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Manufactured Gold

Started by MasterChief,

2,576 posts in this topic

Ze-man

Ze-man

Posted
Posted
confused.gif

 

Why is what I said confusing?

 

CGC set's it's own policy. Why can't we?

 

Sure what I said was a mini tounge in cheek rant.

 

I know we cannot really set policy I was keeeeding, But it sounds no more silly then watching Sarasota set them for us, with a bias towards making money.

 

Sorry, but that's how I see it.

 

Ze-

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Lazyboy

Lazyboy

Posted
Posted
the real problem here is that this train left the station when CGC first arrived. The immediate acceptance of a third party grading company which (1) set a definition for restored comics when the collecting community had for years debated what constituted restoration and, most importantly, (2) never even published their grading criteria for all to see. Without the set bounderies in place they are free to alter the definition whenever convenient (i.e. easy to do, use or get to, handy).

 

Isn't this the crux of every problem that has arisen?

 

CGC marched into town. The villagers -- blinded by dollar signs -- greeted them with wine and roses and turned over the keys to the kingdom... no questions asked.

 

Several years later we are seeing the blowback of unintended consequences.

 

The collecting community can moan all it wants, but we handed them the sword.

 

It was you! You who supported these people! You who gave them the power to make decisions for the hobby!

While I’ll admit that anyone can make a mistake once, to go on making the same errors month after month seems to me nothing short of deliberate.

You have encouraged these malicious incompetents, who have made your collecting life a shambles.

You have accepted without question their senseless definitions.

You have allowed them to fill your hobby with manipulative and untrustworthy people.

You could have stopped them.

All you had to say was “NO.”

You have no spine. You have no pride.

You are no longer an asset to the hobby.

I will, however, be generous.

You will be granted two months to show me some improvement in your behaviour. If at the end of that time you are still unwilling to make a go of it…

YOU’RE OUT OF THE HOBBY, BANISHED TO THE EWERT ZONE.

 

 

 

That will be all. You may return to your posting.

VGClogo.jpg

 

 

 

This post was (hopefully obviously) pure parody. Please don‘t take offense to it, anybody.

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jkrk

jkrk

Posted
Posted

Dinner was good. Fourty pages are now history. Here are my thoughts to date:

 

1)Heritage-

a)probably screens all the books that come in for a possible upgrade. It is in their interest to purchase books they believe could be upgraded for their own account. They purchase books for the hammer without the 20% vig. What's their downside if they are wrong? Do they send the books out for additional work? Probably the same liklihood as any other dealer would. If there is no upgrade then the books are additional listings for an upcoming auction. Illegal? Probably not. Unethical? Everyone has a view. A capitalistic way of doing business? Makes semse to me.

2)CGC - How come no one mentions that the CGC graders are sitting in the catbird seat when it comes to grading? Does anyone know the books inside and out better than they do? Does anyone other than the graders have an inside track on some books? Conspiracies should start at the source.

3)All winners 1- A beautiful recreation. Is it restoration? Is an All winners 1 in NM-

in a blue label with some work done to the book worth less to a future buyer who had no clue as to the books history? Without Heritage's scans would we have any History? We continue to see that a number of books that have been 'beautified".

This will always be the case. Ewert was merely using one method and now we are being shown others. Since buyers are willing to pay big premiums for the best copies sellers will continue to find ways to produce the best copies.

 

nothing new in this thread so far. I continue to play the numbers. Most of my purchases fall in the $1000-2000 range which allows me to purchase a decent looking book but not a high enough grade for most creative types to waste an afternoon. Perhaps what I truly learned in this thread is that restored are the best buy. They are in such disdain not many will play around and alter the book. What you see is what you are stuck with.

 

Onward to page 41.

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jkrk

jkrk

Posted
Posted

Pages 41-60. The pace slowed quite a bit. What I learned???

 

1)Have your sources call my sources.

2)................................................................... If I havre nothing good to say about someone I've decided...................................

3)Post deleted by JKRK

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adamstrange

adamstrange

Posted
Posted

The rest of us will go the Gold and Silver sections and marvel at the wonderful collections that people who think CGC, while not perfect, is still the best news this hobby has had for collectors, especially new collectors, in a very long time.

 

893scratchchin-thumb.gif Might be true, but do you have any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise?

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Ze-man

Ze-man

Posted
Posted
Pages 41-60. The pace slowed quite a bit. What I learned???

 

1)Have your sources call my sources.

2)................................................................... If I havre nothing good to say about someone I've decided...................................

3)Post deleted by JKRK

 

 

gossip.gif I said 3

 

 

 

 

poke2.gif

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jkrk

jkrk

Posted
Posted

AS they moved into the far turn the pace started to quicken (pgs 61-80).

master Chef proved himself to be the Master sending out the Entry on MM 37 and Sensation 35. In the meantime questions were asked:

 

"Who is the Masked man, Master Chef? What are his motives? "

 

Does it matter? If his facts are correct his identity is superfalous.

Master Chef shook the world again. Will our lives ever be the same?

 

Meanwhile the pressures on CGC grew. Steve Borock felt compelled to respond.

"There is no restoration to be found here.

 

Obviously, someone opened the staples, switched the covers back to their original manufactured positions, put the staples back in their original positions, probably pressed the book, and someone, whether it was the one who did the work or someone who bought it, submitted it. As I have stated before, if nothing was added, CGC does not consider it restoration. There was no restoration (glue, reinforcement, color touch, etc) to be found on this book.

 

One of the OLD ways of pressing books was to disassemble it, soak the pages and cover, dry the pages, re-fold the pages and put it back together. Soaking the cover and pages most of the time would make them look cleaned and is considered restoration (cleaning) by CGC. That is why we have stated that disassembled pressing is not something that should be done and we downgrade when books have defects from being pressed incorrectly. When a book is only disassembled AND the staples are not put back correctly the submitter also takes a big chance of getting a qualified grade for staples replaced. Disassembly and reassembly of a comic book, in and of itself, is not considered to be restoration. Almost all of the time that a comic book is disassembled and reassembled, restoration is performed to it because the reason that it was taken apart was to restore it. The disassembled pressing I mention is a primitive and invasive method of pressing that can result in the book receiving a lower grade and that is why anyone should discourage it."

 

Why did Steve respond? Was he better off leaving the questions to the imagination of the posters?

 

Perhaps Jive Mo summarized it best:

 

"

So...let me see if I understand correctly....

 

Disassembly of a comic isn't restoration, but putting it back together in a manner where your disassembly is detectable is going to get you flagged (restored or qualified).

 

um...okay..... "

 

At this point I am reminded of the song from the play Chicago: Perhaps this says it all:

 

Roxie, you got nothing to worry about.

It's all a circus, kid. A three ring circus.

These trials- the wholeworld- all show business.

But kid, you're working with a star, the biggest!

 

(Singing)

Give 'em the old razzle dazzle

Razzle Dazzle 'em

Give 'em an act with lots of flash in it

And the reaction will be passionate

Give 'em the old hocus pocus

Bead and feather 'em

How can they see with sequins in their eyes?

 

What if your hinges all are rusting?

What if, in fact, you're just disgusting?

 

Razzle dazzle 'em

And they;ll never catch wise!

 

Give 'em the old Razzle Dazzle

 

BILLY AND COMPANY

Razzle dazzle 'em

Give 'em a show that's so splendiferous

 

BILLY

Row after row will crow vociferous

 

BILLY AND COMPANY

Give 'em the old flim flam flummox

Fool and fracture 'em

 

BILLY

How can they hear the truth above the roar?

 

BILLY AND COMPANY

Throw 'em a fake and a finagle

They'll never know you're just a bagel,

 

BILLY

Razzle dazzle 'em

And they'll beg you for more!

 

BILLY AND COMPANY

Give 'em the old double whammy

Daze and dizzy 'em

Back since the days of old Methuselah

Everyone loves the big bambooz-a-ler

 

Give 'em the old three ring circus

Stun and stagger 'em

When you're in trouble, go into your dance

 

Though you are stiffer than a girder

They'll let you get away with murder

Razzle dazzle 'em

And you've got a romance

 

COMPANY(The same time as BILLY's)

Give 'em the old

Razzle Dazzle

 

BILLY

Give 'em the old Razzle Dazzle

Razzle dazzle 'em

Show 'em the first rate sorceror you are

Long as you keep 'em way off balance

How can they spot you've got no talent

Razzle Dazzle 'em

 

BILLY AND COMPANY

Razzle Dazzle 'em

Razzle Dazzle 'em

 

And they'll make you a star!

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burntboy

burntboy

Posted
Posted
Aside from the Green River books I have, my next largest holding is of Sid's Luncheonette books.

 

They're pretty special.

 

Brad; despite what Scott, Shad or Tim might say, i think you are wise beyond your years.................... flowerred.gif

 

How exactly do I fit in this? confused.gif

 

Scott; I just picked the FIRST three folks that I know personally, who have "gotten into it" with Brad.......... nothing more........... flowerred.gif

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burntboy

burntboy

Posted
Posted
Has that top staple been replaced too? It looks like the lower one's twisted sister.

 

i've been so focused on the spine roll removal that i never paid any attention to the staples............ 893whatthe.gif

 

now i'm even more confused as CGC had to notice that the staples were thin, shiny, and kinda mangled looking. as such, how could it NOT be in either a Green or Purple label????confused.gif

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underthebigw

underthebigw

Posted
Posted

I hope everyone can bear with me--I'm playing catch up on this thread, so if this point has been raised before, excuse me.

 

On this More Fun 71, everyone is focused on the before and after (which is more than enough to indicate restoration in my mind), instead of what the original damage is from and the fact that this book has been manipulated into a state or condition that it likely was NEVER in, even when new.

 

As far as I can tell, it appears that the book, although originally folded along the split between front and back covers, was originally stapled off center. The resulting creases and breaks in color seem to be from readers folding it back along the line created by the off-center staples. So, now the pressing and likely re-assembly has essentially created an entirely new "spine" and created a book that is now centered and has a "better" spine than when it was new.

 

I'm afraid I'm not articulating this well. In a nutshell, we have the ridiculous situation where an allegedly unrestored book is, at least in one aspect, more perfect than when it was fresh off the newstand. confused-smiley-013.gif

 

How can this not be "Restored"? Absurd.

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