PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[crassus]

I agree that there is no point or reason to speculation about his mental health. I think the only reason it is being discussed is due to the fact that some continue to try to defend what he has done and continues to do because of mental health issues. I think it is an absolute slap in the face and insult to those really suffering from mental health issues and depression. I have plenty of loved ones with serious clinical depression spanning decades and some with other forms of mental health illness. None have continually ripped off and scammed others and they've never used their issues to their benefit. It's a terrible burden they had to shoulder and live with and many do it silently. To screw people over and declare "I have a mental illness" in defense is repulsive. And those that defend him or provide some sort of "poor Chip" and try to sway others because you personally have been played as a fool,

 

My bold above. The problem is not people trying to "defend what he has done". No single person has posted defending any of his actions. For me, the problem with the discussion of mental illness is that the only source we have for the existence of his alleged mental illness is Chip.

 

Ok. Not "defend what he has done", but make excuses for and try to mitigate what he has done and rebuke and turn down the level of criticism thrown his way.

 

Fair enough. I think it will always be a moving line where understanding gives way to judgment, for each person will feel slightly different about where the line is crossed. I think despite those differences of opinion it is pretty clear that the consensus is now for judgment, and that it is the right thing for the good of the community.

[crassus]

Voted.

 

I never got a "good vibe" from Chip...It always seemed like he was using his family as an "angle" just like how he uses a pic of his daughter as his avatar.

 

Regardless of the "root cause" of his "problems", whether it be a mental illness or him just being a , the result is the same, he has shown a pattern of deception and inability and/or unwillingness to live up to his responsibilities. He knows what is right and what is wrong. That is all that should matter.

 

 

My bold above. Thank you for saying that. I had felt that way from the moment I first saw it but kept it to myself. I know what you mean by "an angle" and another way of seeing it is "disarming", or a way to "disarm" the potential sceptic. I do not mean this to sound as mean as it may, but I sometimes felt with Chip's Boards presence that I was engaged in a kind of psychological warfare, a sustained and carefully planned offensive to overwhelm my natural scepticism, my first line of defense, to win me over to whatever the latest crisis situation required. I am not usually so blunt, but frankly that is how I feel when I see that avatar.

[Logan510]

Voted.

 

I never got a "good vibe" from Chip...It always seemed like he was using his family as an "angle" just like how he uses a pic of his daughter as his avatar.

 

Regardless of the "root cause" of his "problems", whether it be a mental illness or him just being a , the result is the same, he has shown a pattern of deception and inability and/or unwillingness to live up to his responsibilities. He knows what is right and what is wrong. That is all that should matter.

 

 

My bold above. Thank you for saying that. I had felt that way from the moment I first saw it but kept it to myself. I know what you mean by "an angle" and another way of seeing it is "disarming", or a way to "disarm" the potential sceptic. I do not mean this to sound as mean as it may, but I sometimes felt with Chip's Boards presence that I was engaged in a kind of psychological warfare, a sustained and carefully planned offensive to overwhelm my natural scepticism, my first line of defense, to win me over to whatever the latest crisis situation required. I am not usually so blunt, but frankly that is how I feel when I see that avatar.

 

 

So I guess his starting virtually every sales thread with variations of " If I don't sell this stuff I'm going to be homeless", didn't clue you in?

[comix4fun]

Voted.

 

I never got a "good vibe" from Chip...It always seemed like he was using his family as an "angle" just like how he uses a pic of his daughter as his avatar.

 

Regardless of the "root cause" of his "problems", whether it be a mental illness or him just being a , the result is the same, he has shown a pattern of deception and inability and/or unwillingness to live up to his responsibilities. He knows what is right and what is wrong. That is all that should matter.

 

 

My bold above. Thank you for saying that. I had felt that way from the moment I first saw it but kept it to myself. I know what you mean by "an angle" and another way of seeing it is "disarming", or a way to "disarm" the potential skeptic. I do not mean this to sound as mean as it may, but I sometimes felt with Chip's Boards presence that I was engaged in a kind of psychological warfare, a sustained and carefully planned offensive to overwhelm my natural skepticism, my first line of defense, to win me over to whatever the latest crisis situation required. I am not usually so blunt, but frankly that is how I feel when I see that avatar.

 

 

Short version....

 

 

 

 

 

[comix4fun]

Voted.

 

I never got a "good vibe" from Chip...It always seemed like he was using his family as an "angle" just like how he uses a pic of his daughter as his avatar.

 

Regardless of the "root cause" of his "problems", whether it be a mental illness or him just being a , the result is the same, he has shown a pattern of deception and inability and/or unwillingness to live up to his responsibilities. He knows what is right and what is wrong. That is all that should matter.

 

 

My bold above. Thank you for saying that. I had felt that way from the moment I first saw it but kept it to myself. I know what you mean by "an angle" and another way of seeing it is "disarming", or a way to "disarm" the potential skeptic. I do not mean this to sound as mean as it may, but I sometimes felt with Chip's Boards presence that I was engaged in a kind of psychological warfare, a sustained and carefully planned offensive to overwhelm my natural skepticism, my first line of defense, to win me over to whatever the latest crisis situation required. I am not usually so blunt, but frankly that is how I feel when I see that avatar.

 

 

Short version....

 

 

 

 

 

 

and/or

 

[Buzzetta]

 

Geek Trivia time / nerd alert time

 

The guy holding Carrie Fisher is Jeremy Bulloch, the actor who played Boba Fett.

[HarveySwick]

[VintageComics]

I agree that there is no point or reason to speculation about his mental health. I think the only reason it is being discussed is due to the fact that some continue to try to defend what he has done and continues to do because of mental health issues. I think it is an absolute slap in the face and insult to those really suffering from mental health issues and depression. I have plenty of loved ones with serious clinical depression spanning decades and some with other forms of mental health illness. None have continually ripped off and scammed others and they've never used their issues to their benefit. It's a terrible burden they had to shoulder and live with and many do it silently. To screw people over and declare "I have a mental illness" in defense is repulsive. And those that defend him or provide some sort of "poor Chip" and try to sway others because you personally have been played as a fool,

 

My bold above. The problem is not people trying to "defend what he has done". No single person has posted defending any of his actions. For me, the problem with the discussion of mental illness is that the only source we have for the existence of his alleged mental illness is Chip.

 

Ok. Not "defend what he has done", but make excuses for and try to mitigate what he has done and rebuke and turn down the level of criticism thrown his way.

 

Nobody tried to 'turn down' anything.

 

All I (or anyone else who was willing to be patient and reasonable) wanted was to make sure that we were proceeding on the straight and narrow and acting on facts and not emotions.

 

I shudder at the thought of having a jury decide my future based on the way this thread has taken it's turns.

 

And judging by the PMs I'm getting I'm not the only one.

 

Yes, Chip looks very guilty. Yes some of you were right. No, the way we got there was not very cool.

 

 

[HarveySwick]

[Logan510]

 

That gif expresses exactly how I felt after reading the post directly above it

[greggy]

I'm sure one of his enablers will be blasting you for this. If not here, then perhaps on wookiebuttplugs.net or whatever website they commiserate on.

 

Ricky

 

If you are referring to me, there is no enabling.

 

Coming from a history of mental illness, I thought the name calling and torch lighting was in poor taste.

 

I don't think anybody (including myself) denied that Chip should be held accountable for his actions.

 

I don't see any enabling. Do you?

Yes, I do think you're enabling his actions, both by sending him comics to sell at a time when he should be looking for a real job, and by defending his behavior. And by saying "I think he's wrong, but..." You most definitely are defending his actions.

 

I respect the fact that he's your friend, and that you choose to see the good in any situation, but how can you defend him looking to buy toys at a time when he's claiming that he's destitute? He should be looking for work, signing up for a class to learn some skills...Not looking to buy the limited edition Leia with camel toe action figure.

 

I guess the people that sent him checks should sit and spin while he uses their money to buy another bandaid for the bullet hole that is his life, because who could possibly pass up a deal like that?! Yuck.

 

As for his "mental illness", did he show you medical records? Or are you taking his word for it? Because speaking only for myself, his word means mess. I also have people in my life that suffer from mental illness, and I think it's disgusting that someone would toss that out there as an excuse to swindle people. I see what they go through, and what the people around them go through. You know as well as I do, there's a difference between clinical depression and "feeling depressed".

 

 

This will be my last post on the topic as I think we're going in circles (and this is a reply to all who feel I'm defending the indefensible).

 

I no longer use Chip. The last time I offered for Chip to sell my books for me was earlier this year.

 

At the time I felt he could genuinely use the help and I'd rather throw a lifesaver and be wrong than not try to help and be wrong.

 

Chip is a friend in the sense that many board members are friends. We've interacted over the years, we've talked on the phone, we've emailed many times and we've never met.

 

And while I was speaking about [possible] mental illness, I preferred to keep the adjectives, name calling, posturing etc to a minimum. Being that mental illness is a subject that is close to home for me I'd rather err on the side of caution rather than just call someone names on the internet. I think it's the mature thing to do.

 

Did I speak to his doctor? No. I didn't launch a full scale investigation. I'm too busy to micro manage someone on the other side of the continent when I have 6 kids and a small business to worry about. I spoke to the hospital he was checked into and left it at that.

 

@ Comix4fun, yes I did leave that part out. I wasn't trying to make any excuses for it. It's my opinion that mental health can affect things like coping mechanisms, communication with other people, digging yourself out of a hole you've dug yourself into and just routine things that we all take for granted.

 

I'm not saying that Chip is necessarily mentally ill at thjs point, or making excuses for him, I'm just saying that it's a possibility. How do I know? Because I used to have the same issues 12 years ago. When money was tight for me I used to have anxiety about getting back to people in a timely manner. As I said in the Jimbo707 discussion, people are complicated. Not everything that is straight forward to you is straightforward to everyone.,

 

@ Chrisco - I just thought the name calling was over the top. Other than that I agree (and have from the start) that he needs to be held accountable for his actions.

 

If his behavior falls into HOS or PL territory then he should go in there.

 

And if Chip reads this, a very important lesson I learned [often the hard way] is that it's not the big things you do once in a while that define you, it's the little things you do all the time.

[wombat]

I agree that there is no point or reason to speculation about his mental health. I think the only reason it is being discussed is due to the fact that some continue to try to defend what he has done and continues to do because of mental health issues. I think it is an absolute slap in the face and insult to those really suffering from mental health issues and depression. I have plenty of loved ones with serious clinical depression spanning decades and some with other forms of mental health illness. None have continually ripped off and scammed others and they've never used their issues to their benefit. It's a terrible burden they had to shoulder and live with and many do it silently. To screw people over and declare "I have a mental illness" in defense is repulsive. And those that defend him or provide some sort of "poor Chip" and try to sway others because you personally have been played as a fool,

 

My bold above. The problem is not people trying to "defend what he has done". No single person has posted defending any of his actions. For me, the problem with the discussion of mental illness is that the only source we have for the existence of his alleged mental illness is Chip.

 

Ok. Not "defend what he has done", but make excuses for and try to mitigate what he has done and rebuke and turn down the level of criticism thrown his way.

 

Nobody tried to 'turn down' anything.

 

All I (or anyone else who was willing to be patient and reasonable) wanted was to make sure that we were proceeding on the straight and narrow and acting on facts and not emotions.

 

I shudder at the thought of having a jury decide my future based on the way this thread has taken it's turns.

 

And judging by the PMs I'm getting I'm not the only one.

 

Yes, Chip looks very guilty. Yes some of you were right. No, the way we got there was not very cool.

 

 

You can't even bring yourself to say he is guilty now.

[Buzzetta]

I agree that there is no point or reason to speculation about his mental health. I think the only reason it is being discussed is due to the fact that some continue to try to defend what he has done and continues to do because of mental health issues. I think it is an absolute slap in the face and insult to those really suffering from mental health issues and depression. I have plenty of loved ones with serious clinical depression spanning decades and some with other forms of mental health illness. None have continually ripped off and scammed others and they've never used their issues to their benefit. It's a terrible burden they had to shoulder and live with and many do it silently. To screw people over and declare "I have a mental illness" in defense is repulsive. And those that defend him or provide some sort of "poor Chip" and try to sway others because you personally have been played as a fool,

 

My bold above. The problem is not people trying to "defend what he has done". No single person has posted defending any of his actions. For me, the problem with the discussion of mental illness is that the only source we have for the existence of his alleged mental illness is Chip.

 

Ok. Not "defend what he has done", but make excuses for and try to mitigate what he has done and rebuke and turn down the level of criticism thrown his way.

 

Nobody tried to 'turn down' anything.

 

All I (or anyone else who was willing to be patient and reasonable) wanted was to make sure that we were proceeding on the straight and narrow and acting on facts and not emotions.

 

I shudder at the thought of having a jury decide my future based on the way this thread has taken it's turns.

 

And judging by the PMs I'm getting I'm not the only one.

 

Yes, Chip looks very guilty. Yes some of you were right. No, the way we got there was not very cool.

 

 

Years of nonsense that has bled its way into the forums here. These are repeated actions across multiple decades.

 

Roy I do see your point of view on this one and usually I would say that we should give people the benefit of the doubt. However, the more evidence that we have uncovered of similar actions that Chip has engaged in since 1994 (if not earlier) indicate that this is not an individual that should enjoy the privilege of engaging in any type of business transaction here.

 

I do not invite a fox into the hen house to see if they will play nicely. I know that the fox cannot help himself, will take advantage of the situation and eat one of the hens.

 

Chip for whatever reason is a fox. We are the hens. This is a repeated, systemic, practice of actions across multiple boards, forums, groups and what have you. Chip has engaged in questionable activities documented as far back as 1994. The trend seems to be that he takes a bunch of money for things, doesn't fulfill his obligations, he gets bashed by a board and heads somewhere else to set up shop all the while portraying a whoa is me act.

 

I read a lot of messages from a lot of unconnected individuals and they all seem to echo the same experience. Why should this go unscathed? Because he claims that he suffers from certain obstacles?

 

I take the subway every morning out of Penn Station to head downtown and then across into Brooklyn. Sometimes I am there as early as 6:15 before the police have had the opportunity to secure the area. There are a couple of homeless individuals who scream and shout and yell and carry on.

 

Now, "there but go I before the grace of God" as my mom says. Basically, speaking, you never know had things worked out differently, that could be me. I am concerned for these people and I honestly feel humble and remorseful for their condition in life.

 

However, there is no frigging way I am standing near the edge of the platform when they are around as I never want to be in the news as another statistic.

 

It is time for Chip to go.

 

It is time for him to move on.

[topofthetotem]

What a scatamonious load of tripe.

[Logan510]

What a scatamonious load of tripe.

 

Context?

[sacentaur]

Roy, I think it's admirable that you consistently try to be the moral conscience of the board, but unfortunately all too often you conveniently overlook the facts or even worse you don't understand the facts at all.

 

Recently in another thread, completely out of the blue, you inexplicably came to the defense of the most moderated member of this board and it was very clear that you had no clue in regards to the totality of the circumstances.

 

Hence the backlash you often receive - such unreasonable altruism is destined to generate negative comments from those you annoy by repeatedly injecting yourself into these types of situations.

 

This isn't a witch-hunt against Chip, it's a collective expression of frustration combined with a desire to finally gain some measure of justice.

[topofthetotem]

What a scatamonious load of tripe.

 

Context?

See who I replied to. Edited January 2, 2017 by topofthetotem

[greggy]

What a scatamonious load of tripe.

 

Context?

See who I replayed to.

Casey is slow

[Logan510]

What a scatamonious load of tripe.

 

Context?

See who I replayed to.

 

You didn't quote anyone and I didn't want to assume

[jsilverjanet]

What a scatamonious load of tripe.

 

Context?

See who I replayed to.

Casey is slow

 

He says the same about you