PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[N/A]

I would hope that any buyer would ask all pertinent questions about what they're buying. I'll use pressing as an example. Some do not want pressed books and unless the seller had it pressed then it is unlikely they would know whether it had been or not. Some claim they can tell and if something implying it had been was noted on the label then would this example be so black and white?

 

We are talking about restoration.

Are you implying we need to ask if every book is restored prior to purchase?

 

I am saying that it is the responsibility of any buyer to ask about the product they are buying. If restoration is important to a buyer then of course they should ask and not assume.

 

As a seller it is simply not possible for me to know what is important to every buyer. I understand resto may be important to the majority....maybe.

 

How do I deal with that? I offer no questions asked returns. I do tend to ask a couple questions.

 

At some point both the seller and the buyer need to have the confidence that the transaction is complete. 6 months even seems extreme to me but PayPal is enforcing that.

 

Try flipping the -script. If a buyer buys a restored book and it is graded universal label by CGC then can the seller ask for the book back?

[N/A]

yeah, that does sound kind of dumb ...

 

 

It seemed to contradict your previous response to my post so I quoted for posterity while I pondered.

 

I blame multitasking. It sort of sounded right when I was reading jimjims post, but clearly not after you quoted it. Here is where I was going:

 

 

...... assuming something not stated is a bad idea.

 

Agreed and when restoration is not noted, the book is implied to be as manufactured, with only normal wear. No need to assume otherwise.

 

Fair enough. I simply disagree. If it is important to the buyer then they should ask.

 

No need to ask when the seller posts this in the sales thread

 

the batman 19 i put it in the grading forum I think it is 4.5 or so. no resto.

 

Agreed. This discussion has moved beyond your example. I think your request is very fair and shows the kind of stand up guy that you are. I do not believe it is PL worthy given the timeline. At some point both parties need to feel confident that the transaction is complete. How do we have a thriving market place otherwise?

[InvstmntComcSuply]

I would hope that any buyer would ask all pertinent questions about what they're buying. I'll use pressing as an example. Some do not want pressed books and unless the seller had it pressed then it is unlikely they would know whether it had been or not. Some claim they can tell and if something implying it had been was noted on the label then would this example be so black and white?

 

We are talking about restoration.

Are you implying we need to ask if every book is restored prior to purchase?

 

I am saying that it is the responsibility of any buyer to ask about the product they are buying. If restoration is important to a buyer then of course they should ask and not assume.

 

Sorry, I vehemently disagree. Have there been any board decisions which have contradicted my position?

[N/A]

I would hope that any buyer would ask all pertinent questions about what they're buying. I'll use pressing as an example. Some do not want pressed books and unless the seller had it pressed then it is unlikely they would know whether it had been or not. Some claim they can tell and if something implying it had been was noted on the label then would this example be so black and white?

 

We are talking about restoration.

Are you implying we need to ask if every book is restored prior to purchase?

 

I am saying that it is the responsibility of any buyer to ask about the product they are buying. If restoration is important to a buyer then of course they should ask and not assume.

 

Sorry, I vehemently disagree. Have there been any board decisions which have contradicted my position?

 

Not sure I understand the question. Also not sure why you hold a seller completely responsible. Why wouldn't you ask?

[InvstmntComcSuply]

when restoration is not noted, the book is implied to be as manufactured, with only normal wear. No need to assume otherwise.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

And of course the end result of your position would be people having a list of questions for every purchase. Which is why it is untenable.

[CAHokie]

I can envision many problems without time limits, here's one.

 

. Let's say I sell a book to Joe Darling in 2010. I'm pretty good at resto detection and I really do think it's unrestored.

 

I'm selling because my dog/cat/goldfish/car needs an operation, I'm upfront about it.

 

I need the cash, love the book, but my dog/cat/goldfish/car are just more precious to me, I need to save them. I'm a single parent with a few kids, but I do have my comic collection, so I sell the most expensive one...Jumping Jack #1 for $2k.

 

Joe Darling flips the book 5 months later to Fred Flintstone. Joe looked at the book carefully, thinks it's unrestored.

 

Fred, is a dealer, he's pretty good at resto detection, looks at the book carefully, thinks it's unrestored. he brings it to a show to try and sell it. He sells it to Perry White.

 

Perry is thrilled, this is his first expensive book, he's used all his available cash to buy it, he gets some cash 6 months later for his birthday and decided he'd like his prize comic slabbed, he submits to CGC. Cgc takes about 3 months for the book to come back (it was fast tracked;)

 

It comes back a PLOD,It's got micro trimming, everyone who doesn't own the super special cgc fantastic microscopic whatchamacallit, missed the micro trimming.

 

Does Perry go to Fred, who goes to Joe who goes to me?

 

My poor dog/cat/car/goldfish already used up that money. I have kids who need food/toys,clothing...and an elderly dog/cat/goldfish/car I'm supporting.

 

Is it too late for ME to go to Mary Maryland, the person I bought it from? I owned it for 10 years before I sold it. She might be dead by now...

 

We are all boarders, btw...and no, I'm not drinking, just thinking;)

 

I don't love the case by case discussion idea, it gets to be a popularity thing. Probation was always pretty cut and dry.

 

 

I think I am winning you over to my side of concerns!

[Red84]

I can envision many problems without time limits, here's one.

 

. Let's say I sell a book to Joe Darling in 2010. I'm pretty good at resto detection and I really do think it's unrestored.

 

I'm selling because my dog/cat/goldfish/car needs an operation, I'm upfront about it.

 

I need the cash, love the book, but my dog/cat/goldfish/car are just more precious to me, I need to save them. I'm a single parent with a few kids, but I do have my comic collection, so I sell the most expensive one...Jumping Jack #1 for $2k.

 

Joe Darling flips the book 5 months later to Fred Flintstone. Joe looked at the book carefully, thinks it's unrestored.

 

Fred, is a dealer, he's pretty good at resto detection, looks at the book carefully, thinks it's unrestored. he brings it to a show to try and sell it. He sells it to Perry White.

 

Perry is thrilled, this is his first expensive book, he's used all his available cash to buy it, he gets some cash 6 months later for his birthday and decided he'd like his prize comic slabbed, he submits to CGC. Cgc takes about 3 months for the book to come back (it was fast tracked;)

 

It comes back a PLOD,It's got micro trimming, everyone who doesn't own the super special cgc fantastic microscopic whatchamacallit, missed the micro trimming.

 

Does Perry go to Fred, who goes to Joe who goes to me?

 

My poor dog/cat/car/goldfish already used up that money. I have kids who need food/toys,clothing...and an elderly dog/cat/goldfish/car I'm supporting.

 

Is it too late for ME to go to Mary Maryland, the person I bought it from? I owned it for 10 years before I sold it. She might be dead by now...

 

We are all boarders, btw...and no, I'm not drinking, just thinking;)

 

I don't love the case by case discussion idea, it gets to be a popularity thing. Probation was always pretty cut and dry.

 

Clearly the only solution is for you to trade your dog/cat/car/goldfish to Perry for the book back.

[N/A]

Repeating it doesn't make it true. By definition you are assuming and we both know what happens then. You are talking like it is an industry standard. If it is then you are assuming that you're dealing with someone who is aware of the standard. It's silly to not take the time to ask if it is important to you.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

Repeating it doesn't make it true. By definition you are assuming and we both know what happens then. You are talking like it is an industry standard. If it is then you are assuming that you're dealing with someone who is aware of the standard. It's silly to not take the time to ask if it is important to you.

 

It is an industry standard.

And a board standard.

[Dr Chaos]

I have a book out at cgc that I bought here in October '13. The back cover edge always looked a little suspect. If it comes back trimmed, should I expect some kind of reimbursement from the seller? Without time limits here, the arguments apply I should

 

For me this is one of the differences between a good seller and a bad seller but not probation list enforceable.

 

Isn't the probation list there to protect boardies from bad sellers?

[CAHokie]

So now that there are lifetime guarantees on resto does this extend to other issues as well? What if it took three years for me to discover a missing page that did not affect the story or writing on the bottom left hand corner of page 12 under a Charles Atlas ad. Are those covered as well?

[HarveySwick]

I can envision many problems without time limits, here's one.

 

. Let's say I sell a book to Joe Darling in 2010. I'm pretty good at resto detection and I really do think it's unrestored.

 

I'm selling because my dog/cat/goldfish/car needs an operation, I'm upfront about it.

 

I need the cash, love the book, but my dog/cat/goldfish/car are just more precious to me, I need to save them. I'm a single parent with a few kids, but I do have my comic collection, so I sell the most expensive one...Jumping Jack #1 for $2k.

 

Joe Darling flips the book 5 months later to Fred Flintstone. Joe looked at the book carefully, thinks it's unrestored.

 

Fred, is a dealer, he's pretty good at resto detection, looks at the book carefully, thinks it's unrestored. he brings it to a show to try and sell it. He sells it to Perry White.

 

Perry is thrilled, this is his first expensive book, he's used all his available cash to buy it, he gets some cash 6 months later for his birthday and decided he'd like his prize comic slabbed, he submits to CGC. Cgc takes about 3 months for the book to come back (it was fast tracked;)

 

It comes back a PLOD,It's got micro trimming, everyone who doesn't own the super special cgc fantastic microscopic whatchamacallit, missed the micro trimming.

 

Does Perry go to Fred, who goes to Joe who goes to me?

 

My poor dog/cat/car/goldfish already used up that money. I have kids who need food/toys,clothing...and an elderly dog/cat/goldfish/car I'm supporting.

 

Is it too late for ME to go to Mary Maryland, the person I bought it from? I owned it for 10 years before I sold it. She might be dead by now...

 

We are all boarders, btw...and no, I'm not drinking, just thinking

 

I don't love the case by case discussion idea, it gets to be a popularity thing. Probation was always pretty cut and dry.

 

[skypinkblu]

I wasn't sure if anyone would read that far, .

 

I did sell a book to someone who was concerned about restoration and our agreement was that it had to be checked within 2 years, but I don't think that's ordinary.

 

On the other hand, I do feel that books sold where resto is not specified are implied as not restored and if I made a mistake, or just didn't see something, I probably would refund if it's longer, but I'm not sure we can always expect that of everyone.

[Bio-Rupp]

From the same sales thread...

 

I assume you guarantee no restoration correct?

 

Absolutely.

[N/A]

And of course the end result of your position would be people having a list of questions for every purchase. Which is why it is untenable.

 

 

No.

 

 

[Dr Chaos]

I would hope that any buyer would ask all pertinent questions about what they're buying. I'll use pressing as an example. Some do not want pressed books and unless the seller had it pressed then it is unlikely they would know whether it had been or not. Some claim they can tell and if something implying it had been was noted on the label then would this example be so black and white?

 

We are talking about restoration.

Are you implying we need to ask if every book is restored prior to purchase?

 

I am saying that it is the responsibility of any buyer to ask about the product they are buying. If restoration is important to a buyer then of course they should ask and not assume.

 

As a seller it is simply not possible for me to know what is important to every buyer. I understand resto may be important to the majority....maybe.

 

How do I deal with that? I offer no questions asked returns. I do tend to ask a couple questions.

 

At some point both the seller and the buyer need to have the confidence that the transaction is complete. 6 months even seems extreme to me but PayPal is enforcing that.

 

Try flipping the -script. If a buyer buys a restored book and it is graded universal label by CGC then can the seller ask for the book back?

 

How do you know if a buyer cares if a book has been restored?

 

Given that a restored book is worth about a third or less in value of an un-restored book I would have to think that we are talking about a very small population that has no opinion on the matter.

 

Please let us know what percentage of your buyers have received a restored book from you (without you disclosing in), noticed the restoration, and let you know that they were happy with the transaction.

 

How can there be any trust between buyers and sellers if a buyer has to ask if a book has been restored before a seller feels inclined to share that information?

[N/A]

Repeating it doesn't make it true. By definition you are assuming and we both know what happens then. You are talking like it is an industry standard. If it is then you are assuming that you're dealing with someone who is aware of the standard. It's silly to not take the time to ask if it is important to you.

 

It is an industry standard.

And a board standard.

 

It may be an industry standard. It is not a board standard.

[HarveySwick]

From the same sales thread...

 

I assume you guarantee no restoration correct?

 

Absolutely.

 

[N/A]

From the same sales thread...

 

I assume you guarantee no restoration correct?

 

Absolutely.

 

Not sure what your point is.