Manufactured Gold

[esquirecomics]

NO but I feel there are ways to deal with it more effectively than the burning of crosses on CGC's lawn that some people have resorted to.

 

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts as to what other steps you feel might be advantageous to pursue to effect change.

[Ze-man]

NO but I feel there are ways to deal with it more effectively than the burning of crosses on CGC's lawn that some people have resorted to.

 

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts as to what other steps you feel might be advantageous to pursue to effect change.

 

Me three

 

 

I can see how idle speculation does not really get us anywhere. But there is alot more then idle speculation in this thread. Alot of it may not paint CGC in a kind light, but in then end all this discussion is meant to move the bar forward, not backwards. Sure , some of the discussion could be dialed back a tick or two on the ol' bedside manner, civility meter, but we are a diverse group.

 

And this is a multi headed beast of a subject, there isn't really any "nice" way to say some of these things. Except to just say them.

 

Ze-

[burntboy]

Aside from the Green River books I have, my next largest holding is of Sid's Luncheonette books.

 

They're pretty special.

 

Brad; despite what Scott, Shad or Tim might say, i think you are wise beyond your years....................

 

back on topic once again; at the risk of being branded both dumb and redundant, can someone confirm my understanding that steve is referencing a book that he now knows with certainty has been disassembled and reassembled, and is going on the record as stating that this is NOT resto??? (i mean were not talking about a book that they cannot determine if the disassembly took place or not).

 

i would have bet the ranch that this is an unannounced policy change......no???

[Red Hook]

 

Brad; despite what Scott, Shad or Tim might say, i think you are wise beyond your years....................

 

Riiiiiiiight.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

i would have bet the ranch that this is an unannounced policy change......no???

 

Harry, it would seem apparent in hindsight that this in a long-standing policy of CGC.

 

Please see my rants about the Ewert FF # 3 earlier in this thread. Clearly, the reason he felt comfortable spending $3,700+ for a Qualified book was because he knew all it would take to garner a blue label was a proper reassembly. (The trimming was a different matter entirely).

 

That tells me he was aware of CGC's stance on assembly and reassembly, and that it must've been a policy in force since at least May '05, if not longer.

[shadroch]

Might be a long standing policy ,but it certainly had never before been publicly announced.

I wonder who Dupchak pissed off that he somehow was excluded from the inner circle.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Might be a long standing policy ,but it certainly had never before been publicly announced.

I wonder who Dupchak pissed off that he somehow was excluded from the inner circle.

 

No kidding. The famed "Eastern File Copies" would have been perfect for this latest batch of nonsense.

 

Oh wait, they would've all been found and clearly marked as MARRIED. Sorry.

[burntboy]

Might be a long standing policy ,but it certainly had never before been publicly announced.

I wonder who Dupchak pissed off that he somehow was excluded from the inner circle.

 

Shad; it would actually be VERY interesting to hear what Danny would say about this most recent developement................is he allowed on any websites these days???

[skybolt]

O.K., so what would happen if someone took a HG GA book with rusted staples, disassembled it, and replaced the staples with vintage ones?!

 

The staples are the same size, and would still go into the exact same holes. This manipulation could still have been done before the recent CGC revelation, but at least before people thought that CGC would figure out the book was disassemled and give it a PLOD regardless. Now, all they have to worry about is CGC not being able to detect the difference between very similar vintage staples.

[THE_BEYONDER]

O.K., so what would happen if someone took a HG GA book with rusted staples, disassembled it, and replaced the staples with vintage ones?!

 

The staples are the same size, and would still go into the exact same holes. This manipulation could still have been done before the recent CGC revelation, but at least before people thought that CGC would figure out the book was disassemled and give it a PLOD regardless. Now, all they have to worry about is CGC not being able to detect the difference between very similar vintage staples.

 

This would be considered 'conservation', in that it would be done to prevent rust migration.

[Davenport]

Might be a long standing policy ,but it certainly had never before been publicly announced.

I wonder who Dupchak pissed off that he somehow was excluded from the inner circle.

 

Shad; it would actually be VERY interesting to hear what Danny would say about this most recent developement................is he allowed on any websites these days???

After that Ewert fiasco, before he got the boot, Hammer loaded up an STLcomics thread with his old 2001-03 'I-told-you-so' type posts from CPG's deleted forum. It's very tripy reading for sure, but the Heritage before-and-after links speak for themselves.

Hammer's old CPG Posts on altered blue label books

 

 

Several pages of that stuff....

 

"Wherever the Coin Dealers go, misery soon follows. They singlehanded destroyed their OWN hobby in the 80s and 90s with insider grading, the same guys that were major sellers, owning their own grading services and auction houses (this Heritage/Manning/Parrino/CGC stuff is NOTHING new..believe me), then they turned their attention to baseball cards. I knew a VERY important up and coming, young coin dealer in the 80s that used to say, "We're real scum... once we get in, we milk something for all it's worth, then get out, leaving behind ruination. It's only a matter of time before we get our hooks into comics. They're not valuable enough...yet."

 

And...

 

"Once the Coin dealers/graders DESTROYED their own hobby, much like Galactus destroying worlds to feed his hunger, they turned their attention to cards...F**ked that up with their grading services, and NOW Comics. History repeats."

 

It's interesting reading, but don't give yourself a headache trying to plow through it all.

[OldGuy]

Might be a long standing policy ,but it certainly had never before been publicly announced.

I wonder who Dupchak pissed off that he somehow was excluded from the inner circle.

 

Shad; it would actually be VERY interesting to hear what Danny would say about this most recent developement................is he allowed on any websites these days???

 

He's here.

[FFB]

Aside from the Green River books I have, my next largest holding is of Sid's Luncheonette books.

 

They're pretty special.

 

Brad; despite what Scott, Shad or Tim might say, i think you are wise beyond your years....................

 

How exactly do I fit in this?

[ArAich]

Aside from the Green River books I have, my next largest holding is of Sid's Luncheonette books.

 

They're pretty special.

 

Brad; despite what Scott, Shad or Tim might say, i think you are wise beyond your years....................

 

How exactly do I fit in this?

 

Sideways...with a lot of pressure...

[Ze-man]

A wise old bird wrote me this today. I thought it was relevant

 

This is very twicky. I do not think the book had any retsoraiton done but there was certainly "modificaiton" done. Perhaps, until a better sysrtem comes along, it should be a Qualified. but the situation should definitely be stated on the label.

 

I liked how he used the word "modification." along with qualified.

 

How bout we simply let all things "restoration" fall under the umbrella of "modification" so as to not exclude thoses books who undergo tweaking according to the current loopholes, err.. I mean definition..

 

So why can't WE the consumers change the rules as we go, instead of being told what is acceptable by the few? We have the hobbies best interest in mind rather then what will garner more $$$

 

Letting money dictate policy is not a proven way to arrive at what is best for the public.

 

 

Ze-

[mica]

[ArAich]

We have the hobbies interest in mind rather then what will garner more $$$

 

Don't kid yourself if you think that these two aspects don't run hand-in-hand with a majority of collectors...

[skybolt]

We have the hobbies interest in mind rather then what will garner more $$$

 

Don't kid yourself if you think that these two aspects don't run hand-in-hand with a majority of collectors...

 

There's a big difference between waiting 3 or 4 years for a movie to come out or the character getting popular again to drive up prices vs. manipulating the book yourself to achieve higher grades.

[ArAich]

We have the hobbies interest in mind rather then what will garner more $$$

 

Don't kid yourself if you think that these two aspects don't run hand-in-hand with a majority of collectors...

 

There's a big difference between waiting 3 or 4 years for a movie to come out or the character getting popular again to drive up prices vs. manipulating the book yourself to achieve higher grades.

 

Don't patronize me...it's not becoming of you...

[skybolt]

We have the hobbies interest in mind rather then what will garner more $$$

 

Don't kid yourself if you think that these two aspects don't run hand-in-hand with a majority of collectors...

 

There's a big difference between waiting 3 or 4 years for a movie to come out or the character getting popular again to drive up prices vs. manipulating the book yourself to achieve higher grades.

 

Don't patronize me...it's not becoming of you...