PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[jimjum12]

I thought the debate was over whether it has OK to return a book long after the return period had elapsed. At which point is a sale final ? This just goes to show how internet perceptions can stray off topic. My policy is usually full refund for ANY reason for 2 weeks (even changing one's mind...), and up to 6 months for missed resto. After that, the book is yours. I think that's more than fair. Naturally, if it's a higher end book, there may be some compromises after that period. This is just me, but if it's important to me for a book to be blue label, I look for one already slabbed, or make special concessions before buying raw. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[InvstmntComcSuply]

We are only talking about restoration that was unknown to the seller.

 

The argument has been over the claim that: Raw books offered for sale are always implied to be unrestored, unless otherwise mentioned by the seller. Furthermore, that this is industry and board standard.

 

 

[jimjum12]

We are only talking about restoration that was unknown to the seller.

 

The argument has been over the claim that: Raw books offered for sale are always implied to be unrestored, unless otherwise mentioned by the seller. Furthermore, that this is industry and board standard.

 

 

.... I definitely understand what you're saying. Most of us here would have that expectation..... I do. Unless it's claimed in the thread to be unrestored, I still wouldn't consider it binding(...if I were the buyer). I approach each thread as a separate "establishment" and follow the terms as outlined. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[N/A]

Yes, 2 issues.

 

Timeline - which applies to Rupp's current probation nomination.

 

Resto - debate on expectation. There is no debate on whether deception is ok.

[bababooey]

Yes, 2 issues.

 

Timeline - which applies to Rupp's current probation nomination.

I think Rupp's nomination is valid and the PL list should be updated - I don't know if we need some firm time limits in general but in this instance...I don't care since there's an explicit guarantee, an AWOL seller and a reasonable buyer seeking only partial damages.

 

Resto - debate on expectation. There is no debate on whether deception is ok.

On these boards with raw books, my expectations as a buyer would be that each seller proactively disclose anything "known" that would make it non-blue - if you fail to do that then I would feel deceived.

 

I think pressing is something sellers could argue is an "ask about it if you care" issue..

...taking that stance with resto, MVS or coupon cut-outs or missing pages etc..

 

 

[N/A]

And unknown?

[comix4fun]

Yes, 2 issues.

 

Timeline - which applies to Rupp's current probation nomination.

I think Rupp's nomination is valid and the PL list should be updated - I don't know if we need some firm time limits in general but in this instance...I don't care since there's an explicit guarantee, an AWOL seller and a reasonable buyer seeking only partial damages.

 

 

 

This seems, to me, the best way of putting it given the revelation of the explicit no-resto guarantee. That adds an additional duty to the seller that might have not existed before.

 

I wouldn't support a claim for full refund with this time lapse, but the buyer isn't asking for one. The request is reasonable, extremely so.

 

The combination of seller's claim of no-resto and a buyer willing to bear a loss while being only partially reimbursed are compelling.

[HarveySwick]

Yes, 2 issues.

 

Timeline - which applies to Rupp's current probation nomination.

I think Rupp's nomination is valid and the PL list should be updated - I don't know if we need some firm time limits in general but in this instance...I don't care since there's an explicit guarantee, an AWOL seller and a reasonable buyer seeking only partial damages.

 

 

 

This seems, to me, the best way of putting it given the revelation of the explicit no-resto guarantee. That adds an additional duty to the seller that might have not existed before.

 

I wouldn't support a claim for full refund with this time lapse, but the buyer isn't asking for one. The request is reasonable, extremely so.

 

The combination of seller's claim of no-resto and a buyer willing to bear a loss while being only partially reimbursed are compelling.

 

[Doktor]

I view non-disclosure of resto or any sort of damage (missing pages, missing stamps, etc) that the seller knew about & didn't mention "because nobody asked" as a lie of omission.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect defects known to the seller to be offered to potential buyers. We require grades or scans (and in most cases, the majority of sellers offer both) for sales made here. Isn't the implication that we're already putting the onus on the seller to provide all known information? Isn't that the point of requiring scans or grades? To provide all relevant information to the buyer? Is resto or incompleteness not relevant information? Assuming the answer is "yes, resto/incompleteness is relevant information", then shouldn't that also be implied to be in the spirit of the demand for grade and/or scans.

[NP_Gresham]

Yes, 2 issues.

 

Timeline - which applies to Rupp's current probation nomination.

 

Just like zombie debt.

If in any way you acknowledge the issue, timeline re-starts at zero.

Same here, any acknowledgment what-so-ever, then it is a new day and the seller owns the problem.

[thunsicker]

I wasn't sure if anyone would read that far, .

 

I did sell a book to someone who was concerned about restoration and our agreement was that it had to be checked within 2 years, but I don't think that's ordinary.

 

On the other hand, I do feel that books sold where resto is not specified are implied as not restored and if I made a mistake, or just didn't see something, I probably would refund if it's longer, but I'm not sure we can always expect that of everyone.

 

When I bought my Daredevil #1 raw from Dave (KPR Comics) I definitely set up conditions about restoration. I then submitted it as quickly as I could. With pressing and grading (coupon) it was 3 months. I've only had one comic I bought off the boards come back restored and it was inexpensive enough and had taken long enough I just ate the costs. I think it would be good if every one just had these conversations when making the purchase. Beyond that I would think much under a year would be the cut off for refunds. It sucks that the comic came back restored, and even more that PM's were ignored. But I think this is a case of add the seller to your Do Not Purchase list and move on.

[KPR Comics]

And did it come back restored, Tim? Hmm. Hmm

[thunsicker]

Absolutely not! But you were very patient with me as it went through the process. I was mainly saying that I felt bad leaving you on the hook for 3 months. (And even worse for talking you down on the grades for the Sgt. Fury's that you were closer to than I was).

[Sqeggs]

Cgc takes about 3 months for the book to come back (it was fast tracked

 

You optimist!

[PovertyRow]

I thought the debate was over whether it has OK to return a book long after the return period had elapsed. At which point is a sale final ? This just goes to show how internet perceptions can stray off topic. My policy is usually full refund for ANY reason for 2 weeks (even changing one's mind...), and up to 6 months for missed resto. After that, the book is yours. I think that's more than fair. Naturally, if it's a higher end book, there may be some compromises after that period. This is just me, but if it's important to me for a book to be blue label, I look for one already slabbed, or make special concessions before buying raw. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Of COURSE internet perceptions can stray off topic. The very word "internet" is derived from the Latin "Interus" (interest) and "Neterius" (to move away from).

 

Yes, the debate is over the time frame concept. It does need to be addressed. It would also be a good time to go over the existing PL/HOS Rules and try to nail things down now that we've had a few years under the old rules.

 

The Rules themselves reside in a locked thread. When we first set up the existing rules I worked with Arch and he created the Sub -Forum. I posted the finished, formatted rules and Arch took it from there to put them in their existing home. So we don't want to keep making changes on the fly. We should try again to have a discussion to nail everything down, then make a single final submission to Arch for replacing the rules.

 

This is not a process we want to keep repeating as we come up with other changes. So again, a full review/discussion, including the time frame, should be done.

[KPR Comics]

Absolutely not! But you were very patient with me as it went through the process. I was mainly saying that I felt bad leaving you on the hook for 3 months. (And even worse for talking you down on the grades for the Sgt. Fury's that you were closer to than I was).

Just poking fun. That was a well structured transaction all around. Don't feel bad about the Furys, that's just gravy. You should feel bad about taking me out of Round 1 of Andy's grading contest.

[Boba]

I finally heard from him and he had a perfectly plausible story for why this happened.

However until he follows through with his promise to pay me on Monday, that's all it is is a story.

 

I would be very curious what explains away lying to someone repeatedly. Can't think of any myself.

 

He assures me it is all true. I told him that putting a check in a box without telling someone is a block-headed move, but that even I make block-headed mistakes.

But saying you're going to do something and not, repeatedly is where I draw the line.

We'll see what happens Monday.

 

Ok, I am officially checking out of this thread as the matter was resolved today when he paid me.

I love the message he sent with it - Thanks for the money when I needed it - my sentiments exactly

[Doktor]

glad you finally got paid, dude. Still lame that you had to chase the guy for a so long to finally get what you agreed to in the first place.

[Point Five]

glad you finally got paid, dude. Still lame that you had to chase the guy for a so long to finally get what you agreed to in the first place.

+1! Glad it's over for you.

 

 

[wombat]

The amazing power of the PL strikes again. Glad you got paid.