PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Dr. Balls]

I'm going to ask a stupid question (yes, I know everything that comes out of my mouth is stupid and therefore I don't need the qualifier) but at any point before the notes, did Bob mention anything about the stain? We know it was brought up in the thread by Finecollector but I hadn't seen anything in the PMs shown that the stain or possible stain was of any concern to Bob BEFORE he got the notes.

 

Not that it matters in most peoples eyes, but the "stain" was NEVER brought up during any of our PM's Surprisingly hardly any questions were asked.

 

As much as I don't want to use a car comparison - I think it's accurate. If I see a valuable car I want to purchase online, with plenty of photos and lengthy description - I will order a vehicle history report. Regardless of how detailed the seller's description is, problems that are disclosed from the history report of things I can't see (like major body/frame repairs, lack of maintenance, etc) - could affect the value or resale after I purchase it.

 

Grader's notes seemed to have illuminated some problems SD may not have known about. But they are there, and the staining plays a part in the grade and would likely deter the resale value down the road. I don't believe anyone is being dishonest in this situation at all.

 

I don't disagree with Bob's position - just as I would not intend to follow through on a sale of a car that looked great, ran great and was extensively described - only to find out from a third party there were severe problems that would affect it's value in comparison to other vehicles in the same condition.

 

I agree with what you said up till the end. You have already seen the photos, and the description call up the seller and say I will take it sending money tomorrow and provide all of your details. During a restless sleep you think I should check the car history, at this point you discover something that the REPUTABLE Car dealership missed or was unaware of and now want out.

 

It does not change the fact that there is still something wrong with the item that was not previously disclosed. Even if SD didn't know about it - Bob is meant to take a $16k hit because he checked grader's notes one day too late and discovered that the book has a major flaw in it? I can't agree with that.

 

Regardless of a buyer's experience, it's still up to the seller to be the expert in the transaction. The seller should have all the answers. The seller should be the most educated about the product he is selling. That's my personal philosophy. That's why I believe that Bob is in the right with his decision.

[HarveySwick]

Which is why, imo, both parties should chalk this up to lessons learned and walk away.

I agree.

 

And I think at this point, all of the arguments have been made and we're just

 

 

So I'll sit back, , and hopefully Dan and Bob can work out something.

[GIJOEISAWESOME-migration]

Which is why, imo, both parties should chalk this up to lessons learned and walk away.

I agree.

 

And I think at this point, all of the arguments have been made and we're just

 

 

So I'll sit back, , and hopefully Dan and Bob can work out something.

 

Especially me. I like horses, so I'll try and stop beating dead ones.

[bababooey]

..I believe Dan when he says he didn't see the stain.

 

 

I don't think anyone is saying he lied about it. The bugaboo is that after the fact, it was confirmed as a stain.

 

The Utopian Marketplace where all books are sold with notes hasn't been established yet.

 

I just think that we're going a bit far in absolving the buyer of responsibility when it comes to agreeing to a deal.

 

I have read all of comix4fun's posts, he makes great points but we're going too far when releasing the buyer from acting responsibly to protect himself as it relates to a defect discussed twice. If the seller answers to the best of his ability that should mean something positive, it shouldn't be something that makes every sale that occurs in the marketplace subject to buyers backing out "because...."

 

 

I wouldn't have had to make this point again if you'd responded without editing me.

 

Hopefully both of these good guys can work it out.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2014 by bababooey

[jsilverjanet]

I'm going to ask a stupid question (yes, I know everything that comes out of my mouth is stupid and therefore I don't need the qualifier) but at any point before the notes, did Bob mention anything about the stain? We know it was brought up in the thread by Finecollector but I hadn't seen anything in the PMs shown that the stain or possible stain was of any concern to Bob BEFORE he got the notes.

 

Not that it matters in most peoples eyes, but the "stain" was NEVER brought up during any of our PM's Surprisingly hardly any questions were asked.

 

As much as I don't want to use a car comparison - I think it's accurate. If I see a valuable car I want to purchase online, with plenty of photos and lengthy description - I will order a vehicle history report. Regardless of how detailed the seller's description is, problems that are disclosed from the history report of things I can't see (like major body/frame repairs, lack of maintenance, etc) - could affect the value or resale after I purchase it.

 

Grader's notes seemed to have illuminated some problems SD may not have known about. But they are there, and the staining plays a part in the grade and would likely deter the resale value down the road. I don't believe anyone is being dishonest in this situation at all.

 

I don't disagree with Bob's position - just as I would not intend to follow through on a sale of a car that looked great, ran great and was extensively described - only to find out from a third party there were severe problems that would affect it's value in comparison to other vehicles in the same condition.

 

I agree with what you said up till the end. You have already seen the photos, and the description call up the seller and say I will take it sending money tomorrow and provide all of your details. During a restless sleep you think I should check the car history, at this point you discover something that the REPUTABLE Car dealership missed or was unaware of and now want out.

 

It does not change the fact that there is still something wrong with the item that was not previously disclosed. Even if SD didn't know about it - Bob is meant to take a $16k hit because he checked grader's notes one day too late and discovered that the book has a major flaw in it? I can't agree with that.

 

Regardless of a buyer's experience, it's still up to the seller to be the expert in the transaction. The seller should have all the answers. The seller should be the most educated about the product he is selling. That's my personal philosophy. That's why I believe that Bob is in the right with his decision.

 

the other caveat is that on these boards means so much more.

 

. As a seller it makes me think I should revise my selling rules to ensure that I cover any potential issues.

 

Not sure why Dan is getting some flack from some people. Doesn't make sense why some people should make it personal with him and get upset and start accusing him of one thing or another. just because his post count is this vs that or you had a bad deal, move on, this isn't about you. Bob and him seem to be discussing via PM so lets see where that goes.

 

that being said, the majority of the posts have been outstanding. I've been impressed with some of the discussion from some of the boardies, Comix4fun sounds like he's pretty good at his job.

 

Edited January 29, 2014 by jsilverjanet

[comix4fun]

I'm going to ask a stupid question (yes, I know everything that comes out of my mouth is stupid and therefore I don't need the qualifier) but at any point before the notes, did Bob mention anything about the stain? We know it was brought up in the thread by Finecollector but I hadn't seen anything in the PMs shown that the stain or possible stain was of any concern to Bob BEFORE he got the notes.

 

Not that it matters in most peoples eyes, but the "stain" was NEVER brought up during any of our PM's Surprisingly hardly any questions were asked.

 

As much as I don't want to use a car comparison - I think it's accurate. If I see a valuable car I want to purchase online, with plenty of photos and lengthy description - I will order a vehicle history report. Regardless of how detailed the seller's description is, problems that are disclosed from the history report of things I can't see (like major body/frame repairs, lack of maintenance, etc) - could affect the value or resale after I purchase it.

 

Grader's notes seemed to have illuminated some problems SD may not have known about. But they are there, and the staining plays a part in the grade and would likely deter the resale value down the road. I don't believe anyone is being dishonest in this situation at all.

 

I don't disagree with Bob's position - just as I would not intend to follow through on a sale of a car that looked great, ran great and was extensively described - only to find out from a third party there were severe problems that would affect it's value in comparison to other vehicles in the same condition.

 

I agree with what you said up till the end. You have already seen the photos, and the description call up the seller and say I will take it sending money tomorrow and provide all of your details. During a restless sleep you think I should check the car history, at this point you discover something that the REPUTABLE Car dealership missed or was unaware of and now want out.

 

It does not change the fact that there is still something wrong with the item that was not previously disclosed. Even if SD didn't know about it - Bob is meant to take a $16k hit because he checked grader's notes one day too late and discovered that the book has a major flaw in it? I can't agree with that.

 

Regardless of a buyer's experience, it's still up to the seller to be the expert in the transaction. The seller should have all the answers. The seller should be the most educated about the product he is selling. That's my personal philosophy. That's why I believe that Bob is in the right with his decision.

 

the other caveat is that on these boards means so much more.

 

. As a seller it makes me think I should revise my selling rules to ensure that I cover any potential issues.

 

Not sure why Dan is getting some flack from some people. Doesn't make sense why some people should make it personal with him and get upset and start accusing him of one thing or another. just because his post count is this vs that or you had a bad deal, move on, this isn't about you. Bob and him seem to be discussing via PM so lets see where that goes.

 

that being said, the majority of the posts have been outstanding. I've been impressed with some of the discussion from some of the boardies, Comix4fun sounds like he's pretty good at his job.

 

 

 

[Jimmy Linguini]

So a guy placed a in my sales thread for Deadly Class Eh Variants and edited his post two days later, removing the

 

After I pointed it out to him he said he was getting the same books from a different source. I than shut down that difference source and he said he would make right on the original

 

I don't want to sell books to this guy. Ever.

 

So I'm assuming that since he said he will pay for the books I can't put him on the PL and have no further recourse?

[bababooey]

. As a seller it makes me think I should revise my selling rules to ensure that I cover any potential issues.

For someone who participates often in this thread, it did surprise me when I saw you sold under "usual rules, you know them by now..."

 

[Dr. Balls]

As a seller it makes me think I should revise my selling rules to ensure that I cover any potential issues.

 

Definitely. But that is the positive thing about these discussions - it inspires us to make some changes with how we do business, and I think that's a good thing.

 

Hopefully Dan and Bob can work it out to the point that there's no bad blood. It's just a rough situation, that has definitely shown me the importance of grader's notes.

[Bomber-Bob]

For the record, I never thought that Dan intentionally lied about the stain.

 

Upon first seeing the sales thread I knew I was interested in the book but I was concerned about that 'funny' corner. I wanted to ask about it but did not want to 'threadkrap'. Someone else asked, I saw the answer, and I believed it. It was then I approached Dan about a purchase. If you look at that original pic of the corner, with the bright flash, and angle of the pic, it was believable to me that it was the light. When I finally saw the pic in the slab, different light, different brightness, I then realized it was a problem.

[Dr. Balls]

So a guy placed a in my sales thread for Deadly Class Eh Variants and edited his post two days later, removing the

 

After I pointed it out to him he said he was getting the same books from a different source. I than shut down that difference source and he said he would make right on the original

 

I don't want to sell books to this guy. Ever.

 

So I'm assuming that since he said he will pay for the books I can't put him on the PL and have no further recourse?

 

 

I've often wondered about how something like this works. You don't want to sell to someone who tries to bend you over, then when you catch him he says: "Oh, sorry about that! I'll buy from you after all!" - is that the concept?

[Jimmy Linguini]

So a guy placed a in my sales thread for Deadly Class Eh Variants and edited his post two days later, removing the

 

After I pointed it out to him he said he was getting the same books from a different source. I than shut down that difference source and he said he would make right on the original

 

I don't want to sell books to this guy. Ever.

 

So I'm assuming that since he said he will pay for the books I can't put him on the PL and have no further recourse?

 

 

I've often wondered about how something like this works. You don't want to sell to someone who tries to bend you over, then when you catch him he says: "Oh, sorry about that! I'll buy from you after all!" - is that the concept?

 

Yes but he also suggested that he would just buy copies off me on ebay and get his money back through buyer protection, which is why I have no interested in selling anything to him ever.

 

You didn't send an invoice Friday like you said so do what you want. Just remember I tried to avoid this. Might wanna take your copies off eBay. The ones we just bought are going to arrive damaged. Thank God for buyer protection

Edited January 29, 2014 by Jimmy Linguiniii

[GIJOEISAWESOME-migration]

So a guy placed a in my sales thread for Deadly Class Eh Variants and edited his post two days later, removing the

 

After I pointed it out to him he said he was getting the same books from a different source. I than shut down that difference source and he said he would make right on the original

 

I don't want to sell books to this guy. Ever.

 

So I'm assuming that since he said he will pay for the books I can't put him on the PL and have no further recourse?

 

While he may be a scumbag you don't want to deal with, I don't think it's probation worthy.

[Spider-Dan]

So a guy placed a in my sales thread for Deadly Class Eh Variants and edited his post two days later, removing the

 

After I pointed it out to him he said he was getting the same books from a different source. I than shut down that difference source and he said he would make right on the original

 

I don't want to sell books to this guy. Ever.

 

So I'm assuming that since he said he will pay for the books I can't put him on the PL and have no further recourse?

 

While he may be a scumbag you don't want to deal with, I don't think it's probation worthy.

 

If this isn't PL worthy what is?? Why do we even have this list?

[Jeffro.]

..I believe Dan when he says he didn't see the stain.

 

 

I don't think anyone is saying he lied about it. The bugaboo is that after the fact, it was confirmed as a stain.

 

The Utopian Marketplace where all books are sold with notes hasn't been established yet.

 

I just think that we're going a bit far in absolving the buyer of responsibility when it comes to agreeing to a deal.

 

I have read all of comix4fun's posts, he makes great points but we're going too far when releasing the buyer from acting responsibly to protect himself as it relates to a defect discussed twice. If the seller answers to the best of his ability that should mean something positive, it shouldn't be something that makes every sale that occurs in the marketplace subject to buyers backing out "because...."

 

 

I wouldn't have had to make this point again if you'd responded without editing me.

 

Hopefully both of these good guys can work it out.

 

 

Next time I'll quote everything and then just bold the type I'm responding to. Better?

 

I, for one, am not absolving either. I just think there is too much gray in this particular situation to warrant Bob being added to the PL.

[comix4fun]

So a guy placed a in my sales thread for Deadly Class Eh Variants and edited his post two days later, removing the

 

After I pointed it out to him he said he was getting the same books from a different source. I than shut down that difference source and he said he would make right on the original

 

I don't want to sell books to this guy. Ever.

 

So I'm assuming that since he said he will pay for the books I can't put him on the PL and have no further recourse?

 

While he may be a scumbag you don't want to deal with, I don't think it's probation worthy.

 

If this isn't PL worthy what is?? Why do we even have this list?

 

 

It's totally probation worthy. The problem is, there's got to be a way to get off the PL for the guy. That would force Jimmy to take his payment and ship him his books. If he offers to do that and Jimmy refuses he comes off the list. Since Jimmy doesn't want to deal with him, since he's threatened to scam Jimmy, he could put him on the list but then he'd come right off when he offered to pay.

 

Jimmy's better off not dealing with him at all, and he knows that. He's certainly a wild card but the way the PL list works Jimmy would be forced to deal with him in order to follow the protocol. That's a bad idea for Jimmy.

[Spider-Dan]

So a guy placed a in my sales thread for Deadly Class Eh Variants and edited his post two days later, removing the

 

After I pointed it out to him he said he was getting the same books from a different source. I than shut down that difference source and he said he would make right on the original

 

I don't want to sell books to this guy. Ever.

 

So I'm assuming that since he said he will pay for the books I can't put him on the PL and have no further recourse?

 

While he may be a scumbag you don't want to deal with, I don't think it's probation worthy.

 

If this isn't PL worthy what is?? Why do we even have this list?

 

 

It's totally probation worthy. The problem is, there's got to be a way to get off the PL for the guy. That would force Jimmy to take his payment and ship him his books. If he offers to do that and Jimmy refuses he comes off the list. Since Jimmy doesn't want to deal with him, since he's threatened to scam Jimmy, he could put him on the list but then he'd come right off when he offered to pay.

 

Jimmy's better off not dealing with him at all, and he knows that. He's certainly a wild card but the way the PL list works Jimmy would be forced to deal with him in order to follow the protocol. That's a bad idea for Jimmy.

 

That makes sense - I see now

[Jimmy Linguini]

So a guy placed a in my sales thread for Deadly Class Eh Variants and edited his post two days later, removing the

 

After I pointed it out to him he said he was getting the same books from a different source. I than shut down that difference source and he said he would make right on the original

 

I don't want to sell books to this guy. Ever.

 

So I'm assuming that since he said he will pay for the books I can't put him on the PL and have no further recourse?

 

While he may be a scumbag you don't want to deal with, I don't think it's probation worthy.

 

If this isn't PL worthy what is?? Why do we even have this list?

 

 

It's totally probation worthy. The problem is, there's got to be a way to get off the PL for the guy. That would force Jimmy to take his payment and ship him his books. If he offers to do that and Jimmy refuses he comes off the list. Since Jimmy doesn't want to deal with him, since he's threatened to scam Jimmy, he could put him on the list but then he'd come right off when he offered to pay.

 

Jimmy's better off not dealing with him at all, and he knows that. He's certainly a wild card but the way the PL list works Jimmy would be forced to deal with him in order to follow the protocol. That's a bad idea for Jimmy.

 

I just wanted clarification.

 

Thank you for that!

[bababooey]

Better?

Yes.

 

[MrBedrock]

Not sure why Dan is getting some flack from some people. Doesn't make sense why some people should make it personal with him and get upset and start accusing him of one thing or another. just because his post count is this vs that or you had a bad deal, move on, this isn't about you. Bob and him seem to be discussing via PM so lets see where that goes.

 

Some folks might be making it personal because Dan has made it personal by nominating Bob for the probation thread, in essence questioning his personal integrity. The post count thing is stupid, but the overall tone of this discussion comes down to a set of circumstances that could have, and would have easily been resolved if the transaction had taken place between any buyer and a seller who has a less rigid relationship with their inventory and their customer. Offering any book up sight unseen, and then saying "no returns" may be the norm on eBay or from folks less experienced with conducting large deals (I'm sure Dan has sold his fair share of big books, he has had some incredible stuff). But in the long run that policy will come back to bite the seller on the butt because it invariably leads to disagreements. And the last thing any professional seller wants to do is create animosity with his customer base, even if the customer may be partially culpable. I've had buyers back out on deals for much more specious reasons then this, including a few here on the boards. If I nominated those guys for the probation thread we would possibly have a few less regulars. Bob's reason for backing out is clear. It may not be correct by the specific letter of the board rules. But it is a valid reason. Dan's policy of no returns may work for him. But in this case it is the root of the disagreement and the reason the discussion is personal and public.