PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[topofthetotem]

A vote to protect the commiity is not malice and is frankly rather insulting to those who have voted based on the fact the community's safety is better served by placing him on the HOS list then not.

 

 

[Red84]

For the record, I voted for inclusion into the HOS. I did so for two reasons. The first is the criteria laid out in the thread dealing with the Probation List and HOS Rules. It states there "b) The Hall Of Shame is for serious transgressions. For example, selling a book/books and sending nothing of value in the package. Interfering with someone's business. Being a multiple offender." The bolded part is where there's irrefutable proof that Chip falls into this category.

 

 

I want to address this specific point about Chip being a "multiple offender." I would agree, however, his offense seems to be that he ships late, has poor communication, BUT he will eventually deliver the books that were purchased. I have not heard from anyone that has paid for books and not received the goods (current transactions are still pending as he appears to be in the process of shipping). To me, that behavior is not HOS worthy. It's a nuisance and I wouldn't want to deal with it, but it is not the level of malice that I require for a HOS vote.

 

 

I asked you once earlier today, before the flurry of discussion....where do you place the GoFundMe deception in this entire saga?

 

And for that matter where do you place his disappearance after accepting funds in November followed by his claims of inability to contact anyone or ship anything due to losing his job, etc. but leaping on craigslist opportunities demonstrating both means and time that he denied having?

 

Does serial lying in the midst of business dealings along with attempting to induce monetary donations under false pretenses move the needle at all?

 

It would seem someone who only fulfills his obligations when the hammer is brought down on them and deceives and lies and hides until he's left with no other option is a pretty low bar for honest dealing.

 

I didn't see your post about the GoFundMe fiasco.

 

I participated in that charity thread and I was pissed after more information came out. I felt taken advantage of; however, I don't think his deception was intentional. I think he believed that paying off his paypal loan was part of his emergency. It should have been disclosed where all the money he was asking for would be going, but we also should have asked for a more itemized list from the get go. I thought it was on the shady side, but withholding information is not the same to me as actively providing false information. They're both bad, but the latter is worse. I don't see Chip as the master manipulator that seems to be the consensus. I don't give him that much credit. His tendency to wait until pressure is applied is also troubling, but not decisive for me. The fact is that he is now fulfilling his obligations when his fate is all but sealed on this forum. In other words, he's already been smashed by the hammer this time, but he is still following through. I think his behavior is poor and I wouldn't deal with him without significant safeguards in place, but I don't think his behavior is HOS worthy. I reserve the HOS for people like GoodsNewsComics.

 

Adding my thoughts on the craigslist incident. I don't put much weight in the idea that his searching craigslist proves he had the time to ship his books. It literally takes 5 minutes to do a quick craigslist search and send an email. My emphasis earlier on the value of the hypothetical star wars lot is important here. If the lot was worth $300 and he would have to pay $150 plus driving to acquire it; that is far more damning to me than if the lot was worth $1000 and he could quickly flip it in which case clearing a quick $700 for someone in his current situation would make sense.

[Red84]

A vote to protect the commiity is not malice and is frankly rather insulting to those who have voted based on the fact the community's safety is better served by placing him on the HOS list then not.

 

 

Was that directed at me? I attribute no malice to those voting Yes. I was saying that I don't think Chip had the requisite malice that I require for me to vote Yes.

[MustEatBrains]

For the record, I voted for inclusion into the HOS. I did so for two reasons. The first is the criteria laid out in the thread dealing with the Probation List and HOS Rules. It states there "b) The Hall Of Shame is for serious transgressions. For example, selling a book/books and sending nothing of value in the package. Interfering with someone's business. Being a multiple offender." The bolded part is where there's irrefutable proof that Chip falls into this category.

 

 

I want to address this specific point about Chip being a "multiple offender." I would agree, however, his offense seems to be that he ships late, has poor communication, BUT he will eventually deliver the books that were purchased. I have not heard from anyone that has paid for books and not received the goods (current transactions are still pending as he appears to be in the process of shipping). To me, that behavior is not HOS worthy. It's a nuisance and I wouldn't want to deal with it, but it is not the level of malice that I require for a HOS vote.

 

 

I asked you once earlier today, before the flurry of discussion....where do you place the GoFundMe deception in this entire saga?

 

And for that matter where do you place his disappearance after accepting funds in November followed by his claims of inability to contact anyone or ship anything due to losing his job, etc. but leaping on craigslist opportunities demonstrating both means and time that he denied having?

 

Does serial lying in the midst of business dealings along with attempting to induce monetary donations under false pretenses move the needle at all?

 

It would seem someone who only fulfills his obligations when the hammer is brought down on them and deceives and lies and hides until he's left with no other option is a pretty low bar for honest dealing.

 

I didn't see your post about the GoFundMe fiasco.

 

I participated in that charity thread and I was pissed after more information came out. I felt taken advantage of; however, I don't think his deception was intentional. I think he believed that paying off his paypal loan was part of his emergency. It should have been disclosed where all the money he was asking for would be going, but we also should have asked for a more itemized list from the get go. I thought it was on the shady side, but withholding information is not the same to me as actively providing false information. They're both bad, but the latter is worse. I don't see Chip as the master manipulator that seems to be the consensus. I don't give him that much credit. His tendency to wait until pressure is applied is also troubling, but not decisive for me. The fact is that he is now fulfilling his obligations when his fate is all but sealed on this forum. In other words, he's already been smashed by the hammer this time, but he is still following through. I think his behavior is poor and I wouldn't deal with him without significant safeguards in place, but I don't think his behavior is HOS worthy. I reserve the HOS for people like GoodsNewsComics.

 

Adding my thoughts on the craigslist incident. I don't put much weight in the idea that his searching craigslist proves he had the time to ship his books. It literally takes 5 minutes to do a quick craigslist search and send an email. My emphasis earlier on the value of the hypothetical star wars lot is important here. If the lot was worth $300 and he would have to pay $150 plus driving to acquire it; that is far more damning to me than if the lot was worth $1000 and he could quickly flip it in which case clearing a quick $700 for someone in his current situation would make sense.

 

That money he would have spent on the Star Wars lot should have been used to ship out orders that had been paid for already. So if he was fired from his job all he had was time, don't get your logic here.

[Red84]

For the record, I voted for inclusion into the HOS. I did so for two reasons. The first is the criteria laid out in the thread dealing with the Probation List and HOS Rules. It states there "b) The Hall Of Shame is for serious transgressions. For example, selling a book/books and sending nothing of value in the package. Interfering with someone's business. Being a multiple offender." The bolded part is where there's irrefutable proof that Chip falls into this category.

 

 

I want to address this specific point about Chip being a "multiple offender." I would agree, however, his offense seems to be that he ships late, has poor communication, BUT he will eventually deliver the books that were purchased. I have not heard from anyone that has paid for books and not received the goods (current transactions are still pending as he appears to be in the process of shipping). To me, that behavior is not HOS worthy. It's a nuisance and I wouldn't want to deal with it, but it is not the level of malice that I require for a HOS vote.

 

 

I asked you once earlier today, before the flurry of discussion....where do you place the GoFundMe deception in this entire saga?

 

And for that matter where do you place his disappearance after accepting funds in November followed by his claims of inability to contact anyone or ship anything due to losing his job, etc. but leaping on craigslist opportunities demonstrating both means and time that he denied having?

 

Does serial lying in the midst of business dealings along with attempting to induce monetary donations under false pretenses move the needle at all?

 

It would seem someone who only fulfills his obligations when the hammer is brought down on them and deceives and lies and hides until he's left with no other option is a pretty low bar for honest dealing.

 

I didn't see your post about the GoFundMe fiasco.

 

I participated in that charity thread and I was pissed after more information came out. I felt taken advantage of; however, I don't think his deception was intentional. I think he believed that paying off his paypal loan was part of his emergency. It should have been disclosed where all the money he was asking for would be going, but we also should have asked for a more itemized list from the get go. I thought it was on the shady side, but withholding information is not the same to me as actively providing false information. They're both bad, but the latter is worse. I don't see Chip as the master manipulator that seems to be the consensus. I don't give him that much credit. His tendency to wait until pressure is applied is also troubling, but not decisive for me. The fact is that he is now fulfilling his obligations when his fate is all but sealed on this forum. In other words, he's already been smashed by the hammer this time, but he is still following through. I think his behavior is poor and I wouldn't deal with him without significant safeguards in place, but I don't think his behavior is HOS worthy. I reserve the HOS for people like GoodsNewsComics.

 

Adding my thoughts on the craigslist incident. I don't put much weight in the idea that his searching craigslist proves he had the time to ship his books. It literally takes 5 minutes to do a quick craigslist search and send an email. My emphasis earlier on the value of the hypothetical star wars lot is important here. If the lot was worth $300 and he would have to pay $150 plus driving to acquire it; that is far more damning to me than if the lot was worth $1000 and he could quickly flip it in which case clearing a quick $700 for someone in his current situation would make sense.

 

That money he would have spent on the Star Wars lot should have been used to ship out orders that had been paid for already. So if he was fired from his job all he had was time, don't get your logic here.

 

I was referring to Comix4Fun's statement: "And for that matter where do you place his disappearance after accepting funds in November followed by his claims of inability to contact anyone or ship anything due to losing his job, etc. but leaping on craigslist opportunities demonstrating both means and time that he denied having?"

 

I don't think that searching craigslist for 5 minutes shows he had a significant amount of time.

[Columbia Comics]

For the record, I voted for inclusion into the HOS. I did so for two reasons. The first is the criteria laid out in the thread dealing with the Probation List and HOS Rules. It states there "b) The Hall Of Shame is for serious transgressions. For example, selling a book/books and sending nothing of value in the package. Interfering with someone's business. Being a multiple offender." The bolded part is where there's irrefutable proof that Chip falls into this category.

 

 

I want to address this specific point about Chip being a "multiple offender." I would agree, however, his offense seems to be that he ships late, has poor communication, BUT he will eventually deliver the books that were purchased. I have not heard from anyone that has paid for books and not received the goods (current transactions are still pending as he appears to be in the process of shipping). To me, that behavior is not HOS worthy. It's a nuisance and I wouldn't want to deal with it, but it is not the level of malice that I require for a HOS vote.

 

 

I asked you once earlier today, before the flurry of discussion....where do you place the GoFundMe deception in this entire saga?

 

And for that matter where do you place his disappearance after accepting funds in November followed by his claims of inability to contact anyone or ship anything due to losing his job, etc. but leaping on craigslist opportunities demonstrating both means and time that he denied having?

 

Does serial lying in the midst of business dealings along with attempting to induce monetary donations under false pretenses move the needle at all?

 

It would seem someone who only fulfills his obligations when the hammer is brought down on them and deceives and lies and hides until he's left with no other option is a pretty low bar for honest dealing.

 

I didn't see your post about the GoFundMe fiasco.

 

I participated in that charity thread and I was pissed after more information came out. I felt taken advantage of; however, I don't think his deception was intentional. I think he believed that paying off his paypal loan was part of his emergency. It should have been disclosed where all the money he was asking for would be going, but we also should have asked for a more itemized list from the get go. I thought it was on the shady side, but withholding information is not the same to me as actively providing false information. They're both bad, but the latter is worse. I don't see Chip as the master manipulator that seems to be the consensus. I don't give him that much credit. His tendency to wait until pressure is applied is also troubling, but not decisive for me. The fact is that he is now fulfilling his obligations when his fate is all but sealed on this forum. In other words, he's already been smashed by the hammer this time, but he is still following through. I think his behavior is poor and I wouldn't deal with him without significant safeguards in place, but I don't think his behavior is HOS worthy. I reserve the HOS for people like GoodsNewsComics.

 

Adding my thoughts on the craigslist incident. I don't put much weight in the idea that his searching craigslist proves he had the time to ship his books. It literally takes 5 minutes to do a quick craigslist search and send an email. My emphasis earlier on the value of the hypothetical star wars lot is important here. If the lot was worth $300 and he would have to pay $150 plus driving to acquire it; that is far more damning to me than if the lot was worth $1000 and he could quickly flip it in which case clearing a quick $700 for someone in his current situation would make sense.

 

That money he would have spent on the Star Wars lot should have been used to ship out orders that had been paid for already. So if he was fired from his job all he had was time, don't get your logic here.

 

Red84: I get the path you're following on the CL incident.

 

However, it would be folly to assign a value to the lot. There were no photos or really a solid description. It was intentionally left vague to see if he would reply.

 

Besides, how many CL listings advertise one thing only to deliver drek??

 

Point is: he has money for CL but not for shipping, or rent, or power bills, or car payment. Etc etc

 

Priorities are way off. Just another notch on the poor decision belt

 

 

[Buzzetta]

For the record, I voted for inclusion into the HOS. I did so for two reasons. The first is the criteria laid out in the thread dealing with the Probation List and HOS Rules. It states there "b) The Hall Of Shame is for serious transgressions. For example, selling a book/books and sending nothing of value in the package. Interfering with someone's business. Being a multiple offender." The bolded part is where there's irrefutable proof that Chip falls into this category.

 

 

I want to address this specific point about Chip being a "multiple offender." I would agree, however, his offense seems to be that he ships late, has poor communication, BUT he will eventually deliver the books that were purchased. I have not heard from anyone that has paid for books and not received the goods (current transactions are still pending as he appears to be in the process of shipping). To me, that behavior is not HOS worthy. It's a nuisance and I wouldn't want to deal with it, but it is not the level of malice that I require for a HOS vote.

 

 

I asked you once earlier today, before the flurry of discussion....where do you place the GoFundMe deception in this entire saga?

 

And for that matter where do you place his disappearance after accepting funds in November followed by his claims of inability to contact anyone or ship anything due to losing his job, etc. but leaping on craigslist opportunities demonstrating both means and time that he denied having?

 

Does serial lying in the midst of business dealings along with attempting to induce monetary donations under false pretenses move the needle at all?

 

It would seem someone who only fulfills his obligations when the hammer is brought down on them and deceives and lies and hides until he's left with no other option is a pretty low bar for honest dealing.

 

I didn't see your post about the GoFundMe fiasco.

 

I participated in that charity thread and I was pissed after more information came out. I felt taken advantage of; however, I don't think his deception was intentional. I think he believed that paying off his paypal loan was part of his emergency. It should have been disclosed where all the money he was asking for would be going, but we also should have asked for a more itemized list from the get go. I thought it was on the shady side, but withholding information is not the same to me as actively providing false information. They're both bad, but the latter is worse. I don't see Chip as the master manipulator that seems to be the consensus. I don't give him that much credit. His tendency to wait until pressure is applied is also troubling, but not decisive for me. The fact is that he is now fulfilling his obligations when his fate is all but sealed on this forum. In other words, he's already been smashed by the hammer this time, but he is still following through. I think his behavior is poor and I wouldn't deal with him without significant safeguards in place, but I don't think his behavior is HOS worthy. I reserve the HOS for people like GoodsNewsComics.

 

Adding my thoughts on the craigslist incident. I don't put much weight in the idea that his searching craigslist proves he had the time to ship his books. It literally takes 5 minutes to do a quick craigslist search and send an email. My emphasis earlier on the value of the hypothetical star wars lot is important here. If the lot was worth $300 and he would have to pay $150 plus driving to acquire it; that is far more damning to me than if the lot was worth $1000 and he could quickly flip it in which case clearing a quick $700 for someone in his current situation would make sense.

 

How about this then - instead of assessing the value of the imaginative Star Wars lot, address the fact that he supposedly doesn't have access to a computer to let his customers know what's going on but does have the computer access to search for stuff on Craigslist.

 

I can only wonder what his defense will be at the next message board or forum where he has problems.

[Red84]

For the record, I voted for inclusion into the HOS. I did so for two reasons. The first is the criteria laid out in the thread dealing with the Probation List and HOS Rules. It states there "b) The Hall Of Shame is for serious transgressions. For example, selling a book/books and sending nothing of value in the package. Interfering with someone's business. Being a multiple offender." The bolded part is where there's irrefutable proof that Chip falls into this category.

 

 

I want to address this specific point about Chip being a "multiple offender." I would agree, however, his offense seems to be that he ships late, has poor communication, BUT he will eventually deliver the books that were purchased. I have not heard from anyone that has paid for books and not received the goods (current transactions are still pending as he appears to be in the process of shipping). To me, that behavior is not HOS worthy. It's a nuisance and I wouldn't want to deal with it, but it is not the level of malice that I require for a HOS vote.

 

 

I asked you once earlier today, before the flurry of discussion....where do you place the GoFundMe deception in this entire saga?

 

And for that matter where do you place his disappearance after accepting funds in November followed by his claims of inability to contact anyone or ship anything due to losing his job, etc. but leaping on craigslist opportunities demonstrating both means and time that he denied having?

 

Does serial lying in the midst of business dealings along with attempting to induce monetary donations under false pretenses move the needle at all?

 

It would seem someone who only fulfills his obligations when the hammer is brought down on them and deceives and lies and hides until he's left with no other option is a pretty low bar for honest dealing.

 

I didn't see your post about the GoFundMe fiasco.

 

I participated in that charity thread and I was pissed after more information came out. I felt taken advantage of; however, I don't think his deception was intentional. I think he believed that paying off his paypal loan was part of his emergency. It should have been disclosed where all the money he was asking for would be going, but we also should have asked for a more itemized list from the get go. I thought it was on the shady side, but withholding information is not the same to me as actively providing false information. They're both bad, but the latter is worse. I don't see Chip as the master manipulator that seems to be the consensus. I don't give him that much credit. His tendency to wait until pressure is applied is also troubling, but not decisive for me. The fact is that he is now fulfilling his obligations when his fate is all but sealed on this forum. In other words, he's already been smashed by the hammer this time, but he is still following through. I think his behavior is poor and I wouldn't deal with him without significant safeguards in place, but I don't think his behavior is HOS worthy. I reserve the HOS for people like GoodsNewsComics.

 

Adding my thoughts on the craigslist incident. I don't put much weight in the idea that his searching craigslist proves he had the time to ship his books. It literally takes 5 minutes to do a quick craigslist search and send an email. My emphasis earlier on the value of the hypothetical star wars lot is important here. If the lot was worth $300 and he would have to pay $150 plus driving to acquire it; that is far more damning to me than if the lot was worth $1000 and he could quickly flip it in which case clearing a quick $700 for someone in his current situation would make sense.

 

That money he would have spent on the Star Wars lot should have been used to ship out orders that had been paid for already. So if he was fired from his job all he had was time, don't get your logic here.

 

Red84: I get the path you're following on the CL incident.

 

However, it would be folly to assign a value to the lot. There were no photos or really a solid description. It was intentionally left vague to see if he would reply.

 

Besides, how many CL listings advertise one thing only to deliver drek??

 

Point is: he has money for CL but not for shipping, or rent, or power bills, or car payment. Etc etc

 

Priorities are way off. Just another notch on the poor decision belt

 

 

I agree. Poor decisions on his part and his priorities are not in the right order. I don't know enough about Star Wars to attribute a value to the lot. But I do think the hypothetical value, if it could be gleaned from the post, does matter in terms of the opportunity cost to him in pursuing it despite lack of funds.

[Red84]

For the record, I voted for inclusion into the HOS. I did so for two reasons. The first is the criteria laid out in the thread dealing with the Probation List and HOS Rules. It states there "b) The Hall Of Shame is for serious transgressions. For example, selling a book/books and sending nothing of value in the package. Interfering with someone's business. Being a multiple offender." The bolded part is where there's irrefutable proof that Chip falls into this category.

 

 

I want to address this specific point about Chip being a "multiple offender." I would agree, however, his offense seems to be that he ships late, has poor communication, BUT he will eventually deliver the books that were purchased. I have not heard from anyone that has paid for books and not received the goods (current transactions are still pending as he appears to be in the process of shipping). To me, that behavior is not HOS worthy. It's a nuisance and I wouldn't want to deal with it, but it is not the level of malice that I require for a HOS vote.

 

 

I asked you once earlier today, before the flurry of discussion....where do you place the GoFundMe deception in this entire saga?

 

And for that matter where do you place his disappearance after accepting funds in November followed by his claims of inability to contact anyone or ship anything due to losing his job, etc. but leaping on craigslist opportunities demonstrating both means and time that he denied having?

 

Does serial lying in the midst of business dealings along with attempting to induce monetary donations under false pretenses move the needle at all?

 

It would seem someone who only fulfills his obligations when the hammer is brought down on them and deceives and lies and hides until he's left with no other option is a pretty low bar for honest dealing.

 

I didn't see your post about the GoFundMe fiasco.

 

I participated in that charity thread and I was pissed after more information came out. I felt taken advantage of; however, I don't think his deception was intentional. I think he believed that paying off his paypal loan was part of his emergency. It should have been disclosed where all the money he was asking for would be going, but we also should have asked for a more itemized list from the get go. I thought it was on the shady side, but withholding information is not the same to me as actively providing false information. They're both bad, but the latter is worse. I don't see Chip as the master manipulator that seems to be the consensus. I don't give him that much credit. His tendency to wait until pressure is applied is also troubling, but not decisive for me. The fact is that he is now fulfilling his obligations when his fate is all but sealed on this forum. In other words, he's already been smashed by the hammer this time, but he is still following through. I think his behavior is poor and I wouldn't deal with him without significant safeguards in place, but I don't think his behavior is HOS worthy. I reserve the HOS for people like GoodsNewsComics.

 

Adding my thoughts on the craigslist incident. I don't put much weight in the idea that his searching craigslist proves he had the time to ship his books. It literally takes 5 minutes to do a quick craigslist search and send an email. My emphasis earlier on the value of the hypothetical star wars lot is important here. If the lot was worth $300 and he would have to pay $150 plus driving to acquire it; that is far more damning to me than if the lot was worth $1000 and he could quickly flip it in which case clearing a quick $700 for someone in his current situation would make sense.

 

How about this then - instead of assessing the value of the imaginative Star Wars lot, address the fact that he supposedly doesn't have access to a computer to let his customers know what's going on but does have the computer access to search for stuff on Craigslist.

 

I can only wonder what his defense will be at the next message board or forum where he has problems.

 

I was not aware that he was claiming he didn't have access to a computer. That's some BS on his part and clearly not true. But once again, even taking all of his behavior into consideration, I don't consider him a thief, and that's my criteria.

[Logan510]

For the record, I voted for inclusion into the HOS. I did so for two reasons. The first is the criteria laid out in the thread dealing with the Probation List and HOS Rules. It states there "b) The Hall Of Shame is for serious transgressions. For example, selling a book/books and sending nothing of value in the package. Interfering with someone's business. Being a multiple offender." The bolded part is where there's irrefutable proof that Chip falls into this category.

 

 

I want to address this specific point about Chip being a "multiple offender." I would agree, however, his offense seems to be that he ships late, has poor communication, BUT he will eventually deliver the books that were purchased. I have not heard from anyone that has paid for books and not received the goods (current transactions are still pending as he appears to be in the process of shipping). To me, that behavior is not HOS worthy. It's a nuisance and I wouldn't want to deal with it, but it is not the level of malice that I require for a HOS vote.

 

 

I asked you once earlier today, before the flurry of discussion....where do you place the GoFundMe deception in this entire saga? I ask because you're posts have laser focused only on his comic/merch deals only and not the communications and activities on this board that ran with those deals.

 

And for that matter where do you place his disappearance after accepting funds in November followed by his claims of inability to contact anyone or ship anything due to losing his job, etc. but leaping on craigslist opportunities demonstrating both means and time that he denied having?

 

Does serial lying in the midst of business dealings along with attempting to induce monetary donations under false pretenses move the needle at all?

 

It would seem someone who only fulfills his obligations when the hammer is brought down on them and deceives and lies and hides until he's left with no other option is a pretty low bar for honest dealing.

 

Imagine how this would play out if Chip dealt in HG silver or GA books.

 

 

The mind boggles.

[skypinkblu]

For the record, I voted for inclusion into the HOS. I did so for two reasons. The first is the criteria laid out in the thread dealing with the Probation List and HOS Rules. It states there "b) The Hall Of Shame is for serious transgressions. For example, selling a book/books and sending nothing of value in the package. Interfering with someone's business. Being a multiple offender." The bolded part is where there's irrefutable proof that Chip falls into this category.

 

 

I want to address this specific point about Chip being a "multiple offender." I would agree, however, his offense seems to be that he ships late, has poor communication, BUT he will eventually deliver the books that were purchased. I have not heard from anyone that has paid for books and not received the goods (current transactions are still pending as he appears to be in the process of shipping). To me, that behavior is not HOS worthy. It's a nuisance and I wouldn't want to deal with it, but it is not the level of malice that I require for a HOS vote.

 

EDIT - These seems to be some misunderstanding as to what I wrote. I'm saying that I don't think Chip has the requisite malice for me to vote Yes on the HOS.

 

The way you chose to vote is fine, however when you are thinking about things, remember that there ARE people who have not gotten their items. We don't know that they will, we are just guessing and it's not the first time people have had to guess, so it's repetitive.

 

Also you might require a certain level of malice, but that's not what the rules say. It might be what you'd like the rules to say, but they don't actually mention malice.

 

We have a lot of terrific attorneys posting here, but this is not a court of law.

 

We had someone in the HOS because they failed to complete a purchase.

[Red84]

For the record, I voted for inclusion into the HOS. I did so for two reasons. The first is the criteria laid out in the thread dealing with the Probation List and HOS Rules. It states there "b) The Hall Of Shame is for serious transgressions. For example, selling a book/books and sending nothing of value in the package. Interfering with someone's business. Being a multiple offender." The bolded part is where there's irrefutable proof that Chip falls into this category.

 

 

I want to address this specific point about Chip being a "multiple offender." I would agree, however, his offense seems to be that he ships late, has poor communication, BUT he will eventually deliver the books that were purchased. I have not heard from anyone that has paid for books and not received the goods (current transactions are still pending as he appears to be in the process of shipping). To me, that behavior is not HOS worthy. It's a nuisance and I wouldn't want to deal with it, but it is not the level of malice that I require for a HOS vote.

 

 

I asked you once earlier today, before the flurry of discussion....where do you place the GoFundMe deception in this entire saga? I ask because you're posts have laser focused only on his comic/merch deals only and not the communications and activities on this board that ran with those deals.

 

And for that matter where do you place his disappearance after accepting funds in November followed by his claims of inability to contact anyone or ship anything due to losing his job, etc. but leaping on craigslist opportunities demonstrating both means and time that he denied having?

 

Does serial lying in the midst of business dealings along with attempting to induce monetary donations under false pretenses move the needle at all?

 

It would seem someone who only fulfills his obligations when the hammer is brought down on them and deceives and lies and hides until he's left with no other option is a pretty low bar for honest dealing.

 

Imagine how this would play out if Chip dealt in HG silver or GA books.

 

 

The mind boggles.

 

If he dealt in HG silver or GA books he probably wouldn't have buyers. It's because he sells inexpensive books that people have been willing to take the risk.

[comix4fun]

For the record, I voted for inclusion into the HOS. I did so for two reasons. The first is the criteria laid out in the thread dealing with the Probation List and HOS Rules. It states there "b) The Hall Of Shame is for serious transgressions. For example, selling a book/books and sending nothing of value in the package. Interfering with someone's business. Being a multiple offender." The bolded part is where there's irrefutable proof that Chip falls into this category.

 

 

I want to address this specific point about Chip being a "multiple offender." I would agree, however, his offense seems to be that he ships late, has poor communication, BUT he will eventually deliver the books that were purchased. I have not heard from anyone that has paid for books and not received the goods (current transactions are still pending as he appears to be in the process of shipping). To me, that behavior is not HOS worthy. It's a nuisance and I wouldn't want to deal with it, but it is not the level of malice that I require for a HOS vote.

 

 

I asked you once earlier today, before the flurry of discussion....where do you place the GoFundMe deception in this entire saga?

 

And for that matter where do you place his disappearance after accepting funds in November followed by his claims of inability to contact anyone or ship anything due to losing his job, etc. but leaping on craigslist opportunities demonstrating both means and time that he denied having?

 

Does serial lying in the midst of business dealings along with attempting to induce monetary donations under false pretenses move the needle at all?

 

It would seem someone who only fulfills his obligations when the hammer is brought down on them and deceives and lies and hides until he's left with no other option is a pretty low bar for honest dealing.

 

I didn't see your post about the GoFundMe fiasco.

 

I participated in that charity thread and I was pissed after more information came out. I felt taken advantage of; however, I don't think his deception was intentional. I think he believed that paying off his paypal loan was part of his emergency. It should have been disclosed where all the money he was asking for would be going, but we also should have asked for a more itemized list from the get go. I thought it was on the shady side, but withholding information is not the same to me as actively providing false information. They're both bad, but the latter is worse. I don't see Chip as the master manipulator that seems to be the consensus. I don't give him that much credit. His tendency to wait until pressure is applied is also troubling, but not decisive for me. The fact is that he is now fulfilling his obligations when his fate is all but sealed on this forum. In other words, he's already been smashed by the hammer this time, but he is still following through. I think his behavior is poor and I wouldn't deal with him without significant safeguards in place, but I don't think his behavior is HOS worthy. I reserve the HOS for people like GoodsNewsComics.

 

 

I can see that, thanks for the explanation. It's good to hear how other people see the same situation. That helps to get a little Rashomon going.

 

I don't want to ramble but, I took this statement on the boards to mean he needed the full $15k to avoid complete destruction of his life:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9372220#Post9372220

 

"That being said, I believe this coming week will be the end of it. It will not be a positive result. A few things have escalated quickly (some as of this morning) and on the 1st all the bills are due yet again, piling on. I will lose my home, my cats and the rest of my possessions. Yes, things are that bad. If a long-lost relative dies and leaves me $15k you'll see me celebrating. Otherwise I'll see y'all on the flip side."

 

And on GoFundMe:

 

"I will not be able to catch up quickly enough to save my home and my car. Once I lose those, I'm sunk. Every bill I have is at least two months behind and on the 1st all the major ones are due again. All monetary accounts are in the negative and internet/phone are in danger of being shut off this week. Anything I had that was worth selling has been sold or pawned...only a few pieces of furniture and the computer I'm using to write this remain."

 

 

He needed $3k to avoid all those tragedies immediately (eviction, utilities, etc), but he made it sound like that full amount was what was needed. It wasn't until he slipped to someone in a PM and was stuck and pressed in his GoFundMe thread that the truth came out.

 

Really, you should read that thread again. It was like pulling teeth from crocodile. He parsed and parted out foggy answers to simple questions. Then there's the part where he says the IRS is going to seize his assets imminently, but really it was just a letter letting him know he was behind on payments.

 

Feels a lot less like a "mistake" and a whole lot more like "fraud in the inducement".

 

There's a tiny seedling of truth somewhere in all that stuff and it's then exaggerated and blown out of proportion to something grandiose and, ultimately, false.

 

Maybe it's because I was the one trying to get answers from him in that thread and the target kept moving and the smokescreen was thick and the reality of the tragedy was relatively minor compared to how he made it out in his pleas.

 

Read the language he uses again. The manipulative turns of phrase. When he's called on contradictory facts or someone gets upset that they weren't given the whole story before donating he shifts gears to "I know I'm not liked here", to make it personal and deflect from his own responsibility and deceptive wording and not factual based on his own words and deeds.

[Red84]

For the record, I voted for inclusion into the HOS. I did so for two reasons. The first is the criteria laid out in the thread dealing with the Probation List and HOS Rules. It states there "b) The Hall Of Shame is for serious transgressions. For example, selling a book/books and sending nothing of value in the package. Interfering with someone's business. Being a multiple offender." The bolded part is where there's irrefutable proof that Chip falls into this category.

 

 

I want to address this specific point about Chip being a "multiple offender." I would agree, however, his offense seems to be that he ships late, has poor communication, BUT he will eventually deliver the books that were purchased. I have not heard from anyone that has paid for books and not received the goods (current transactions are still pending as he appears to be in the process of shipping). To me, that behavior is not HOS worthy. It's a nuisance and I wouldn't want to deal with it, but it is not the level of malice that I require for a HOS vote.

 

EDIT - These seems to be some misunderstanding as to what I wrote. I'm saying that I don't think Chip has the requisite malice for me to vote Yes on the HOS.

 

The way you chose to vote is fine, however when you are thinking about things, remember that there ARE people who have not gotten their items. We don't know that they will, we are just guessing and it's not the first time people have had to guess, so it's repetitive.

 

Also you might require a certain level of malice, but that's not what the rules say. It might be what you'd like the rules to say, but they don't actually mention malice.

 

We have a lot of terrific attorneys posting here, but this is not a court of law.

 

We had someone in the HOS because they failed to complete a purchase.

 

All valid points. The people who are currently waiting on books adds a complication to the process that having PL and HOS votes simultaneously has exacerbated in my view. Prior to the current transactions, has anyone not received what they paid for (even if it took a ridiculous amount of time for it to arrive?)

 

As to someone being in the HOS because they failed to complete a purchase, that seems like overkill and something more suited to the probation list. I'd be curious to see the circumstances surrounding that one if you have a link.

[Red84]

For the record, I voted for inclusion into the HOS. I did so for two reasons. The first is the criteria laid out in the thread dealing with the Probation List and HOS Rules. It states there "b) The Hall Of Shame is for serious transgressions. For example, selling a book/books and sending nothing of value in the package. Interfering with someone's business. Being a multiple offender." The bolded part is where there's irrefutable proof that Chip falls into this category.

 

 

I want to address this specific point about Chip being a "multiple offender." I would agree, however, his offense seems to be that he ships late, has poor communication, BUT he will eventually deliver the books that were purchased. I have not heard from anyone that has paid for books and not received the goods (current transactions are still pending as he appears to be in the process of shipping). To me, that behavior is not HOS worthy. It's a nuisance and I wouldn't want to deal with it, but it is not the level of malice that I require for a HOS vote.

 

 

I asked you once earlier today, before the flurry of discussion....where do you place the GoFundMe deception in this entire saga?

 

And for that matter where do you place his disappearance after accepting funds in November followed by his claims of inability to contact anyone or ship anything due to losing his job, etc. but leaping on craigslist opportunities demonstrating both means and time that he denied having?

 

Does serial lying in the midst of business dealings along with attempting to induce monetary donations under false pretenses move the needle at all?

 

It would seem someone who only fulfills his obligations when the hammer is brought down on them and deceives and lies and hides until he's left with no other option is a pretty low bar for honest dealing.

 

I didn't see your post about the GoFundMe fiasco.

 

I participated in that charity thread and I was pissed after more information came out. I felt taken advantage of; however, I don't think his deception was intentional. I think he believed that paying off his paypal loan was part of his emergency. It should have been disclosed where all the money he was asking for would be going, but we also should have asked for a more itemized list from the get go. I thought it was on the shady side, but withholding information is not the same to me as actively providing false information. They're both bad, but the latter is worse. I don't see Chip as the master manipulator that seems to be the consensus. I don't give him that much credit. His tendency to wait until pressure is applied is also troubling, but not decisive for me. The fact is that he is now fulfilling his obligations when his fate is all but sealed on this forum. In other words, he's already been smashed by the hammer this time, but he is still following through. I think his behavior is poor and I wouldn't deal with him without significant safeguards in place, but I don't think his behavior is HOS worthy. I reserve the HOS for people like GoodsNewsComics.

 

 

I can see that, thanks for the explanation. It's good to hear how other people see the same situation. That helps to get a little Rashomon going.

 

I don't want to ramble but, I took this statement on the boards to mean he needed the full $15k to avoid complete destruction of his life:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9372220#Post9372220

 

"That being said, I believe this coming week will be the end of it. It will not be a positive result. A few things have escalated quickly (some as of this morning) and on the 1st all the bills are due yet again, piling on. I will lose my home, my cats and the rest of my possessions. Yes, things are that bad. If a long-lost relative dies and leaves me $15k you'll see me celebrating. Otherwise I'll see y'all on the flip side."

 

And on GoFundMe:

 

"I will not be able to catch up quickly enough to save my home and my car. Once I lose those, I'm sunk. Every bill I have is at least two months behind and on the 1st all the major ones are due again. All monetary accounts are in the negative and internet/phone are in danger of being shut off this week. Anything I had that was worth selling has been sold or pawned...only a few pieces of furniture and the computer I'm using to write this remain."

 

 

He needed $3k to avoid all those tragedies immediately (eviction, utilities, etc), but he made it sound like that full amount was what was needed. It wasn't until he slipped to someone in a PM and was stuck and pressed in his GoFundMe thread that the truth came out.

 

Really, you should read that thread again. It was like pulling teeth from crocodile. He parsed and parted out foggy answers to simple questions. Then there's the part where he says the IRS is going to seize his assets imminently, but really it was just a letter letting him know he was behind on payments.

 

Feels a lot less like a "mistake" and a whole lot more like "fraud in the inducement".

 

There's a tiny seedling of truth somewhere in all that stuff and it's then exaggerated and blown out of proportion to something grandiose and, ultimately, false.

 

Maybe it's because I was the one trying to get answers from him in that thread and the target kept moving and the smokescreen was thick and the reality of the tragedy was relatively minor compared to how he made it out in his pleas.

 

Read the language he uses again. The manipulative turns of phrase. When he's called on contradictory facts or someone gets upset that they weren't given the whole story before donating he shifts gears to "I know I'm not liked here", to make it personal and deflect from his own responsibility and deceptive wording and not factual based on his own words and deeds.

 

I will go back and read it again. It's possible I don't remember it as clearly. I do remember being upset that I had donated.

[ChasingKingKirby]

Poll at the bottom

 

Chip Cataldo is hereby nominated for the Hall of Shame

 

From his time here, as well as on other forums, Chip has shown a long history of preying on the sympathies of good-hearted people to either obtain something he wants or to avoid being called out and criticized for not fulfilling his obligations. He repeatedly posts statements of despair and all hope being lost to garner support and encouragement from people, while his actions show that in actuality his motive is purely for personal gain.

 

The following list are several examples that each go to basic honesty or trust issues and that, although some may seem irrelevant on their own, each is a layer to the tapestry of shame that is Chip Cataldo.

 

• Chip has had almost identical issues in the past on other forums.
  http://megomuseum.com/community/archive/index.php/t-2791.html
  http://forum.rebelscum.com/showthread.php?t=1040006
  http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60460
  In this specific discussion specific discussion on the Mego Forum, it is discussed that this similar behavior has occurred over the past decade in Google Groups
  Google Groups Discussion revealing that Chip has had issues in online transactions dating as far back as 1998.
  
• Chip claimed an offering in the Giving Tree thread. He offered up a follow up offer which wasn't up to par. Several members objected and Chip defiantly changed up the offer and claimed "I'm not changing it up again. This is good enough." It was brought up that in another thread he was boasting about a 2,300 book collection he had just acquired. Chip explained that those books were for financial gain and what he was offering was for the Boards. Chip was clearly looking out for his own personal gain while declaring he didn't have much to offer. Secretly, he had a lot more to offer than he let on. This is one small example of Chip's pattern of dishonesty and deception.
  
• Chip then started a GoFundMe page eliciting donations for $15,000 originally claiming that this amount was needed to keep from being evicted. Additionally, he was able to get a Board Charity Thread created based on the sympathy he created. In reality, it was revealed that only approximately $3,000 was being used to pay off debts and the other $12,000 was going to be used to support him for several months and pay off a PayPal loan which he accrued by purchasing comics.
  
• Recently, Chip was nominated for the Probation List after running a sales thread, obtaining the funds from several Board members, and then either declaring items would be shipped soon or ignoring request from buyers altogether. There were at least six individuals who paid and hadn't received anything. Upon his nomination, only then did Chip respond to buyers and attempt to avoid being added to the Probation List while ignoring the public nomination.
  
• In that response he offered to be placed on the PL and / or HOS list. claiming he understood why.
  
• Finally, when Chip publicly responded, he declared that he lost his job, suggesting that he had neither the money nor the time to ship items. However, he was simultaneously responding to a fake Craigslist ad attempting to purchase a Star Wars toy collection.
   
  It occurred to me that no matter what transpires in the Chip Cataldo fiasco, there would always be those who would defend him. He has this issue or that issue and that's ok because we have to be kind and caring and exhibit all the political correctness one can handle.
   
  It also occurred to me that his behavior isn't going to stop: a pattern that has emerged over many years and many internet forums. A pattern of someone, through their own poor choices, consistently find themselves in dire straits only to seek out the assistance from others. But the interesting part of this is that the pattern continues: wash, rinse, repeat. No knowledge that would benefit said party is used when he finds himself in the same situation. It's like "Hey...you guys bailed me out the last 15 times, what's another time, right?"
   
  Knowing this and also realizing that the truth would never come out, I decided to conduct an experiment with the following hypothesis:
   
  Chip's situation isn't nearly as bad as he lets on. He knows exactly what he's doing; he's actively on the boards/Facebook, etc and he's going to continue to bilk money and sympathy from anyone who's willing to enable him.
   
  After consulting Buzzetta (for the record, we are good friends), I decided to dangle a carrot:
   
  http://myrtlebeach.craigslist.org/tag/5939743811.html
   
  Some may say its deceitful; others that it was wrong. But I know how much he loves Star Wars toys. BUT...and here's the kicker: if his situation is so bad (no job, getting evicted for the second time, no way to support his dependents), then there's no way he would possibly be buying collections. If you take him at his word, he shouldn't have ANY extra money, right?
   
  Well....as expected, I was wrong.
   
  At 8:31 pm, I received the following:
   
  
   
  YES Chip has time AND money to buy Star Wars collections. Not only that, it's the money that people here sent him for items that HAVE NOT been delivered. Items that were purchased in November. I believe etanick said his check was cashed on 11/15 and his PM from 12/6 was just read. JUST READ! That's over 45 days.
   
  It's my opinion that Mr. Cataldo should be in the HoS. Like many, I was shocked that his gofundme attempt wasn't enough to push him into the Hall. I mean, he was literally asking the community to pay off his debts (which he accumulated) and pay his living expenses for a few months so he could "get his life together." Will someone do this for me?
   
  Between the gofundme, the more recent lack of shipping/responding/basically stealing others money, his history on various Star Wars forums, I believe a HoS vote is in order.
   
  If he has the means and ability to go out and buy toy collections, then he has the means and ability to settle all prior affairs.
   
  The difference is: he doesn't want to and has repeatedly shown his true self and true colors.
   
  We are the farmers. Chip is the snake. How many times must we be bitten to understand?!?!
   
   
  

   
  

 

Chip has proved the adage "actions speak louder than words" have rung true. While he declares one thing publicly to garner sympathy from kind-hearted people, his actual ulterior motive is solely for personal gain. At this time, Chip is being nominated to the Hall of Shame.

 

 

For those that have not voted.

 

That is shameful...

[comix4fun]

For the record, I voted for inclusion into the HOS. I did so for two reasons. The first is the criteria laid out in the thread dealing with the Probation List and HOS Rules. It states there "b) The Hall Of Shame is for serious transgressions. For example, selling a book/books and sending nothing of value in the package. Interfering with someone's business. Being a multiple offender." The bolded part is where there's irrefutable proof that Chip falls into this category.

 

 

I want to address this specific point about Chip being a "multiple offender." I would agree, however, his offense seems to be that he ships late, has poor communication, BUT he will eventually deliver the books that were purchased. I have not heard from anyone that has paid for books and not received the goods (current transactions are still pending as he appears to be in the process of shipping). To me, that behavior is not HOS worthy. It's a nuisance and I wouldn't want to deal with it, but it is not the level of malice that I require for a HOS vote.

 

 

I asked you once earlier today, before the flurry of discussion....where do you place the GoFundMe deception in this entire saga?

 

And for that matter where do you place his disappearance after accepting funds in November followed by his claims of inability to contact anyone or ship anything due to losing his job, etc. but leaping on craigslist opportunities demonstrating both means and time that he denied having?

 

Does serial lying in the midst of business dealings along with attempting to induce monetary donations under false pretenses move the needle at all?

 

It would seem someone who only fulfills his obligations when the hammer is brought down on them and deceives and lies and hides until he's left with no other option is a pretty low bar for honest dealing.

 

I didn't see your post about the GoFundMe fiasco.

 

I participated in that charity thread and I was pissed after more information came out. I felt taken advantage of; however, I don't think his deception was intentional. I think he believed that paying off his paypal loan was part of his emergency. It should have been disclosed where all the money he was asking for would be going, but we also should have asked for a more itemized list from the get go. I thought it was on the shady side, but withholding information is not the same to me as actively providing false information. They're both bad, but the latter is worse. I don't see Chip as the master manipulator that seems to be the consensus. I don't give him that much credit. His tendency to wait until pressure is applied is also troubling, but not decisive for me. The fact is that he is now fulfilling his obligations when his fate is all but sealed on this forum. In other words, he's already been smashed by the hammer this time, but he is still following through. I think his behavior is poor and I wouldn't deal with him without significant safeguards in place, but I don't think his behavior is HOS worthy. I reserve the HOS for people like GoodsNewsComics.

 

Adding my thoughts on the craigslist incident. I don't put much weight in the idea that his searching craigslist proves he had the time to ship his books. It literally takes 5 minutes to do a quick craigslist search and send an email. My emphasis earlier on the value of the hypothetical star wars lot is important here. If the lot was worth $300 and he would have to pay $150 plus driving to acquire it; that is far more damning to me than if the lot was worth $1000 and he could quickly flip it in which case clearing a quick $700 for someone in his current situation would make sense.

 

Right, at the same time he was putting people off, not responding to them he was seeking out deals and emailing on craigslist. People from that thread mentioned emailing/messaging him for weeks without a response. He had time for a personal score (so he thought) but no time to at least reassure and use the same amount of time as it would take to contact a guy on craigslist to instead contact the people whose money he was holding while they waited months for the items they purchased.

 

That's the value of the craigslist ad. Not the minutiae of what toys and how much and what he could make, but that his email was working just fine to send messages to everyone but those he owed.

 

[Logan510]

For the record, I voted for inclusion into the HOS. I did so for two reasons. The first is the criteria laid out in the thread dealing with the Probation List and HOS Rules. It states there "b) The Hall Of Shame is for serious transgressions. For example, selling a book/books and sending nothing of value in the package. Interfering with someone's business. Being a multiple offender." The bolded part is where there's irrefutable proof that Chip falls into this category.

 

 

I want to address this specific point about Chip being a "multiple offender." I would agree, however, his offense seems to be that he ships late, has poor communication, BUT he will eventually deliver the books that were purchased. I have not heard from anyone that has paid for books and not received the goods (current transactions are still pending as he appears to be in the process of shipping). To me, that behavior is not HOS worthy. It's a nuisance and I wouldn't want to deal with it, but it is not the level of malice that I require for a HOS vote.

 

 

I asked you once earlier today, before the flurry of discussion....where do you place the GoFundMe deception in this entire saga? I ask because you're posts have laser focused only on his comic/merch deals only and not the communications and activities on this board that ran with those deals.

 

And for that matter where do you place his disappearance after accepting funds in November followed by his claims of inability to contact anyone or ship anything due to losing his job, etc. but leaping on craigslist opportunities demonstrating both means and time that he denied having?

 

Does serial lying in the midst of business dealings along with attempting to induce monetary donations under false pretenses move the needle at all?

 

It would seem someone who only fulfills his obligations when the hammer is brought down on them and deceives and lies and hides until he's left with no other option is a pretty low bar for honest dealing.

 

Imagine how this would play out if Chip dealt in HG silver or GA books.

 

 

The mind boggles.

 

If he dealt in HG silver or GA books he probably wouldn't have buyers. It's because he sells inexpensive books that people have been willing to take the risk.

 

 

He'd be a "well respected" member, don't kid yourself.

[skypinkblu]

For the record, I voted for inclusion into the HOS. I did so for two reasons. The first is the criteria laid out in the thread dealing with the Probation List and HOS Rules. It states there "b) The Hall Of Shame is for serious transgressions. For example, selling a book/books and sending nothing of value in the package. Interfering with someone's business. Being a multiple offender." The bolded part is where there's irrefutable proof that Chip falls into this category.

 

 

I want to address this specific point about Chip being a "multiple offender." I would agree, however, his offense seems to be that he ships late, has poor communication, BUT he will eventually deliver the books that were purchased. I have not heard from anyone that has paid for books and not received the goods (current transactions are still pending as he appears to be in the process of shipping). To me, that behavior is not HOS worthy. It's a nuisance and I wouldn't want to deal with it, but it is not the level of malice that I require for a HOS vote.

 

EDIT - These seems to be some misunderstanding as to what I wrote. I'm saying that I don't think Chip has the requisite malice for me to vote Yes on the HOS.

 

The way you chose to vote is fine, however when you are thinking about things, remember that there ARE people who have not gotten their items. We don't know that they will, we are just guessing and it's not the first time people have had to guess, so it's repetitive.

 

Also you might require a certain level of malice, but that's not what the rules say. It might be what you'd like the rules to say, but they don't actually mention malice.

 

We have a lot of terrific attorneys posting here, but this is not a court of law.

 

We had someone in the HOS because they failed to complete a purchase.

 

All valid points. The people who are currently waiting on books adds a complication to the process that having PL and HOS votes simultaneously has exacerbated in my view. Prior to the current transactions, has anyone not received what they paid for (even if it took a ridiculous amount of time for it to arrive?)

 

As to someone being in the HOS because they failed to complete a purchase, that seems like overkill and something more suited to the probation list. I'd be curious to see the circumstances surrounding that one if you have a link.

 

Look at TFL. You should look at all of them to get a better idea. Now this does not mean that some of the votes were not close. I know I didn't vote for all of the people on that list, to be there, but you can see that you don't have to not mail books, to get on there.

 

Remember, he's not going to prison...just having a note here on this board saying to deal with at your own risk,and we can't even post that note in his threads (yet).

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1646534&fpart=116

[Junkdrawer]

Hi Chip

Things can only get better.

Your friend

Chris