PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[thehumantorch]

I agree that there is no point or reason to speculation about his mental health. I think the only reason it is being discussed is due to the fact that some continue to try to defend what he has done and continues to do because of mental health issues. I think it is an absolute slap in the face and insult to those really suffering from mental health issues and depression. I have plenty of loved ones with serious clinical depression spanning decades and some with other forms of mental health illness. None have continually ripped off and scammed others and they've never used their issues to their benefit. It's a terrible burden they had to shoulder and live with and many do it silently. To screw people over and declare "I have a mental illness" in defense is repulsive. And those that defend him or provide some sort of "poor Chip" and try to sway others because you personally have been played as a fool,

 

My bold above. The problem is not people trying to "defend what he has done". No single person has posted defending any of his actions. For me, the problem with the discussion of mental illness is that the only source we have for the existence of his alleged mental illness is Chip.

 

Ok. Not "defend what he has done", but make excuses for and try to mitigate what he has done and rebuke and turn down the level of criticism thrown his way.

 

Nobody tried to 'turn down' anything.

 

All I (or anyone else who was willing to be patient and reasonable) wanted was to make sure that we were proceeding on the straight and narrow and acting on facts and not emotions.

 

I shudder at the thought of having a jury decide my future based on the way this thread has taken it's turns.

 

And judging by the PMs I'm getting I'm not the only one.

 

Yes, Chip looks very guilty. Yes some of you were right. No, the way we got there was not very cool.

 

 

The way we got here was indeed not very cool. We got here because Chip has spent his adult life failing to deliver and preying on those who want to help. We got here because Chip is a master at playing the pity card and milking a community until he's no longer welcome. We got here because we were trying to help and looked the other way when he let us down.

 

Where's your outrage for boardies who are out books? Some of the people who're out books donated to his charity thread and Chip thanks them by failing to ship and by ignoring their pms. I'd imagine many of the buyers did so out of a sense of community and in an attempt to help. Shouldn't they be angry.

 

And if you're referring to the HOS process what did we do wrong? A logical post was written and a poll is underway. Sure, there are some angry posts here but that's to be expected when behavior like this comes to light.

[Logan510]

I don't think he cared for the Craigslist "entrapment". More so the person who perpetrated it.

[MetalPSI]

]

Roy, I think it's admirable that you consistently try to be the moral conscience of the board, but unfortunately all too often you conveniently overlook the facts or even worse you don't understand the facts at all.

 

Recently in another thread, completely out of the blue, you inexplicably came to the defense of the most moderated member of this board and it was very clear that you had no clue in regards to the totality of the circumstances.

 

Hence the backlash you often receive - such unreasonable altruism is destined to generate negative comments from those you annoy by repeatedly injecting yourself into these types of situations.

 

This isn't a witch-hunt against Chip, it's a collective expression of frustration combined with a desire to finally gain some measure of justice.

 

Nailed it. 100% nailed it.

But is that "patient and reasonable" enough for Roy?

 

 

I thought that comment was a load of BS. I'm not one to make snap decisions (at least, I don't think I am). I try to see both sides of a situation before I come to my conclusion. I had seen more than enough over the years regarding Chip. I'm not a big fan of the "whoa is me" act.

 

As I said to someone else in a PM, no less, there always was some issue, always some problem, always drama. But one common denominator.

 

 

WOE

[comix4fun]

I don't think he cared for the Craigslist "entrapment". More so the person who perpetrated it.

 

 

 

Personally, I've been forced to be far more direct and strident than I'd normally be in this type of situation.

 

I say "forced" because that's exactly that's exactly what we've been pushed to in order to state the case in an unambiguous and wiggle-room-free way. It's been demonstrated that any half measures, or tip-toeing, or treading lightly to preserve anyone's feelings is exactly the type of thing that's led us to continually dealing with this particular person over this extended length of time instead of doing what should have been done months ago.

 

Subtlety and deference are the shadows manipulators hide within. That time has passed.

 

The issue with the craigslist ad isn't material for the dollar amounts or specifics but as an illustration of how the excuses of being out of contact, unable to ship items paid for months ago, and all the other tragedies were washed away and replaced with the truth when a small carrot was dangled in front of him. Regardless of who carried it out or how it was carried out, it would be foolish of any of us to not take the information gleaned from it.

[Buzzetta]

I don't think he cared for the Craigslist "entrapment". More so the person who perpetrated it.

 

That is why when Brock came to me and asked, I not only agreed with it, I encouraged it. I even fine tuned part of the Craigslist listing.

 

Brock's hesitation was not in the action of 'seeing what would happen and who would respond to that Craigslist ad' it was along the lines of 'if I do this, it will be looked down upon because it is coming from me.'

 

That is why I publicly stated that I knew what was going on beforehand, what the results were, and that I supported it. It is also why the HOS nomination came from me.

 

This really has nothing to do with Brock (and I know you see that Casey - this is a message for others who are reading). If you take Brock's name out of it, and just put my name, or any other boardie's name, the results are the same.

 

Chip is still actively looking online for buying opportunities with other people's money or money he claims he does not have.

[MetalPSI]

I don't think he cared for the Craigslist "entrapment". More so the person who perpetrated it.

 

 

 

Personally, I've been forced to be far more direct and strident than I'd normally be in this type of situation.

 

I say "forced" because that's exactly that's exactly what we've been pushed to in order to state the case in an unambiguous and wiggle-room-free way. It's been demonstrated that any half measures, or tip-toeing, or treading lightly to preserve anyone's feelings is exactly the type of thing that's led us to continually dealing with this particular person over this extended length of time instead of doing what should have been done months ago.

 

Subtlety and deference are the shadows manipulators hide within. That time has passed.

 

The issue with the craigslist ad isn't material for the dollar amounts or specifics but as an illustration of how the excuses of being out of contact, unable to ship items paid for months ago, and all the other tragedies were washed away and replaced with the truth when a small carrot was dangled in front of him. Regardless of who carried it out or how it was carried out, it would be foolish of any of us to not take the information gleaned from it.

 

Yup. And people are labeled against society or culture for displaying level headed, against the wave, unpolitically correct views.

 

Burn down Hot Topic already....

 

[Red84]

I don't think he cared for the Craigslist "entrapment". More so the person who perpetrated it.

 

 

 

Personally, I've been forced to be far more direct and strident than I'd normally be in this type of situation.

 

I say "forced" because that's exactly that's exactly what we've been pushed to in order to state the case in an unambiguous and wiggle-room-free way. It's been demonstrated that any half measures, or tip-toeing, or treading lightly to preserve anyone's feelings is exactly the type of thing that's led us to continually dealing with this particular person over this extended length of time instead of doing what should have been done months ago.

 

Subtlety and deference are the shadows manipulators hide within. That time has passed.

 

The issue with the craigslist ad isn't material for the dollar amounts or specifics but as an illustration of how the excuses of being out of contact, unable to ship items paid for months ago, and all the other tragedies were washed away and replaced with the truth when a small carrot was dangled in front of him. Regardless of who carried it out or how it was carried out, it would be foolish of any of us to not take the information gleaned from it.

 

Yup. And people are labeled against society or culture for displaying level headed, against the wave, unpolitically correct views.

 

Burn down Hot Topic already....

 

 

That is one of my 5 favorite South Park episodes.

[MetalPSI]

I love all the Goth and Craig heavy episodes

[Red84]

I love all the Goth and Craig heavy episodes

 

The goth kids and Randy!

[VintageComics]

You can't even bring yourself to say he is guilty now.

 

It's a holiday weekend and I've not taken the time to read all of the posts or the links to Chip's previous behavior. That's why I said he is looking very guilty to me.

 

But I do trust in the decision making of my peers and if he needs to be put in the HOS or PL or both I support them in that.

 

Isn't that the way things generally work around here?

 

Or does everyone need to shout out 'off with his head' to be accepted as a member of this group?

 

 

[VintageComics]

Roy, I think it's admirable that you consistently try to be the moral conscience of the board, but unfortunately all too often you conveniently overlook the facts or even worse you don't understand the facts at all.

 

Recently in another thread, completely out of the blue, you inexplicably came to the defense of the most moderated member of this board and it was very clear that you had no clue in regards to the totality of the circumstances.

 

Hence the backlash you often receive - such unreasonable altruism is destined to generate negative comments from those you annoy by repeatedly injecting yourself into these types of situations.

 

This isn't a witch-hunt against Chip, it's a collective expression of frustration combined with a desire to finally gain some measure of justice.

 

And I still disagree with you and with moderation about RMA.

 

RMA is being over moderated because he won't stop talking but the flip side is that other people won't stop talking to him either.

 

It's ludicrous that people can make fun of the guy, poke him in the eye, call him names and talk smack about him but RMA gets the rod.

 

I don't care about a backlash. If I did I would post things contrary to what other people believe.

 

I do think it's important to point out when people turn from factual conversation to personal conversation.

 

I'm a dove, not a hawk. I prefer a gentle touch rather than a hammer to solve issues. If someone disagrees with my approach I'm OK with it.

 

 

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

 

I love you.

[wombat]

You can't even bring yourself to say he is guilty now.

 

It's a holiday weekend and I've not taken the time to read all of the posts or the links to Chip's previous behavior. That's why I said he is looking very guilty to me.

 

But I do trust in the decision making of my peers and if he needs to be put in the HOS or PL or both I support them in that.

 

Isn't that the way things generally work around here?

 

Or does everyone need to shout out 'off with his head' to be accepted as a member of this group?

 

 

You have zero choice but to trust in the decision making of your peers in this case. It's a vote. What exactly would you do if you didn't have that trust? And how exactly are you "supporting" that? You seem to be doing the opposite.

[VintageComics]

I simply asked people to be factual rather than emotional because mental illness is a possibility.

 

If you want to throw a grenade because it makes you feel better rather than just say he's guilty and vote, go ahead.

 

Back later, I guess.

 

[BeachBum]

Sometimes you just need to "throw a grenade" to stop someone's BS.

[wombat]

I simply asked people to be factual rather than emotional because mental illness is a possibility.

 

If you want to throw a grenade because it makes you feel better rather than just say he's guilty and vote, go ahead.

 

Back later, I guess.

 

 

Ripping people off makes them emotional. Ripping off your friends makes people emotional.

 

 

[Logan510]

Roy, I think it's admirable that you consistently try to be the moral conscience of the board, but unfortunately all too often you conveniently overlook the facts or even worse you don't understand the facts at all.

 

Recently in another thread, completely out of the blue, you inexplicably came to the defense of the most moderated member of this board and it was very clear that you had no clue in regards to the totality of the circumstances.

 

Hence the backlash you often receive - such unreasonable altruism is destined to generate negative comments from those you annoy by repeatedly injecting yourself into these types of situations.

 

This isn't a witch-hunt against Chip, it's a collective expression of frustration combined with a desire to finally gain some measure of justice.

 

And I still disagree with you and with moderation about RMA.

 

RMA is being over moderated because he won't stop talking but the flip side is that other people won't stop talking to him either.

 

It's ludicrous that people can make fun of the guy, poke him in the eye, call him names and talk smack about him but RMA gets the rod.

 

I don't care about a backlash. If I did I would post things contrary to what other people believe.

 

I do think it's important to point out when people turn from factual conversation to personal conversation.

 

I'm a dove, not a hawk. I prefer a gentle touch rather than a hammer to solve issues. If someone disagrees with my approach I'm OK with it.

 

 

 

 

 

Why was he picked, out of all the members here to be such a pariah?

[Red84]

The point that many seem to be unable to understand is that mental health issues could be at issue so why not err on the side of caution and leave the name calling out of it. There are more than enough facts to support a HOS vote. Why can't people just stick to the facts?

[Logan510]

The point that many seem to be unable to understand is that mental health issues could be at issue so why not err on the side of caution and leave the name calling out of it. There are more than enough facts to support a HOS vote. Why can't people just stick to the facts?

 

What names are people calling him? Thief? Liar? Manipulative?

[thehumantorch]

I don't think he cared for the Craigslist "entrapment". More so the person who perpetrated it.

 

I'm not a huge fan of that either but it did clearly show that he's constantly online constantly watching for deals, and he can find funds when required. A far cry from ignoring boardies and not having enough money to ship what was paid for.