but then again I rarely sell in here too.

 

So why do I bring all of this up? The purpose of the PL and HOS is to alert all of the honest buyers and sellers in here of those dishonest and unscrupulous people who would love to steal our comics and cash. Great information? Yes. But there has to be a better way than to constantly go back and forth checking these lists - and also remembering to do so.

 

So how about something as simple as this? Enable someone like HarveySwick (who mostly monitors and updates these lists) to add a single asterisk (*) to a PL member's board name and a double asterisk (**) to those on the HOS. And those asterisks can be removed as people are removed from the HOS and PL.

 

Thoughts?

[Iceman399]

I know the focus is on HusTruck right now but I wanted to bring something up.

 

I was actually going through my old PMs looking to see if I had ever done any business with HusTruck. While doing this, I came across the PM where I told BetterRunCharles he was being nominated for the PL (he was added and is still on the PL). He ended up reading it about a week later but never responded and removed himself from the PM.

 

What I noticed was when I checked his subsequent posts, he readily purchased 2 comics from 2 separate board members. I'm sure neither of the sellers were aware he was on the PL nor did they bother to check. Realistically, how often do any board sellers check the names of all of their buyers against the HOS and PL lists? I'm quite sure it's very infrequent. I know I rarely remember to check, but then again I rarely sell in here too.

 

So why do I bring all of this up? The purpose of the PL and HOS is to alert all of the honest buyers and sellers in here of those dishonest and unscrupulous people who would love to steal our comics and cash. Great information? Yes. But there has to be a better way than to constantly go back and forth checking these lists - and also remembering to do so.

 

 

So how about something as simple as this? Enable someone like HarveySwick (who mostly monitors and updates these lists) to add a single asterisk (*) to a PL member's board name and a double asterisk (**) to those on the HOS. And those asterisks can be removed as people are removed from the HOS and PL.

 

Thoughts?

 

Arch won't have it.

[slym2none]

If Slym did that sketch I would be buttering him up right now to do me a Black Cat. (Yes, I know "Buttering him up right now to do me" will end up in the bad place)

 

Slym only sketches titanic style.

 

I'm Kate Winslit and he's that ugly guy that dies at the end.

 

Slym doesn't sketch - as previously mentioned, I can't draw a round circle.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[MetalPSI]

HusTruck is a coward and belongs on HOS.

 

Vote.

[miraclemet]

Spb I agree the shilling and low balling and lack of scoial graces arent HOS worthy.

 

Intentional deception and misrepresentation during a transaction, and then holding the line with some "I said I could cancel the transaction for any reason" rationale (which was also not true) are all business practices that should keep Hustruck out of the marketplace

 

 

Unfortunately I've gotten enough low ball offers and stories of "I need it for my collection I promise" to fill a truck...and promises to pay by check? I've lowered many prices for promises to pay by check and then it appears no one owns checks, or they can't find them...not everyone...but I wouldn't even think of calling any of the people who didn't go the check route out for it. I just might not lower the prices for them the next time.

 

Not owning a book you have in a thread and faking a picture of a cracked case in order to deceive is bad, absolutely probation bad, but I can't see that it's hall of shame worthy.

 

Shilling is bad, but it was on eBay and I hate to say that I see it all the time done by some really "nice" people.

 

Not HOS worthy...

 

so the I've been hustrucked idea is great, but what specifically has he done that is worthy of the highest level of corner sitting here?

 

Name those please so if we do a HOS vote, it has a real shot of passing.

[EC ed]

Spb I agree the shilling and low balling and lack of scoial graces arent HOS worthy.

 

Intentional deception and misrepresentation during a transaction, and then holding the line with some "I said I could cancel the transaction for any reason" rationale (which was also not true) are all business practices that should keep Hustruck out of the marketplace

^ Sums it up nicely.

 

Let me also digress with a general thought - I think we should re-examine the notion of thinking of the HOS as some sort of "trophy wall" of the "worst of the worst" in the history of the boards - this notion seems to always cause hesitation by longer-term members in these types of matters, and I understand that (although, HOS is not the worst that can happen to a boardie...banning is worse). Rather, I think the HOS would be a more effective tool for the community if viewed as a mechanism for public censure - meaning, a vote to the HOS indicates that, in the eyes of the community, a boardie's aggregate behavior has become so reprehensible that it warrants an "official" public shaming.

 

If, for historical continuity, we want to indeed maintain the HOS as a "trophy wall of the worst in board history," then we should create another list that can serve the public censuring role I describe above...echoing back to an earlier comment of mine, we need a mechanism to formally send a message that someone's behavior is unacceptable in this community - it's important, not just for HusTruck, but for all the other "HusTruck-types" who will come along.

 

We could flesh this out in a stand-alone discussion, of course...another idea for this would be (rather than creating another list) to broaden the scope of the Probation List to allow two paths to the PL: 1) the current PL mechanism, where an individual boardie pursues a PL nomination based on a specific transaction, or 2) a community vote based on someone's aggregate reprehensible behavior...

 

Edited January 6, 2015 by edowens71

[vaillant]

psychopath

[sahy-kuh-path]

 

noun

1. a person with a psychopathic personality, which manifests as amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/psychopath

 

Setting aside for a minute the current question, one of the (big) problems I have with these modern (or post-modern) definitions, is their presumption to define in a clear cut way things like "meaningful personal relationships".

[skypinkblu]

Spb I agree the shilling and low balling and lack of scoial graces arent HOS worthy.

 

Intentional deception and misrepresentation during a transaction, and then holding the line with some "I said I could cancel the transaction for any reason" rationale (which was also not true) are all business practices that should keep Hustruck out of the marketplace

^ Sums it up nicely.

 

Let me also digress with a general thought - I think we should re-examine the notion of thinking of the HOS as some sort of "trophy wall" of the "worst of the worst" in the history of the boards - this notion seems to always cause hesitation by longer-term members in these types of matters, and I understand that (although, HOS is not the worst that can happen to a boardie...banning is worse). Rather, I think the HOS would be a more effective tool for the community if viewed as a mechanism for public censure - meaning, a vote to the HOS indicates that, in the eyes of the community, a boardie's aggregate behavior has become so reprehensible that it warrants an "official" public shaming.

 

If, for historical continuity, we want to indeed maintain the HOS as a "trophy wall of the worst in board history," then we should create another list that can serve the public censuring role I describe above...echoing back to an earlier comment of mine, we need a mechanism to formally send a message that someone's behavior is unacceptable in this community - it's important, not just for HusTruck, but for all the other "HusTruck-types" who will come along.

 

We could flesh this out in a stand-alone discussion, of course...another idea for this would be (rather than creating another list) to broaden the scope of the Probation List to allow two paths to the PL: 1) the current PL mechanism, where an individual boardie pursues a PL nomination based on a specific transaction, or 2) a community vote based on someone's aggregate reprehensible behavior...

 

This is always my problem, Ed. The probation list, when it started was a really BAD list to be on. Very few people were on there and of course there were probably less sales at the time.

 

It was much smaller and a really shameful place to be.

 

When the Hall of Shame was started it WAS for the worst of the worst. You had to be an outright thief or repeat offender to be there. We used to save it for someone put on the probation list 3 times.

 

It was REALLY small. As these things grow they lose some of their glaring "WARNING WARNING WARNING" effect.

 

It seems to me that all these calls for HOS status waters down the status of those on the HOS list.

 

Think of major supervillains when you think of the HOS.

 

Drop shipping a book that you don't own and lying...it's bad. All the other stuff he did is bad, BUT...it's not Alleybat bad. Alleybat took a $5k check and sent a box of cut up newspapers. I guess I always use him as the measure of who belongs there. I try not to get emotional about it, just look at the facts presented.

 

There are people on these boards who have never been on any of the lists who consistently lie to make money. They are people I personally will no longer deal with.

 

I was only half joking about a whackadoodle list and needing a third type of list. I don't think we are all qualified to diagnose psychotics, so whackadoodle kind of fits (or some other name).

 

I just hate to see the HOS list continually watered down when it was meant for super villains not for people who were cousins of Bizarro.

 

Mike, I've always thought that putting something in the title of people on the list, was a great idea, but Arch has been asked for years if the people on the list can be IDs in their titles or some how. I asked him years ago, I think Jason or someone else has asked more recently, he's always said no, but he does have a link to the probation list in the sales. . Unfortunately people have to do some homework.

[KPR Comics]

I agree w/you skypinkblu that the effect of the HOS gets watered down the more it grows. I don't agree that the requirements for entry should be proportional to the size of the ripoff or should be tied to economics. In my book, lying is bad. Cheating is bad. Stealing is bad.. Bad behavior is bad behavior, and when you let the "small" stuff go, it can lead to more egregious behavior.

But I'm new and respect the wisdom of you longtimers. I'm bowing out and putting the pitchfork back in the shed. Although I won't rule out board vigilantism if I see any future sales activity. Threadkrap wrist slap be damned.

 

[skypinkblu]

I agree w/you skypinkblu that the effect of the HOS gets watered down the more it grows. I don't agree that the requirements for entry should be proportional to the size of the ripoff or should be tied to economics. In my book, lying is bad. Cheating is bad. Stealing is bad.. Bad behavior is bad behavior, and when you let the "small" stuff go, it can lead to more egregious behavior.

But I'm new and respect the wisdom of you longtimers. I'm bowing out and putting the pitchfork back in the shed. Although I won't rule out board vigilantism if I see any future sales activity. Threadkrap wrist slap be damned.

 

This is the thing...He's on the probation list. People should not buy from him if he's on the probation list. People should not DEAL with him if he's on the probation list.

 

The HOS really has no greater power than that...except there is supposedly no way off (I've seen exceptions proposed).

 

That was why I asked what he'd have to do to get off the probation list. In this case, I don't see him coming off any time soon because of what he'd have to provide to get himself off of there...unless 4comixs morphs into Claudio and accepts an apology.

[Columbia Comics]

While I'm just here for the , I had an epiphany:

 

Keeping in mind this may not be possible w/the board software, but what if it were possible to disable the access to the FS forum for members who were on the PL or in the HoS?

 

Since the majority of the issues that result in PL and HoS nominations are the result of transactions gone bad, if Arch/techy folks had the ability to ban those members from the FS forum (and JUST that forum) until their transgressions were resolved, I think it would speak volumes.

 

B/c at the end of the day, let's face it: hitting peoples wallet gets their attention than being on a list. Just ask Ned Isakoff

 

[EC ed]

So, what do you think about something like this: Save the HOS for the super-villians as has always been the case (and we should clarify in the rules what a "multiple offender" is...for example, "3 times on the PL"...at least then it will not be ambiguous), and revise the Probation List rules to add a path to the PL via community vote (keeping the current PL path via individual nomination in place, of course)?

 

So, two ways to get on the PL:

 

1) Individual, transaction-based path, as currently implemented. If put on the PL via this route, to get off you have to satisfy the individual, just as it is done now.

 

2) Community-vote path, for someone who is not an all-timer, but needs to be censured. Would require majority vote (or something like that). If put on the PL via this path, how do you get off? Well, I could think of a few alternatives, but all would require a community vote to take you back off (perhaps after some minimum waiting period). One example: If/when the person thinks they are sufficiently rehabilitated, they can petition the community for a removal vote, and explain why they feel rehabilitated. Then, we vote. Think of it like a parole hearing.

 

Edited January 6, 2015 by edowens71

[skypinkblu]

While I'm just here for the , I had an epiphany:

 

Keeping in mind this may not be possible w/the board software, but what if it were possible to disable the access to the FS forum for members who were on the PL or in the HoS?

 

Since the majority of the issues that result in PL and HoS nominations are the result of transactions gone bad, if Arch/techy folks had the ability to ban those members from the FS forum (and JUST that forum) until their transgressions were resolved, I think it would speak volumes.

 

B/c at the end of the day, let's face it: hitting peoples wallet gets their attention than being on a list. Just ask Ned Isakoff

That would take a lot of programming and it's not going to happen. Remember we have to police the market place not the Admins.

 

Unfortunately even if it did happen, we'd have people still dealing with the people on the list voluntarily. There is a very well known member here with tons of posts, who used to put in his sales threads that he WOULD deal with people on the probation list, they just had to pay up front. I have not seen that post lately, but it was there.

 

I'm told there are also people who will deal with people on the lists in PMs.

 

Luckily (and maybe I'm being naive) I think most people don't deal with people on the lists unless it's by accident (they missed the name somehow)

 

That's about as good as it's going to get.

[Speedy-D]

psychopath

[sahy-kuh-path]

 

noun

1. a person with a psychopathic personality, which manifests as amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/psychopath

 

Setting aside for a minute the current question, one of the (big) problems I have with these modern (or post-modern) definitions, is their presumption to define in a clear cut way things like "meaningful personal relationships".

This isn't trying to define "meaningful personal relationships." They use language like that (and "extreme egocentricity") to a necessary level of vagueness, because everyone is aware that, unfortunately, there is no crystal clear, quantifiable metric readily available for purposes of diagnosis.