PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[VintageComics]

I don't understand what is happening at all but here is how I see it anyways.

 

You put chip on the HOS nomination because he hasn't shipped customers books he promised and he started to send the books out because he was nominated.

 

Anyone voting no deserves to be on the HOS.

 

Chip is only shipping orders so he's not on the HOS

 

this is the second time this has happened with Chip, right? or am I losing count?

 

Either way him not being on the HOS proves the PL and HOS are a joke.

 

Incorrect.

 

The PL -- or threat of being put on it -- is what apparently prompted Chip to begin fulfilling his obligations. He is currently on it, and in theory, if everyone who nominated him for it agreed that said obligations were met and agreed to his removal, he would be removed. PL cases, in my recollection, almost never go to a vote -- they are between the parties involved.

 

The HOS is a different story altogether. It is a community vote, and the person involved can only be removed by a community vote. And the voting is apparently not over, but judging by most people's comments, he'll be on it as soon as the voting period is over, and will likely stay on it.

 

The only "joke" about either list is when people put making money or getting "cool books" ahead of dealing with reputable people and enabling those who don't deal reputably.

 

If you don't understand what the two lists are or how they function, it's probably not best to make blanket statements about them.

 

He's being a class clown, mostly. There was a lot of sarcasm in that post.

[etanick]

The fact is that he is now fulfilling his obligations when his fate is all but sealed on this forum. In other words, he's already been smashed by the hammer this time, but he is still following through. I think his behavior is poor and I wouldn't deal with him without significant safeguards in place, but I don't think his behavior is HOS worthy. I reserve the HOS for people like GoodsNewsComics.

 

based on what? I have refrained from commenting but

 

he read my PM, that is IT...FACT! no reply, no promise, no nothing.

 

as I posted before, if and when I receive what I paid, I will let everyone know.

 

[Ryan.]

#freechip

 

+1

 

 

#thecarrotwastoojuicynottobite

[VintageComics]

When you get money for something and use it for something else, whether it's a bargain or not..whether you are flipping or not...you are using someone else's funds without their permission. That IS stealing.

 

That's what got Doug Schmell (Captain Tripps, Pedigree Comics) disbarred.

 

I'm going to say this:

 

We still haven't ruled out mental health. Period. And so while Chip is going into the HOS (and deservedly so) I disagree with the tact that some board members who love calling people names are using this as an opportunity to do so.

 

And Lawyers are held to higher standards that pop culture salesmen. If they weren't we wouldn't have so many unscrupulous dealers still in business with board members knowingly buying from them.

 

 

 

 

[Jimmy Linguini]

I don't understand what is happening at all but here is how I see it anyways.

 

You put chip on the HOS nomination because he hasn't shipped customers books he promised and he started to send the books out because he was nominated.

 

Anyone voting no deserves to be on the HOS.

 

Chip is only shipping orders so he's not on the HOS

 

this is the second time this has happened with Chip, right? or am I losing count?

 

Either way him not being on the HOS proves the PL and HOS are a joke.

 

Incorrect.

 

The PL -- or threat of being put on it -- is what apparently prompted Chip to begin fulfilling his obligations. He is currently on it, and in theory, if everyone who nominated him for it agreed that said obligations were met and agreed to his removal, he would be removed. PL cases, in my recollection, almost never go to a vote -- they are between the parties involved.

 

The HOS is a different story altogether. It is a community vote, and the person involved can only be removed by a community vote. And the voting is apparently not over, but judging by most people's comments, he'll be on it as soon as the voting period is over, and will likely stay on it.

 

The only "joke" about either list is when people put making money or getting "cool books" ahead of dealing with reputable people and enabling those who don't deal reputably.

 

If you don't understand what the two lists are or how they function, it's probably not best to make blanket statements about them.

 

He's being a class clown, mostly. There was a lot of sarcasm in that post.

 

No.

 

I stand by that and most of my other posts.

 

Chip not being on the HOS and people voting NO to his Hos nomination shows that the PL and HOS are a joke.

 

Anyone that thinks Chip shouldnt be on the HOS should be on the HOS.

 

 

[Red84]

I think this has been a very well reasoned and, for the most part, peaceful discussion.

Now it's up to the voters to decide.

:foryou: :foryou: :foryou: :foryou:

:foryou: :foryou: :foryou: :foryou:

:foryou: :foryou: :foryou: :foryou:

:foryou: :foryou: :foryou: :foryou:

:foryou: :foryou: :foryou: :foryou:

[Awax]

I don't understand what is happening at all but here is how I see it anyways.

 

You put chip on the HOS nomination because he hasn't shipped customers books he promised and he started to send the books out because he was nominated.

 

Anyone voting no deserves to be on the HOS.

 

Chip is only shipping orders so he's not on the HOS

 

this is the second time this has happened with Chip, right? or am I losing count?

 

Either way him not being on the HOS proves the PL and HOS are a joke.

 

Incorrect.

 

The PL -- or threat of being put on it -- is what apparently prompted Chip to begin fulfilling his obligations. He is currently on it, and in theory, if everyone who nominated him for it agreed that said obligations were met and agreed to his removal, he would be removed. PL cases, in my recollection, almost never go to a vote -- they are between the parties involved.

 

The HOS is a different story altogether. It is a community vote, and the person involved can only be removed by a community vote. And the voting is apparently not over, but judging by most people's comments, he'll be on it as soon as the voting period is over, and will likely stay on it.

 

The only "joke" about either list is when people put making money or getting "cool books" ahead of dealing with reputable people and enabling those who don't deal reputably.

 

If you don't understand what the two lists are or how they function, it's probably not best to make blanket statements about them.

 

He's being a class clown, mostly. There was a lot of sarcasm in that post.

 

He also might be high

[Logan510]

 

I find the bolded part above incredibly insulting. Please do not lump everyone together like that. Just because you're capable of something does not mean everyone else is.

 

 

You know, I read a post from the bottom up and if I think it's Casey I play a little game and bet myself that it is. So far I'm batting pretty strong.

 

It's not about what a person is capable of. It is about how people react in desperation.

 

But thanks for the post and missing the point of mine!

 

You're welcome.

 

Thanks for the condescension.

[MustEatBrains]

I have a question. Can someone reconcile this statement Chip made is his last getting evicted sale:

 

"I've found out I can accept PayPal but only personal"

 

I know it's against board policy to ask for personal so strike right there, but curious to know if something like that is true or not where someone can only receive personal and not funds for merchandise sold.

 

I just don't know enough about PayPal but would like to know.

[Red84]

I don't understand what is happening at all but here is how I see it anyways.

 

You put chip on the HOS nomination because he hasn't shipped customers books he promised and he started to send the books out because he was nominated.

 

Anyone voting no deserves to be on the HOS.

 

Chip is only shipping orders so he's not on the HOS

 

this is the second time this has happened with Chip, right? or am I losing count?

 

Either way him not being on the HOS proves the PL and HOS are a joke.

 

Incorrect.

 

The PL -- or threat of being put on it -- is what apparently prompted Chip to begin fulfilling his obligations. He is currently on it, and in theory, if everyone who nominated him for it agreed that said obligations were met and agreed to his removal, he would be removed. PL cases, in my recollection, almost never go to a vote -- they are between the parties involved.

 

The HOS is a different story altogether. It is a community vote, and the person involved can only be removed by a community vote. And the voting is apparently not over, but judging by most people's comments, he'll be on it as soon as the voting period is over, and will likely stay on it.

 

The only "joke" about either list is when people put making money or getting "cool books" ahead of dealing with reputable people and enabling those who don't deal reputably.

 

If you don't understand what the two lists are or how they function, it's probably not best to make blanket statements about them.

 

He's being a class clown, mostly. There was a lot of sarcasm in that post.

 

No.

 

I stand by that and most of my other posts.

 

Chip not being on the HOS and people voting NO to his Hos nomination shows that the PL and HOS are a joke.

 

Anyone that thinks Chip shouldnt be on the HOS should be on the HOS.

 

 

Aren't you precious.

[VintageComics]

You might still be a hippie;) but that's not the same...

 

So maybe it's time to stop trying to excuse what is clearly NOT the kind of behaviour that you'd find acceptable for yourself ...

 

Fair points (sorry edited out the color)

 

 

 

 

[Red84]

I have a question. Can someone reconcile this statement Chip made is his last getting evicted sale:

 

"I've found out I can accept PayPal but only personal"

 

I know it's against board policy to ask for personal so strike right there, but curious to know if something like that is true or not where someone can only receive personal and not funds for merchandise sold.

 

I just don't know enough about PayPal but would like to know.

 

that statement was odd to me. Is it possible the goods and services option was turned off for him due to failure to pay his Paypal loan?

[chrisco37]

When you get money for something and use it for something else, whether it's a bargain or not..whether you are flipping or not...you are using someone else's funds without their permission. That IS stealing.

 

That's what got Doug Schmell (Captain Tripps, Pedigree Comics) disbarred.

 

I'm going to say this:

 

We still haven't ruled out mental health. Period. And so while Chip is going into the HOS (and deservedly so) I disagree with the tact being used by some board members who love calling people names.

 

And Lawyers are held to higher standards that pop culture salesmen. If they weren't we wouldn't have so many unscrupulous dealers still in business with board members knowingly buying from them.

 

 

You're the only one that is hung up on the whole mental health thing.

 

I'm not trying to sound cold, but that's not an excuse for his continued pattern of life screw ups. Maybe it's the reason, but it's not an excuse.

 

I think you are having a difficult time separating the two.

[ChiSoxFan]

I don't understand what is happening at all but here is how I see it anyways.

 

You put chip on the HOS nomination because he hasn't shipped customers books he promised and he started to send the books out because he was nominated.

 

Anyone voting no deserves to be on the HOS.

 

Chip is only shipping orders so he's not on the HOS

 

this is the second time this has happened with Chip, right? or am I losing count?

 

Either way him not being on the HOS proves the PL and HOS are a joke.

 

Incorrect.

 

The PL -- or threat of being put on it -- is what apparently prompted Chip to begin fulfilling his obligations. He is currently on it, and in theory, if everyone who nominated him for it agreed that said obligations were met and agreed to his removal, he would be removed. PL cases, in my recollection, almost never go to a vote -- they are between the parties involved.

 

The HOS is a different story altogether. It is a community vote, and the person involved can only be removed by a community vote. And the voting is apparently not over, but judging by most people's comments, he'll be on it as soon as the voting period is over, and will likely stay on it.

 

The only "joke" about either list is when people put making money or getting "cool books" ahead of dealing with reputable people and enabling those who don't deal reputably.

 

If you don't understand what the two lists are or how they function, it's probably not best to make blanket statements about them.

 

Because the PL stops people on the PL from buying or selling?

 

NO. A select group will block them but they still have full reign. I've read this thread enough to understand that.

 

If threat of being put on the HOS is what makes someone ship books after being nominated and people actually vote no to the nomination - the HOS is a joke.

 

Its supposed to warn others not to buy or sell to them on the CGC boards, not to make them ship books they wouldn't otherwise have shipped. Just because he ships books now doens't mean he will in the future which is the exact reason for the HOS.

 

Since you admitted to not understanding what's happening, your statements kind of lose credibility right off of the bat.

 

The PL doesn't stop people from buying or selling entirely. It does severely limit what they can or can't do. Check the number of major sellers who won't deal with anyone on either list, and the number of times that someone on the list has started a sales thread and the posting of their status on the list as a sign that it does the best it can without CGC itself policing the sales forums (which they've stated before they won't do). It's not 100% perfect, but it's the best we have. Any argument that says "if it's not perfect, then it's a joke" is a joke argument, ironically enough. The selling forum is better for having it than not.

 

If you've read anyone's arguments against a HOS vote in the past -- and I'm not talking this specific case, but previous people who've gone up for a vote -- many people have stated before that they reserved their HOS votes for only the worst of the worst offenders. Symbiotic and Solarcadet1 were two who some people voted "no" on for that reason -- they weren't viewed by some as in the same league as TFL or ComicSupply or the Neelys, for example. So not every person votes "no" for the same reason. A single person voting "no" in any case does not mean that the process or the result is a joke -- it simply means that someone has interpreted things differently than you have, and that's their right. If the majority (and in this case, it's going to be a huge majority, myself part of it) disagrees, then the process has worked. Not sure where the problem is with that.

 

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

No.

 

I stand by that and most of my other posts.

 

Chip not being on the HOS and people voting NO to his Hos nomination shows that the PL and HOS are a joke.

 

Anyone that thinks Chip shouldnt be on the HOS should be on the HOS.

 

 

Sorry, I misread it.

 

The HOS is not a joke.

 

It's decided by a member's peers and what makes the world go round is that everyone sees things differently. That collective opinion is what it's all about. It's way better than just having a few people decide it.

[crassus]

I don't understand what is happening at all but here is how I see it anyways.

 

You put chip on the HOS nomination because he hasn't shipped customers books he promised and he started to send the books out because he was nominated.

 

Anyone voting no deserves to be on the HOS.

 

Chip is only shipping orders so he's not on the HOS

 

this is the second time this has happened with Chip, right? or am I losing count?

 

Either way him not being on the HOS proves the PL and HOS are a joke.

 

Incorrect.

 

The PL -- or threat of being put on it -- is what apparently prompted Chip to begin fulfilling his obligations. He is currently on it, and in theory, if everyone who nominated him for it agreed that said obligations were met and agreed to his removal, he would be removed. PL cases, in my recollection, almost never go to a vote -- they are between the parties involved.

 

The HOS is a different story altogether. It is a community vote, and the person involved can only be removed by a community vote. And the voting is apparently not over, but judging by most people's comments, he'll be on it as soon as the voting period is over, and will likely stay on it.

 

The only "joke" about either list is when people put making money or getting "cool books" ahead of dealing with reputable people and enabling those who don't deal reputably.

 

If you don't understand what the two lists are or how they function, it's probably not best to make blanket statements about them.

 

He's being a class clown, mostly. There was a lot of sarcasm in that post.

 

He also might be high

 

High on CGC Boards excitement!

[chrisco37]

No.

 

I stand by that and most of my other posts.

 

Chip not being on the HOS and people voting NO to his Hos nomination shows that the PL and HOS are a joke.

 

Anyone that thinks Chip shouldnt be on the HOS should be on the HOS.

 

 

Sorry, I misread it.

 

The HOS is not a joke.

 

It's decided by a member's peers and what makes the world go round is that everyone sees things differently. That collective opinion is what it's all about. It's way better than just having a few people decide it.

 

Agree with you here.

[ChiSoxFan]

I don't understand what is happening at all but here is how I see it anyways.

 

You put chip on the HOS nomination because he hasn't shipped customers books he promised and he started to send the books out because he was nominated.

 

Anyone voting no deserves to be on the HOS.

 

Chip is only shipping orders so he's not on the HOS

 

this is the second time this has happened with Chip, right? or am I losing count?

 

Either way him not being on the HOS proves the PL and HOS are a joke.

 

Incorrect.

 

The PL -- or threat of being put on it -- is what apparently prompted Chip to begin fulfilling his obligations. He is currently on it, and in theory, if everyone who nominated him for it agreed that said obligations were met and agreed to his removal, he would be removed. PL cases, in my recollection, almost never go to a vote -- they are between the parties involved.

 

The HOS is a different story altogether. It is a community vote, and the person involved can only be removed by a community vote. And the voting is apparently not over, but judging by most people's comments, he'll be on it as soon as the voting period is over, and will likely stay on it.

 

The only "joke" about either list is when people put making money or getting "cool books" ahead of dealing with reputable people and enabling those who don't deal reputably.

 

If you don't understand what the two lists are or how they function, it's probably not best to make blanket statements about them.

 

He's being a class clown, mostly. There was a lot of sarcasm in that post.

 

He also might be high

 

High on CGC Boards excitement!

 

[VintageComics]

You're the only one that is hung up on the whole mental health thing.

 

Are you sure about that? Several board members have chosen to tread carefully in case it was real.

 

They're just voting him into the HOS without any drama.

 

I'm not trying to sound cold, but that's not an excuse for his continued pattern of life screw ups. Maybe it's the reason, but it's not an excuse.

 

So we agree? Because that is exactly what I've been saying all along.

 

I think you are having a difficult time separating the two.

 

I've already separated them:

 

Consequences for actions.

Choosing words carefully and remedies for potential illness.

 

Are you sure everyone else is not having trouble separating the two because from what I'm reading that's how it looks.

 

 

[Logan510]

Yeah, it's not like he called scraped off color touch a bindery tear and then claimed it was all a "misunderstanding".