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Manufactured Gold

Started by MasterChief,

2,576 posts in this topic

ArAich

ArAich

Posted
Posted
The problem is we neither know CGC's grading standards, nor truly what it can or cannot tell with respect to these examples. The best we can do in the darkness that CGC has created is point to specific examples where they either caught or failed to catch particular scenarios.

 

Agreed. I just don't think this was a very good example.

 

Then what is a good example? With disassembly, any unique comic, whether the stars align right or not, are suspect...

 

I'm not convinced CGC can detect disassembly consistently...

 

Jim

 

I'm sure CGC can detect disassembly 100% of the time..it's just when it's skillfully reassembled that makes it difficult to detect..

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ArAich

ArAich

Posted
Posted
I'm sure CGC can detect disassembly 100% of the time..it's just when it's skillfully reassembled that makes it difficult to detect..

 

screwy.gif

 

Jim

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought screwy.gif

 

acclaim.gif

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batman_fan

batman_fan

Posted
Posted

Am I the only one that thinks it is interesting that Steve B hasn't come back on the board to say anything? He has definitely read this thread a few times at least given how he jumped in to throw everyone a little peek at CGCs grading standards before evaporating again.

 

Hey Steve, I know you are reading this. Did your post get your expected response?

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jkrk

jkrk

Posted
Posted

nd any time there is a drive by posting, it is the innocent bystander that gets hurt.

 

Steve gave the CGC response. "It's our football so we make the rules. We are not negotiating the point. I am simply acting as a spokesman for CGC and letting the world know how we stand on the subject. If you have any complaint simply take

your complaints to this site:

 

http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/c/complaints_department.asp

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nearmint

nearmint

Posted
Posted
The problem is we neither know CGC's grading standards, nor truly what it can or cannot tell with respect to these examples. The best we can do in the darkness that CGC has created is point to specific examples where they either caught or failed to catch particular scenarios.

 

Agreed. I just don't think this was a very good example.

 

Then what is a good example? With disassembly, any unique comic, whether the stars align right or not, are suspect...

 

I'm not convinced CGC can detect disassembly consistently...

 

Jim

 

A good example would be a book where someone could actually benefit from the disassembly/assembly. The idea that someone is going to remove a cover from a "Marvel Team-Up" #54, combine it with the guts of a "2001: A Space Oddyssey" #3, have it slabbed, and expect for it to result in something more collectible than the original MTU #54 doesn't make any sense.

 

I have no idea whether CGC can consistently detect disassembly or not. Since Steve didn't address that in his post, I can only assume that it wasn't a determining factor in their decision to not classify disassembly/reassembly as resto.

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awe4one

awe4one

Posted
Posted
A good example would be a book where someone could actually benefit from the disassembly/assembly. The idea that someone is going to remove a cover from a "Marvel Team-Up" #54, combine it with the guts of a "2001: A Space Oddyssey" #3, have it slabbed, and expect for it to result in something more collectible than the original MTU #54 doesn't make any sense.

 

I guess you've missed the prices slabbed variants go for these days...

 

The comic may be authentic...my point is CGC is "guessing" on a comic's status and one that "could" of been manipulated. Yet they won't make a call, or guess, on other types of grading criteria... foreheadslap.gif

 

The addition of a double cover Frank mentioned is another great example...

 

Jim

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Davenport

Davenport

Posted
Posted
Let's throw on another wrench. Why not create "double covers" via disassembly?

Everybody loves those!

 

now THAT's an interesting thought................... 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

Grifters are waaaay ahead of you.

 

SPIDERMAN #1 TRIPLE COVER CGC 9.2,9.2 &9.6 QUALIFIED NR

"3 (TRIPLE COVER)RARE ONLY 1 OF ITS KIND"

 

This pictures are gone, but the CGC label stated "1st 2 covers and 3rd,4th,5th & 6th WRAP MARRIED"

And somebody apparently did a "best offer" for $250. screwy.gif

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FFB

FFB

Posted
Posted
Let's throw on another wrench. Why not create "double covers" via disassembly?

Everybody loves those!

 

now THAT's an interesting thought................... 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Yeah, someone is going to trash a VF/NM copy of a golden age book by removing the cover and attaching it to another VF/NM copy of the same book just to get whatever incremental increase in value a double cover would get? I don't think so.

 

Never mind the fact that if the two covers don't match up EXACTLY in terms of size, registration, cut angle, staple holes, etc., CGC will know what has been done and slap the book in a green label holder. I think it's safe to say that there's little danger of this happening.

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burntboy

burntboy

Posted
Posted
Let's throw on another wrench. Why not create "double covers" via disassembly?

Everybody loves those!

 

now THAT's an interesting thought................... 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Yeah, someone is going to trash a VF/NM copy of a golden age book by removing the cover and attaching it to another VF/NM copy of the same book just to get whatever incremental increase in value a double cover would get? I don't think so.

 

Never mind the fact that if the two covers don't match up EXACTLY in terms of size, registration, cut angle, staple holes, etc., CGC will know what has been done and slap the book in a green label holder. I think it's safe to say that there's little danger of this happening.

 

Scott; please see the above triple cover post. apparently it can and does happen on lesser value books to hype the rarity aspect to naive buyers.............. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

your example, of course, won't work as no one is going to deface one HG GA book in order to create another double cover version of the same book...................... insane.gif

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FFB

FFB

Posted
Posted
Let's throw on another wrench. Why not create "double covers" via disassembly?

Everybody loves those!

 

now THAT's an interesting thought................... 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Yeah, someone is going to trash a VF/NM copy of a golden age book by removing the cover and attaching it to another VF/NM copy of the same book just to get whatever incremental increase in value a double cover would get? I don't think so.

 

Never mind the fact that if the two covers don't match up EXACTLY in terms of size, registration, cut angle, staple holes, etc., CGC will know what has been done and slap the book in a green label holder. I think it's safe to say that there's little danger of this happening.

 

Scott; please see the above triple cover post. apparently it can and does happen on lesser value books to hype the rarity aspect to naive buyers.............. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

your example, of course, won't work as no one is going to deface one HG GA book in order to create another double cover version of the same book...................... insane.gif

 

I am all too familiar with that seller, as his auctions have been highlighted here several times before. Yes, some a-holes try adding covers to some cheap modern books. But as you can see from the auction, CGC catches it and puts those books in a qualified holder with notes. If a buyer is too dumb to tell from the qualified label and explicit label notes that they are being ripped off by this seller, then there's little anyone else can do to help them and I certainly don't feel the need to waste a lot of energy lamenting their troubles.

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Davenport

Davenport

Posted
Posted

 

your example, of course, won't work as no one is going to deface one HG GA book in order to create another double cover version of the same book...................... insane.gif

If a grifter thought a HG GA with Elvis's poop stains on it would tripple it's price, they'd wipe their azz with it and head to market.

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FFB

FFB

Posted
Posted
Unless the donor book was itself incomplete. There are a lot of GA books out there missing centerfolds, etc. frown.gif

 

OK, but what about the fact that the cover has to match up exactly with the other book's cover? And what about the fact that if the interior cover shows any wear inconsistent with the outer cover, it will be obvious what happened?

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Zonker

Zonker

Posted
Posted
Unless the donor book was itself incomplete. There are a lot of GA books out there missing centerfolds, etc. frown.gif

 

OK, but what about the fact that the cover has to match up exactly with the other book's cover? And what about the fact that if the interior cover shows any wear inconsistent with the outer cover, it will be obvious what happened?

 

One can only hope those clues would be enough to detect the tampering? crazy.gif893crossfingers-thumb.gif

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namralos

namralos

Posted
Posted

Staples match up reasonably well on most books made after about 1964. So, you buy a VF/NM copy of X-Men 94 with a coupon out or centerfold missing, and you add that cover to your VG+ complete copy -- putting the VF/NM cover on the inside. The incomplete copy wouldn't fetch much, but a double cover copy with a VF/NM cover WOULD. Sometimes, double cover copies actually SELL for double.

 

This is particularly true, interestingly enough, in middle grades. I suppose if the book is 9.8, having a double cover isn't as interesting as the grade.

 

Check out this double cover of a FN copy of GL 76

http://cgi.ebay.com/GREEN-LANTERN-76-CGC...1QQcmdZViewItem

It sold for about the same as this VF+ copy on Heritage:

http://comics.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=16012&Lot_No=16246&src=pr

A FN 6.0 copy usually sells for under $75, so....

 

the bump from regular to double cover was significant.

 

Remember those unused Atlas covers from the 50's that wound up attached to books? I'll bet that happens more often than we know, too.

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