PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[jsilverjanet]

I don't mean to speak for RMA but I doubt he's defending specifically CAK shipping methods

 

I agree if the ads are no longer valid they shouldn't be considered advertising

 

For the record I do ship media, I inform my customers when I do and accept any liability if the item isn't delivered to the buyers expectation

[KPR Comics]

Reminds me of the PP personal discussion, only different.

[entalmighty1]

It's not illegal to ship comics via Media Mail.

 

 

 

Improper....in violation of USPS Rules and Regulations, a Federal Entity.

.

 

The governing document of the USPS is the Domestic Mail Manual. According to the DMM, comics aren't excluded. Advertising is excluded. Expired advertising is no longer advertising; it is reference material.

 

If I can't buy 7 giant dinosaurs for $1.00 from "Dept B3511" in NY, then there's nothing being advertised, and it's no longer an ad.

 

And the point and spirit of the restriction is clear: "Periodicals" is a special class of mail, with its own rates and programs. Here's the definition:

 

"The Periodicals class of mail is designed for newspapers, magazines, and other periodical publications whose primary purpose is transmitting information to an established list of subscribers or requesters. Periodicals must be published at regular intervals, at least four times a year from a known office of publication, and be formed of printed sheets. There are specific standards for circulation, record keeping, and advertising limits."

 

That function was fulfilled when the books were originally sent out to subscribers...that is, new comics, created and sent by the publisher of that material.

 

And since periodicals are (generally) paid for with advertising, that's part of the reason why they have their own separate category.

 

But people who ship back issues, one to another, are not fulfilling the role of the publisher, and sending out "periodicals" (that is, appearing on a regular interval) to "subscribers or requesters."

 

They have become second-hand, used material...and that's precisely what used to be 4th class, then book rate, now Media Mail, was made for.

 

"But, some of those ads are still valid!" Fine, some of them are. But the vast majority are not, and weren't intended to last indefinitely. And if the ad is expired, and is no longer advertising anything (even for products that may still exist), it's no longer an ad...it's reference material.

 

Yes, I'm well aware that someone at the USPS put a "comics are excluded" note on the website.

 

The website doesn't determine the regulations and procedures of the USPS. The DMM does. And if it's not in the DMM, it has no regulatory weight.

 

If gov't can work AGAINST us, gov't can certainly be made to work FOR us.

 

I would love to see the expressions on my local postal employees when you started explaining the spirit of the rule to them.

[comix4fun]

I don't mean to speak for RMA but I doubt he's defending specifically CAK shipping methods

 

I agree if the ads are no longer valid they shouldn't be considered advertising

 

For the record I do ship media, I inform my customers when I do and accept any liability if the item isn't delivered to the buyers expectation

 

 

I understand that. However, legitimizing any aspect of CAK's actions on this point, or debating the minutiae of any perceived technical allowance of media mail for comic sales, serve only to dilute the discussion of CAK's unreasonable delay in shipping and his subsequent weakest of weak sauce attempts to rectify that already unreasonable delay by shipping the item in the slowest, cheapest, least secure manner.

 

CAK's actions are the forest. Seeking to discuss the quality of the length of a branch on one of the trees distracts from the view in totality.

 

[wombat]

It's not illegal to ship comics via Media Mail.

 

 

 

Improper....in violation of USPS Rules and Regulations, a Federal Entity.

.

 

The governing document of the USPS is the Domestic Mail Manual. According to the DMM, comics aren't excluded. Advertising is excluded. Expired advertising is no longer advertising; it is reference material.

 

If I can't buy 7 giant dinosaurs for $1.00 from "Dept B3511" in NY, then there's nothing being advertised, and it's no longer an ad.

 

And the point and spirit of the restriction is clear: "Periodicals" is a special class of mail, with its own rates and programs. Here's the definition:

 

"The Periodicals class of mail is designed for newspapers, magazines, and other periodical publications whose primary purpose is transmitting information to an established list of subscribers or requesters. Periodicals must be published at regular intervals, at least four times a year from a known office of publication, and be formed of printed sheets. There are specific standards for circulation, record keeping, and advertising limits."

 

That function was fulfilled when the books were originally sent out to subscribers...that is, new comics, created and sent by the publisher of that material.

 

And since periodicals are (generally) paid for with advertising, that's part of the reason why they have their own separate category.

 

But people who ship back issues, one to another, are not fulfilling the role of the publisher, and sending out "periodicals" (that is, appearing on a regular interval) to "subscribers or requesters."

 

They have become second-hand, used material...and that's precisely what used to be 4th class, then book rate, now Media Mail, was made for.

 

"But, some of those ads are still valid!" Fine, some of them are. But the vast majority are not, and weren't intended to last indefinitely. And if the ad is expired, and is no longer advertising anything (even for products that may still exist), it's no longer an ad...it's reference material.

 

Yes, I'm well aware that someone at the USPS put a "comics are excluded" note on the website.

 

The website doesn't determine the regulations and procedures of the USPS. The DMM does. And if it's not in the DMM, it has no regulatory weight.

 

If gov't can work AGAINST us, gov't can certainly be made to work FOR us.

 

I would love to see the expressions on my local postal employees when you started explaining the spirit of the rule to them.

 

Yep. And then demanding no upcharge in shipping. I'm sure that would be a hoot.

[retrothecollector]

I don't mean to speak for RMA but I doubt he's defending specifically CAK shipping methods

 

I agree if the ads are no longer valid they shouldn't be considered advertising

 

For the record I do ship media, I inform my customers when I do and accept any liability if the item isn't delivered to the buyers expectation

 

 

I understand that. However, legitimizing any aspect of CAK's actions on this point, or debating the minutiae of any perceived technical allowance of media mail for comic sales, serve only to dilute the discussion of CAK's unreasonable delay in shipping and his subsequent weakest of weak sauce attempts to rectify the already unreasonable delay by shipping the item by the slowest, cheapest, least secure manner.

 

CAK's actions are the forest. Seeking to discuss the quality of the length of a branch on one of the trees distracts from the view in totality.

That's a lot of adjectives. I need a dictionary. brb

[VintageComics]

I don't mean to speak for RMA but I doubt he's defending specifically CAK shipping methods

 

I agree if the ads are no longer valid they shouldn't be considered advertising

 

For the record I do ship media, I inform my customers when I do and accept any liability if the item isn't delivered to the buyers expectation

 

 

I understand that. However, legitimizing any aspect of CAK's actions on this point, or debating the minutiae of any perceived technical allowance of media mail for comic sales, serve only to dilute the discussion of CAK's unreasonable delay in shipping and his subsequent weakest of weak sauce attempts to rectify that already unreasonable delay by shipping the item in the slowest, cheapest, least secure manner.

 

CAK's actions are the forest. Seeking to discuss the quality of the length of a branch on one of the trees distracts from the view in totality.

 

It's very possible to debate another point without allowing it to dilute the main point, which is that customer service is very important and the bigger the screw up the greater the customer service effort should be.

 

 

 

 

[jsilverjanet]

I don't mean to speak for RMA but I doubt he's defending specifically CAK shipping methods

 

I agree if the ads are no longer valid they shouldn't be considered advertising

 

For the record I do ship media, I inform my customers when I do and accept any liability if the item isn't delivered to the buyers expectation

 

 

I understand that. However, legitimizing any aspect of CAK's actions on this point, or debating the minutiae of any perceived technical allowance of media mail for comic sales, serve only to dilute the discussion of CAK's unreasonable delay in shipping and his subsequent weakest of weak sauce attempts to rectify that already unreasonable delay by shipping the item in the slowest, cheapest, least secure manner.

 

CAK's actions are the forest. Seeking to discuss the quality of the length of a branch on one of the trees distracts from the view in totality.

 

It's very possible to debate another point without allowing it to dilute the main point, which is that customer service is very important and the bigger the screw up the greater the customer service effort should be.

 

 

 

 

Agree with both statements.

 

 

[DR.X]

I don't mean to speak for RMA but I doubt he's defending specifically CAK shipping methods

 

I agree if the ads are no longer valid they shouldn't be considered advertising

 

For the record I do ship media, I inform my customers when I do and accept any liability if the item isn't delivered to the buyers expectation

 

 

I understand that. However, legitimizing any aspect of CAK's actions on this point, or debating the minutiae of any perceived technical allowance of media mail for comic sales, serve only to dilute the discussion of CAK's unreasonable delay in shipping and his subsequent weakest of weak sauce attempts to rectify that already unreasonable delay by shipping the item in the slowest, cheapest, least secure manner.

 

CAK's actions are the forest. Seeking to discuss the quality of the length of a branch on one of the trees distracts from the view in totality.

 

It's very possible to debate another point without allowing it to dilute the main point, which is that customer service is very important and the bigger the screw up the greater the customer service effort should be.

 

 

 

 

But let's be realistic here. How much effort is it to get a fricking book in the mail. Seriously.

[jsilverjanet]

I can wait one more week but the boardy is clearly ignoring my pm´s

 

sales thread

 

Is he reading and not responding? Or not even reading them?

 

Based on the link it sounds like Chasingkingkirby has had an issue with him as well

[comix4fun]

I don't mean to speak for RMA but I doubt he's defending specifically CAK shipping methods

 

I agree if the ads are no longer valid they shouldn't be considered advertising

 

For the record I do ship media, I inform my customers when I do and accept any liability if the item isn't delivered to the buyers expectation

 

 

I understand that. However, legitimizing any aspect of CAK's actions on this point, or debating the minutiae of any perceived technical allowance of media mail for comic sales, serve only to dilute the discussion of CAK's unreasonable delay in shipping and his subsequent weakest of weak sauce attempts to rectify that already unreasonable delay by shipping the item in the slowest, cheapest, least secure manner.

 

CAK's actions are the forest. Seeking to discuss the quality of the length of a branch on one of the trees distracts from the view in totality.

 

It's very possible to debate another point without allowing it to dilute the main point, which is that customer service is very important and the bigger the screw up the greater the customer service effort should be.

 

 

 

 

 

It's possible but, when you've got a seller doing wrong by a buyer, having a discussion of any perceived technical discrepancies in the US postal code within the probation discussion thread is probably not the best place to test that possibility.

[CatskillMike]

I thought forum rules for seller here is 30 days after pay. If it is an Ebay transaction, why bring it here? You don't like the slow shipping or method of Free shipping, then deal with it through Ebay? If any problems with the package or Post Office then grade/leave feedback for the seller accordingly when you receive the book, not happy then return. 'Things happen that caused delay" that given out by many people here when a buyer complained about delay of shipping from sellers at the forum and got blasted for being unreasonable. For the nominee of this case, not worth the time, not like he switched books or doing other crazy things.

 

You should read Rule 1D:

A Transaction between board members is not confined to the CGC Message Boards. Any transaction between forum members, regardless of the venue, is eligible for inclusion in the PL.

 

 

 

[Dick Pontoon]

I know.

 

I wanted to know what the OP wanted to do as far as the PL nomination.

 

 

 

Maybe CopperAgeKids has some helpful tips on that topic.

 

He's busy with some over in the Grading and Resto Issues Forum at the moment.

[greggy]

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=8948964#Post8948964

[jsilverjanet]

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=8948964#Post8948964

 

Maybe you can give him some advice

[slym2none]

I know.

 

I wanted to know what the OP wanted to do as far as the PL nomination.

 

Maybe CopperAgeKids has some helpful tips on that topic.

 

Pro-Tips™!

 

 

 

-slym

[VintageComics]

It's possible but, when you've got a seller doing wrong by a buyer, having a discussion of any perceived technical discrepancies in the US postal code within the probation discussion thread is probably not the best place to test that possibility.

 

If you're worried that someone unscrupulous might use it as a smoke screen to deflect, I agree.

 

But I'm with Janet. I agree with both points.

 

 

 

[seanfingh]

 

Hector, dork.

[VintageComics]

Hector, dork.

 

After meeting Janet several times, I agree she looks more like a Hector but it's their prerogative as to what they call themselves.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I am sure CopperAgeKids appreciates the impassioned defense of his shipping methods.

 

Did you wake up in seanfingh's bed this morning...?

 

There's no defense of CAK's shipping method. It was crappy.

 

There is only a side point, a tangent entirely unrelated to the situation.

 

There must be something in the air...maybe it's the full moon....