PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Bosco685]

Beware incredibly over-simplified internet summaries. They only bear a scant resemblance to the full story.

 

Chris, do you remember that thread in Comics General? It was a long one, and I cannot find it. Even when I go back to 2009-2010.

[HarveySwick]

@Nick -

 

@Chris > I always try to read what you say because I respect your opinions. Can you simplify it for what you're saying. My brain is mush right now. My daughter is teething!

 

Does Heritage shill or NOT shill their auctions?

[DR.X]

I could be wrong, but was that the thread where Heritage claimed they had no knowledge of an employee shill bidding?

[comix4fun]

@Nick -

 

@Chris > I always try to read what you say because I respect your opinions. Can you simplify it for what you're saying. My brain is mush right now.

 

Does Heritage shill or NOT shill their auctions?

 

 

They don't shill. That label the lazy man's over simplification of something standard when a company owns more than one business and one business is allowed to try and buy from the other.

 

Read that court case, read the responses and the explanations from Heritage of their exact practices and then read the disclosures on the site and in their catalogs. Nick posted part of Heritage's response. That's a good place to start.

 

It became clear to me that the claims in that case were the machinations of a very disgruntled ex-employee. He attempted to make something sinister that really wasn't.

 

People who don't take the time to read it all and understand it may think it's all the same as Symbi's actions, but it's not. That's true even if they scream it with the CAPS LOCK ON!!

 

 

 

 

[comix4fun]

I could be wrong, but was that the thread where Heritage claimed they had no knowledge of an employee shill bidding?

 

 

I remember where they mentioned that any bids from N.P. came before the live auction and came with no knowledge of any proxy or max bids in place.

 

That's the "no knowledge" quote I remember.

[comix4fun]

Beware incredibly over-simplified internet summaries. They only bear a scant resemblance to the full story.

 

Chris, do you remember that thread in Comics General? It was a long one, and I cannot find it. Even when I go back to 2009-2010.

 

 

I remember it. I haven't looked for it. Was that the one with the link to the court case?

[EC ed]

Beware incredibly over-simplified internet summaries. They only bear a scant resemblance to the full story.

 

Chris, do you remember that thread in Comics General? It was a long one, and I cannot find it. Even when I go back to 2009-2010.

 

Is this it? It starts off as a thread about Pedigree, but later morphs into a discussion about Heritage...

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3773342&fpart=1

[Bosco685]

Beware incredibly over-simplified internet summaries. They only bear a scant resemblance to the full story.

 

Chris, do you remember that thread in Comics General? It was a long one, and I cannot find it. Even when I go back to 2009-2010.

 

 

I remember it. I haven't looked for it. Was that the one with the link to the court case?

 

Exactly! I think it even had that username in the subject line, and I don't remember it getting locked.

[retrothecollector]

BINGO!

 

Heritage Auction Galleries Lawsuit In The News; Claims of “Fake Bidder” N.P. Gresham, Auction Manipulation

 

N.P. Gresham

Thanks Nick! (thumbs u

 

Interesting enough, when you can find it on here, it is fellow forumites joking about bidding on a Golden Age book, and hoping N.P. Gresham leaves it alone.

 

Funny and off topic, but I would never buy anything that had a buyers premium added to the price.

[Bosco685]

Beware incredibly over-simplified internet summaries. They only bear a scant resemblance to the full story.

 

Chris, do you remember that thread in Comics General? It was a long one, and I cannot find it. Even when I go back to 2009-2010.

 

Is this it? It starts off as a thread about Pedigree, but later morphs into a discussion about Heritage...

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3773342&fpart=1

 

There was a dedicated thread to the topic that started with a link to the court case which made the news. I think it had the username in the subject line.

 

But let me scan this thread you found and see what we have going on. It was good reading.

 

Now I can see some of what Chris is talking about, as at first hearing the "N.P. Gresham" name it came across as created for nothing more than shilling. I've never happened across a company creating fake names for anything other than software test cases, so it was quite interesting.

[comix4fun]

BINGO!

 

Heritage Auction Galleries Lawsuit In The News; Claims of “Fake Bidder” N.P. Gresham, Auction Manipulation

 

N.P. Gresham

Thanks Nick! (thumbs u

 

Interesting enough, when you can find it on here, it is fellow forumites joking about bidding on a Golden Age book, and hoping N.P. Gresham leaves it alone.

 

Funny and off topic, but I would never buy anything that had a buyers premium added to the price.

 

 

 

I had a buddy who used to get all bent about BP's too.

 

If you just bid with that amount added into your calculations already you don't pay a penny more than you want to, and you don't miss out on the pieces offered by almost every major live auction house in the country.

[retrothecollector]

BINGO!

 

Heritage Auction Galleries Lawsuit In The News; Claims of “Fake Bidder” N.P. Gresham, Auction Manipulation

 

N.P. Gresham

Thanks Nick! (thumbs u

 

Interesting enough, when you can find it on here, it is fellow forumites joking about bidding on a Golden Age book, and hoping N.P. Gresham leaves it alone.

 

Funny and off topic, but I would never buy anything that had a buyers premium added to the price.

 

 

 

I had a buddy who used to get all bent about BP's too.

 

If you just bid with that amount added into your calculations already you don't pay a penny more than you want to, and you don't miss out on the pieces offered by almost every major live auction house in the country.

I hear ya. I've probably always over paid for things before anyways so I guess what's the difference. I'm learning though.

[comix4fun]

BINGO!

 

Heritage Auction Galleries Lawsuit In The News; Claims of “Fake Bidder” N.P. Gresham, Auction Manipulation

 

N.P. Gresham

Thanks Nick! (thumbs u

 

Interesting enough, when you can find it on here, it is fellow forumites joking about bidding on a Golden Age book, and hoping N.P. Gresham leaves it alone.

 

Funny and off topic, but I would never buy anything that had a buyers premium added to the price.

 

 

 

I had a buddy who used to get all bent about BP's too.

 

If you just bid with that amount added into your calculations already you don't pay a penny more than you want to, and you don't miss out on the pieces offered by almost every major live auction house in the country.

I hear ya. I've probably always over paid for things before anyways so I guess what's the difference. I'm learning though.

 

 

In the old days of live bidding you had to do all the math yourself and I'd usually screw it up and not realize how much I was spending. With the advent of online bidding most places make it easy and hand you what the max bid with BP is so I never look at the raw bid any more. That's saved me from myself.

[HarveySwick]

I had a buddy who used to get all bent about BP's too.

 

If you just bid with that amount added into your calculations already you don't pay a penny more than you want to, and you don't miss out on the pieces offered by almost every major live auction house in the country.

This is what I've been doing. Just factoring it into my max bid. I just want to do some more reading on them shilling. I've bought a lot from them before and if this is even remotely true, I'm eliminating the bookmark to their site. I'll get my cool books elsewhere!

[EC ed]

There was a dedicated thread to the topic that started with a link to the court case which made the news. I think it had the username in the subject line.

 

Here's a short one: http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3454212&fpart=1

Edited February 2, 2014 by edowens71

[aszumilo]

There was a dedicated thread to the topic that started with a link to the court case which made the news. I think it had the username in the subject line.

 

Here's a short one: http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3454212&fpart=1

 

Here's another short one

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=67513

[Bosco685]

There was a dedicated thread to the topic that started with a link to the court case which made the news. I think it had the username in the subject line.

 

Here's a short one: http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3454212&fpart=1

 

Here's another short one

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=67513

 

The case came up in 2009-2010. So the second thread would be far too early.

 

The first thread - - no comic collector of class would go there.

 

[oakman29]

@Nick -

 

@Chris > I always try to read what you say because I respect your opinions. Can you simplify it for what you're saying. My brain is mush right now.

 

Does Heritage shill or NOT shill their auctions?

 

 

They don't shill. That label the lazy man's over simplification of something standard when a company owns more than one business and one business is allowed to try and buy from the other.

 

Read that court case, read the responses and the explanations from Heritage of their exact practices and then read the disclosures on the site and in their catalogs. Nick posted part of Heritage's response. That's a good place to start.

 

It became clear to me that the claims in that case were the machinations of a very disgruntled ex-employee. He attempted to make something sinister that really wasn't.

 

People who don't take the time to read it all and understand it may think it's all the same as Symbi's actions, but it's not. That's true even if they scream it with the CAPS LOCK ON!!

 

 

 

Thanks brother for clearing that up.I didn't think it would be possible for Steve Borock to be affiliated with anything shady.

[Jeffro.]

But Symbiotic is NOT on the PL list. He's just done some shady stuff that a lot of board members won't deal with him. But he is still NOT on there.

 

True of course.

However, there are sellers here who, through their day to day board actions and conduct, I would never deal with. These are sellers who are not on the PL.

[Jeffro.]

It does bring up a good question. If everyone is so against shilling here, then why do you continue to buy and support Heritage?

 

Speedy D it's your turn.

Sorry m'man, I've never bought from Heritage. I can't get past that damn BP.

 

Buyer's premium is no big deal. Lots of boardies say so. Just figure the cost into your bid.