Flipping, a mortal sin?

[comixcroz]

I don't think there is anything wrong with quoting GPA on raw books. I think most buyers know that GPA is only accurate for slabbed books and most sellers are not going to expect to get anywhere close to GPA on a raw book. As a buyer, I constantly access GPA when buying raw high grade to determine how much I am wiling to pay. If a seller posts a book in 9.2 - I am usually willing to pay in the ball park of 50%-75% of GPA at 9.0 Sometimes more or less depending on the book.

 

I don't care what's quoted, it's all price dependent. Sometimes quoting GPA can be damaging to a raw sale if the asking price is too high(too close to GPA). The buyer will naturally pass on the book because they now know they can get one that's slabbed for a similar price.

[dekeuk]

 

So how do you guys feel about the flipping of water damaged long boxes of bronze books after they have been cherry picked?

 

(if you don't know what I am talking about, read the last weeks worth of posting on the probation thread)

 

 

 

 

[MCMiles]

I know how to grade, and I've got some nice raw books to sell. I'll give you any freaking guarantee you want, including full return privelages. Wanna buy them at GPA?

 

 

I do it all the time. I spent a lot of money on comic books at Heroes. I based all of my purchases on GPA. Most were raw books, but I value my grade as much as I do CGC's, so it's easy. If I valued your grade as much as CGC's then I would have no problem paying GPA for your books if I wanted them.

 

If you're comfortable using GPA in that manner to buy, that's fine, but it's still an invalid use of the data. To argue otherwise is illogical.

 

It's illogical to say the book in a slab is a different book out of the slab, although it is the same book.

 

Just to be clear, I'm not factoring in the obvious grading costs involved. That's not the discussion. Any seller that isn't discounting those fees and offering a guarantee, definitely has no business quoting GPA IMO.

[KingOfRulers]

I know how to grade, and I've got some nice raw books to sell. I'll give you any freaking guarantee you want, including full return privelages. Wanna buy them at GPA?

 

 

I do it all the time. I spent a lot of money on comic books at Heroes. I based all of my purchases on GPA. Most were raw books, but I value my grade as much as I do CGC's, so it's easy. If I valued your grade as much as CGC's then I would have no problem paying GPA for your books if I wanted them.

 

If you're comfortable using GPA in that manner to buy, that's fine, but it's still an invalid use of the data. To argue otherwise is illogical.

 

I would say your know-nothing, self-validating, misuse...perhaps even perversion of logic is illogical.

[trmoore54]

Awesome reponses. Thanks to all who've responded. I'm still mulling over whether selling is my thing of not, I'm just a collector, but I've puchased a few short boxes of mixed drek, with some nuggets thrown in (no, not here, those boxes were long), but I've got some stuff mixed in and forgotten after starting to buy here, and I sure don't want to step on any toes. I'm usually pretty circumspect in my buying, but I've found myself carried away at times, buying things I really wasn't as interested in in hindsight, but they are certainly not without value to someone else. Selling sure seems like a lot of work though.

 

Buying in bulk is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY different than buying a single book...you are not bound by the same code and I'd say in most cases about 99.9% of the time you can sell anything in the box as you see fit...

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I know how to grade, and I've got some nice raw books to sell. I'll give you any freaking guarantee you want, including full return privelages. Wanna buy them at GPA?

 

 

I do it all the time. I spent a lot of money on comic books at Heroes. I based all of my purchases on GPA. Most were raw books, but I value my grade as much as I do CGC's, so it's easy. If I valued your grade as much as CGC's then I would have no problem paying GPA for your books if I wanted them.

 

If you're comfortable using GPA in that manner to buy, that's fine, but it's still an invalid use of the data. To argue otherwise is illogical.

 

I'm not sure I understand the argument.

 

Book A is a slabbed book and in 9.4 it sells for $1,000 when certified, but only $250 or so if raw in an equivalent grade.

 

Book B is a raw copy of the same book, in what I determine to be CGC 9.4 condition once certified. A seller wants $500 for it. Not worth it for a raw copy, but certainly worth it if certified.

 

So, how is using GPA illogical for a book that I'm going to certify, if I am fairly condfident of the future grade?

 

One more thing...GPA is the only real time data point for "actual sales" in the entire hobby. Period. Its a billion times more useful than the OS Guide. I use it almost exclusively for buying decisions, as it gives me a much more accurate look into the current market (slabbed or raw) when it comes to Silver, Bronze, Copper, etc. Doesn't work quite as well as Gold, but that's a different story.

 

 

[COI]

I know how to grade, and I've got some nice raw books to sell. I'll give you any freaking guarantee you want, including full return privelages. Wanna buy them at GPA?

 

 

I do it all the time. I spent a lot of money on comic books at Heroes. I based all of my purchases on GPA. Most were raw books, but I value my grade as much as I do CGC's, so it's easy. If I valued your grade as much as CGC's then I would have no problem paying GPA for your books if I wanted them.

 

I see that you sell a lot of slabs. So regardless of the methods you use to decide what to pay for books, you're getting them slabbed to sell, are you not? If so, you're doing that because it's easier and more profitable to sell them that way, otherwise everything you offered would be raw.

 

GPA is a measurement of the value of the book, within a CGC holder, and at a particular grade. To apply that data to anything else is to misuse it. I'm speaking from a purely logical standpoint, and I'm not attaching any moral or ethical judgements to my statements.

[DarkKnightReturns]

So how do you guys feel about the flipping of water damaged long boxes of bronze books after they have been cherry picked?

 

(if you don't know what I am talking about, read the last weeks worth of posting on the probation thread)

 

 

 

 

that was pretty sad

[trmoore54]

If it were, than there would be no distinction in price. Just as someone might be willing to pay more for a raw book that they believe was graded accurately, than a CGC'd book that was overgraded.

 

Nope. Part of the reason a premium is paid for CGC graded books is that the buyer can turn around the next day and sell the same book for relatively the same price; liquidity. Regardless of how much trust a buyer may place in your grading skills, the liquidity isn't there, so why should the premium asociated with that liquidiy, not to mention the grading fees built into every slab, be paid to you?

 

I'll answer as I am one of the better known culprits when it comes to quoting GPA values for raw books. I always price the book below GPA to accommodate for grading fees and guarantee the return grade of the book.

 

As far as liquidity is concerned, usually (but not always) a person paying strong money for a raw book is buying for their collection and not as worried about liquidity.

 

Still, if the resto and grade are guaranteed and the price point is fair (ie. grading fees are taken into account) it's just a matter of who submits the book to CGC.

 

No?

 

A Guarantee of the CGC grade should ALWAYS accompany the use of GPA data when selling raw books. If a seller doesn't offer that guarantee....they shouldn't be using GPA in their sales thread. (thumbs u

 

The prices for CGC graded comics are the prices for CGC graded comics, period.

 

To use GPA on anything other than graded books is to misuse empirical data in order to suit one's own purposes.

 

The Hammer and Sickle has spoken!

[thehumantorch]

I know how to grade, and I've got some nice raw books to sell. I'll give you any freaking guarantee you want, including full return privelages. Wanna buy them at GPA?

 

 

I do it all the time. I spent a lot of money on comic books at Heroes. I based all of my purchases on GPA. Most were raw books, but I value my grade as much as I do CGC's, so it's easy. If I valued your grade as much as CGC's then I would have no problem paying GPA for your books if I wanted them.

 

If you're comfortable using GPA in that manner to buy, that's fine, but it's still an invalid use of the data. To argue otherwise is illogical.

 

I'm not sure I understand the argument.

 

Book A is a slabbed book and in 9.4 it sells for $1,000 when certified, but only $250 or so if raw in an equivalent grade.

 

Book B is a raw copy of the same book, in what I determine to be CGC 9.4 condition once certified. A seller wants $500 for it. Not worth it for a raw copy, but certainly worth it if certified.

 

So, how is using GPA illogical for a book that I'm going to certify, if I am fairly condfident of the future grade?

 

One more thing...GPA is the only real time data point for "actual sales" in the entire hobby. Period. Its a billion times more useful than the OS Guide. I use it almost exclusively for buying decisions, as it gives me a much more accurate look into the current market (slabbed or raw) when it comes to Silver, Bronze, Copper, etc. Doesn't work quite as well as Gold, but that's a different story.

 

 

You would certainly check GPA to determine how much upside the book has if you were to submit it to CGC. You would happily pay $500 if you were sure it was a $1000 book graded. Would you pay $1000 for a raw book that you could sell for $1000 graded?

 

There is risk buying raw books. You might miss restoration, a hard to spot defect that brings the grade down or something could happen to the book during shipping to and from CGC. A graded book in hand is worth more than a raw book in the bush.

 

Of course there is upside to buying raw books. Sellers do undergrade books and an educated buyer with great grading skills stands to benefit.

[DarkKnightReturns]

I don't see anything wrong with quoting GPA for raws. If buyers don't like it stay away from those sellers. It gives you a fairly accurate understanding of what cgc books in that grade are going for. Adjust your offers likewise if you have a problem.

[Boozad]

I bought a slab here a while back. I'm super picky about "keepers", and when I received it, it just wasn't doing it for me, so I posted it on Ebay starting at 0.01 with no reserve. The book sold for $100 less than I paid. That's how I roll.

 

I suppose that if it had sold for $100 more, that may have made some people angry.

 

(thumbs u

 

I bought a slab not long ago that doesn't sit comfortably with me now I have it. I've been thinking about selling it, but only on eBay with a 99p starting bid. That way I either cut a loss or I profit out of it, which is very doubtful, but if I do profit then it's not by my design.

 

And to be honest I wouldn't care less if I sold a book and somebody flipped it for two reasons. A) I sold the book for the price I was asking for/happy with, the second sale is a seperate deal and is nothing to do with me as the book is no longer mine. B) If the book is worth more, or somebody is willing to pay more, then I should have worked harder to realise a better price for the book.

[MCMiles]

I know how to grade, and I've got some nice raw books to sell. I'll give you any freaking guarantee you want, including full return privelages. Wanna buy them at GPA?

 

 

I do it all the time. I spent a lot of money on comic books at Heroes. I based all of my purchases on GPA. Most were raw books, but I value my grade as much as I do CGC's, so it's easy. If I valued your grade as much as CGC's then I would have no problem paying GPA for your books if I wanted them.

 

I see that you sell a lot of slabs. So regardless of the methods you use to decide what to pay for books, you're getting them slabbed to sell, are you not? If so, you're doing that because it's easier and more profitable to sell them that way, otherwise everything you offered would be raw.

 

GPA is a measurement of the value of the book, within a CGC holder, and at a particular grade. To apply that data to anything else is to misuse it. I'm speaking from a purely logical standpoint, and I'm not attaching any moral or ethical judgements to my statements.

 

I sell a lot of slabs for two reasons.

 

1.) The main reason is because I love to shoot myself in the foot and undergrade. So why offer what may be a 9.4 at 9.2 or 9.0 price wether I'm using GPA or not.

 

2.) It would take hundreds or maybe thousands of sales to establish the "trusted " grade that CGC offers to people. Some people do know me, and gladly pay me GPA for raw books.

 

Those things combined are even more prohibitive. Lets say I'm holding what CGC would call a 9.4. I call it a 9.2 and ask 9.2 GPA, buyers can't trust my grading that don't know me, and only want to pay 9.0 price. I slab because I don't want to sell 9.4s at 9.0 prices, but the more I do sell, the more customers are willing to pay my prices that are based on GPA for raw books. That's because they trust my grade as much as CGC.

 

Yes. CGC graded books are worth more to many based on the security one gets from a third party grader. Once that security issue is overcome, then why would anyone want to place any less value on the exact same book?

[RockMyAmadeus]

I know how to grade, and I've got some nice raw books to sell. I'll give you any freaking guarantee you want, including full return privelages. Wanna buy them at GPA?

 

 

If I agree with the grades

 

 

You just gutted your own argument.

 

There is no QUESTION of "agreeing with the grade" when it comes to CGC and the PREMIUM CGC grade books get over raw books in the same grade. The grade is ALREADY ACCEPTED (except in rare instances) by the buyers willing to pay the premium!

[MCMiles]

At any rate, It's past my bed time, and I don't quote GPA when selling raw books anyway. Hell, I hardly quote it when selling slabs. I still believe a book is a book in or out of the slab. The only premium payed for CGC books is the security of a third party grade. Which can often not be so secure.

 

BTW, I'd probably be happy to pay the raw discounted price for 9.4 and better books if someone can figure out just how much more worthless a raw 9.4 is compared to a slabbed one.

[COI]

Mike and George, all I'm really saying is that graded prices are just that; graded prices. That's it. To apply empircal data on graded books to ungraded books is to misuse that data. When I say "misuse", I'm not attaching any moral or ethical strings to the word; I simply mean that it isn't technically the proper use of that data.

[DarkKnightReturns]

Mike and George, all I'm really saying is that graded prices are just that; graded prices. That's it. To apply empircal data on graded books to ungraded books is to misuse that data. When I say "misuse", I'm not attaching any moral or ethical strings to the word; I simply mean that it isn't technically the proper use of that data.

 

technically yes. I like seeing the GPA just for another reference.

[MCMiles]

Mike and George, all I'm really saying is that graded prices are just that; graded prices. That's it. To apply empircal data on graded books to ungraded books is to misuse that data. When I say "misuse", I'm not attaching any moral or ethical strings to the word; I simply mean that it isn't technically the proper use of that data.

 

I know what you're saying, and I understand the logic. But to assume that the information is only good for slabbed books is to say that no one on the planet except CGC can determine the grade and consequently the value of a book.

I think people deserve a little more credit then that, but hey, It's cool with me. I bought a lot of 9.4 and better books at 9.2 OPG prices last weekend, and I'm thrilled about it.

 

A person that says, "This book clearly is a 9.6, but is not in a $20 CGC slab, therfore, I think it's only worth $35 instead of $350" is a spoon word.

 

 

 

Actually, I'd like to know how come so many sellers think that if a book is slabbed that it's worth double GPA?

 

Really, I've got to go to bed. Good night fellers.

[Aces]

There are some people here who are under a disconnect from reality. Some people, literally, HATE the thought that someone else can profit off of a book.

 

If you hit the "I'll take it" on any book, it is yours. Do with it, what you please.

 

Agree.

But it's very bad form to beg a low-ball price for a book because you "need" it for your collection, then throw it up on eBay at a 50% mark up a week later.

[CKB]

I know how to grade, and I've got some nice raw books to sell. I'll give you any freaking guarantee you want, including full return privelages. Wanna buy them at GPA?

 

 

I do it all the time. I spent a lot of money on comic books at Heroes. I based all of my purchases on GPA. Most were raw books, but I value my grade as much as I do CGC's, so it's easy. If I valued your grade as much as CGC's then I would have no problem paying GPA for your books if I wanted them.

 

I agree with this.

 

Agree all you like. See what you think when you try to sell that book down the road.

 

Valuing your grade as much as CGC??? Paying GPA? This is a fine recipe for losing money.