PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Park]

bageebus

this cluster cluck is worse than ebay in protecting nonpaying buyers

 

There are 39 members on the probation list currently assuming I counted correctly. It has been 4+ years since the list was started.

 

There have been thousands upon thousands of transactions in that time.

 

There are 10 members on the Hall of Shame List. They were put there for either large transgressions or multiple transgressions.

 

For something that is not monitored by anyone other than the members here, I would say the odds are much higher than Ebay for a successful transaction.

 

 

[divad]

bageebus

this cluster cluck is worse than ebay in protecting nonpaying buyers

 

There are 39 members on the probation list currently assuming I counted correctly. It has been 4+ years since the list was started.

 

There have been thousands upon thousands of transactions in that time.

 

There are 10 members on the Hall of Shame List. They were put there for either large transgressions or multiple transgressions.

 

For something that is not monitored by anyone other than the members here, I would say the odds are much higher than Ebay for a successful transaction.

 

 

He's referring to the new rules, not the concept.

[PovertyRow]

bageebus

this cluster cluck is worse than ebay in protecting nonpaying buyers

 

There are 39 members on the probation list currently assuming I counted correctly. It has been 4+ years since the list was started.

 

There have been thousands upon thousands of transactions in that time.

 

There are 10 members on the Hall of Shame List. They were put there for either large transgressions or multiple transgressions.

 

For something that is not monitored by anyone other than the members here, I would say the odds are much higher than Ebay for a successful transaction.

 

 

He's referring to the new rules, not the concept.

 

What "new rules" are creating such an unsafe environment?

[Turtle]

I'm afraid I must nominate Gaijin2010 for the probation list. He sent me an offer for an item in my "wedding/honeymoon fundraiser" sale on 7/6/11. I accepted on 7/7/11 and he claimed the book. Admittedly, I was slow in invoicing people as the wedding planning was eating up a lot of spare time during that month. He was invoiced on 7/19/11.

 

I the PM on 7/29/11 (10 days later).

 

The next day (the 30th) he PM's me, apologizes for the delay, and tells me I'd have payment on Friday (which would be 8/5/11).

 

I the PM on 8/12/11 (7 days after payment was promised).

 

The next day (the 13th) he PM's me, apologizes again and asks for another week. I send a follow-up PM on the 8/18/11 to ask if we're still on schedule for payment. No response.

 

I the PM on 8/28/11 (10 days after my previous PM).

 

Two days later (the 30th) he PM's me, apologizes again, and asks for more time, although no firm date is given this time. He keeps telling me he still wants the book. This time (on 9/2/11), I told him I'd need a non-refundable deposit as well as a firm payment date. The PM was read soon after and as of yet, I've received no response.

 

So being lenient and giving the start date of the transaction as the invoice date of 7/19/11, it's been over 2 months since I should have been paid. I'm already married and I went on my honeymoon over a month ago. So much for a fundraiser.

 

I'll PM him and let him know that I posted this here. I'll give it a day or so to see if he suggests a resolution. In the mean time, let me know what you think. Thanks.

[Turtle]

Well me. It turns out Gaijin is already on the probation list.

 

I don't feel so bad though since I had him post publicly in my thread that he'd take a book and no one else called him out either. He's kinda flying under the radar, I guess.

 

I don't sell to probies and had I known he was on the list, I never would have agreed to the sale. My question now is this: I agreed to the sale and he seems to be blowing off his end of the deal. I'd prefer to not do business with him. Would I have the backing of the board if I told the guy that the transaction is no longer valid or should I hold up my end of the deal should he decide to come through and pay for it? Thoughts?

[Bosco685]

Well me. It turns out Gaijin is already on the probation list.

 

[dopy02]

What "new rules" are creating such an unsafe environment?

 

the environment is not unsafe

 

 

 

[PovertyRow]

What "new rules" are creating such an unsafe environment?

 

the environment is not unsafe

 

 

 

Sorry - I must have misinterpeted "this cluster cluck is worse than ebay in protecting nonpaying buyers"

[dopy02]

What "new rules" are creating such an unsafe environment?

 

the environment is not unsafe

 

 

 

Sorry - I must have misinterpeted "this cluster cluck is worse than ebay in protecting nonpaying buyers"

 

OLD SCHOOL

1.I list a book

2.you post the I take it

3.I send you my address and paypal addy

4.30 days later I don't have my money, bang, you're on this list

 

[Shark]

What "new rules" are creating such an unsafe environment?

 

the environment is not unsafe

 

 

 

Sorry - I must have misinterpeted "this cluster cluck is worse than ebay in protecting nonpaying buyers"

 

OLD SCHOOL

1.I list a book

2.you post the I take it

3.I send you my address and paypal addy

4.30 days later I don't have my money, bang, you're on this list

 

(thumbs u

 

[Turtle]

 

I don't sell to probies and had I known he was on the list, I never would have agreed to the sale. My question now is this: I agreed to the sale and he seems to be blowing off his end of the deal. I'd prefer to not do business with him. Would I have the backing of the board if I told the guy that the transaction is no longer valid or should I hold up my end of the deal should he decide to come through and pay for it? Thoughts?

 

Still looking for input on this one. The whole post is a few posts back, but this is what I'm hoping people will weigh in on. Thanks!

[tortoise]

 

I don't sell to probies and had I known he was on the list, I never would have agreed to the sale. My question now is this: I agreed to the sale and he seems to be blowing off his end of the deal. I'd prefer to not do business with him. Would I have the backing of the board if I told the guy that the transaction is no longer valid or should I hold up my end of the deal should he decide to come through and pay for it? Thoughts?

 

Still looking for input on this one. The whole post is a few posts back, but this is what I'm hoping people will weigh in on. Thanks!

 

You already help up your end of the deal, he "breached the contract" with lack of communication.

I would void the transaction.

[Green]

 

I don't sell to probies and had I known he was on the list, I never would have agreed to the sale. My question now is this: I agreed to the sale and he seems to be blowing off his end of the deal. I'd prefer to not do business with him. Would I have the backing of the board if I told the guy that the transaction is no longer valid or should I hold up my end of the deal should he decide to come through and pay for it? Thoughts?

 

Still looking for input on this one. The whole post is a few posts back, but this is what I'm hoping people will weigh in on. Thanks!

At this point, youve done all you can. Not only would i accept you consider the transaction invalid, i would expect and recommend it.

[PovertyRow]

What "new rules" are creating such an unsafe environment?

 

the environment is not unsafe

 

 

 

Sorry - I must have misinterpeted "this cluster cluck is worse than ebay in protecting nonpaying buyers"

 

OLD SCHOOL

1.I list a book

2.you post the I take it

3.I send you my address and paypal addy

4.30 days later I don't have my money, bang, you're on this list

 

NEW SCHOOL

What's the difference?

[dopy02]

What "new rules" are creating such an unsafe environment?

 

the environment is not unsafe

 

 

 

Sorry - I must have misinterpeted "this cluster cluck is worse than ebay in protecting nonpaying buyers"

 

OLD SCHOOL

1.I list a book

2.you post the I take it

3.I send you my address and paypal addy

4.30 days later I don't have my money, bang, you're on this list

 

NEW SCHOOL

What's the difference?

 

NEW SCHOOL

now I'm a wet nurse

I must contact you several times and beg for my money throughout the 30 days

then I contact you again to say I'm discussing you

then I move you off the hind teat so you can suckle on number one while a consensus is formed

 

[PovertyRow]

NEW SCHOOL

now I'm a wet nurse

I must contact you several times and beg for my money throughout the 30 days

then I contact you again to say I'm discussing you

then I move you off the hind teat so you can suckle on number one while a consensus is formed

 

To put it simply:

 

1) There is no requirement for contacting someone several times. Where did that come from?

 

2) The only required communication is one PM after the 30 days that they are being put on the PL. The accuser then posts the situation here. 72 hours after that PM is sent the accuser is free to add the name to the PL. No "consensus" is needed if the complaint is valid. We don't vote on who goes onto the PL. We only vote for the HOS (and that has always been true as well).

 

3) The only "consensus" being formed is to guard against someone making up a problem, lying about a problem, etc. That has happened in the past, where the accuser validly ends up being the accused.

 

There is nothing in the new scenario, except the requirement for one PM being sent,and off-board transactions that was not like THE OLD SCHOOL.

 

Even in THE OLD SCHOOL days someone could not just come in and add someone to the PL without coming on here and explaining why. One big difference was that it was sometimes like pulling teeth trying to get the info. Or people were not sure what to do or how to do it. Now the procedure is laid out.

 

And it is not just for bad buyers. Works just as well for bad sellers.

 

 

[divad]

What "new rules" are creating such an unsafe environment?

 

the environment is not unsafe

 

 

 

Sorry - I must have misinterpeted "this cluster cluck is worse than ebay in protecting nonpaying buyers"

 

OLD SCHOOL

1.I list a book

2.you post the I take it

3.I send you my address and paypal addy

4.30 days later I don't have my money, bang, you're on this list

 

(thumbs u

 

+1 (thumbs u

[PovertyRow]

What "new rules" are creating such an unsafe environment?

 

the environment is not unsafe

 

 

 

Sorry - I must have misinterpeted "this cluster cluck is worse than ebay in protecting nonpaying buyers"

 

OLD SCHOOL

1.I list a book

2.you post the I take it

3.I send you my address and paypal addy

4.30 days later I don't have my money, bang, you're on this list

 

(thumbs u

 

+1 (thumbs u

 

You +1 this? That is BS and you know it. The new rules are, except for the mandatory PM and extending the PL to board members with bad off-board transactions, essentially the same as the original ones. They are simply spelled out and clarified. Something sorely lacking before. No wonder so many people used to ask how to put someone on the PL.

 

And why do some keep expressing this is a "bad buyer" thread when we have the likes of AlleyBat I will never know. It is equally bad buyers and bad sellers.

 

Tell me what is so different now, David.

 

 

[Snake Eyes]

Agreed Pov...substantively the changes are minor and for the better in terms of clarity. There was plenty of time to either participate in the process or express concern prior to their implementation.

 

Just seems to be griping for the sake of griping here...the concerns expressed over the "wet nursing" in the new system are incorrect by my understanding. I know if I had to nominate someone for the list I certainly would not do all of the superfluous messaging and consensus building in that list :shrug:

[PovertyRow]

Agreed Pov...substantively the changes are minor and for the better in terms of clarity. There was plenty of time to either participate in the process or express concern prior to their implementation.

 

Just seems to be griping for the sake of griping here...the concerns expressed over the "wet nursing" in the new system are incorrect by my understanding. I know if I had to nominate someone for the list I certainly would not do all of the superfluous messaging and consensus building in that list :shrug:

 

Agreed. The PL Llist is essentially a compilation of what had been going on in the PL process since Divad came up with the idea and implemented it. All I did was help compile all of the past experiences into a set of rules so every PL case could be equally applied.

 

The only really new thing is the single PM notification and 72 hour wait after that (which was agreed through consensus). Also extending the PL to board members with bad off-board transactions. Everything else addresses things we have already gone through during the PL discussions. Only difference is they are now in writing. And they also have been agreed upon by consensus.